Could you guys offer me some sound advice?

[SCHORN]

Dear Klipsch Forum Members,

I've been frequenting this board for many years now, and I've enjoyed all of your posts and replies no end.

I'm hoping you guys can help me with something.

I own a pair of 93 K-Horns and 87 Belles and run them off the (Got to start somewhere) Adcom GFA-555 Pro, with great results.

Now, I will finally be upgrading from the Adcom but I'm unsure what amp to replace the Adcom with.

My budget will be up to $2000 and I only want to buy the amp used.

I've been thinking about a Mark Levinson 331 for sometime now as a friend of mine runs his K-Horns off one and they sound awesome!!!

I hope you guys can help.

Many Thanks

Schorn.

:bigsmile:]

[Speedball]

Wow, Levinson looks like nice stuff. Check Audiogon for many many many many many many many choices.

1st post in a few years?

Take care.

[SCHORN]

Hi there,

Yeah 1st post for me, got to start somewhere.

I check Audiogon all the time, this is where I got my K-Horns, great site.

I just want to get some feedback on what other members think is the best complimenting amp for these speakers.

Thanks for your reply,

Schorn.

[Speedball]

In the meantime while waiting for someone to respond, how about doing a word SEARCH here at the forum and you might find out what lots of guys use.

I am just a beginner with the RF7's....

[garymd]

Amps only? What about a pre?

I'm partial to tubes and would highly recommend a pair of Craig's VRDs (about $2300-$2400) and a Juicy Music Blueberry Xtreme for a pre if you are into vinyl, Peach if you're not. Many, many Khorn owners are using this combo with fantastic results.

If you've been lurking here, you probably already know that.

Welcome to the nuthouse!

[sunnysal]

welcome to the forum. it wuold be helpful for you to describe a bit about the rest of your current system, your room and your listening tastes. with that information you will get more responses (and more useful repsonses). wamr regards, tony

[SCHORN]

Thanks for your reply.

Yeah amp only as I'm more of an Audiophile DJ so I use a Urei 1620 audio mixer as my pre amp.

I remember reading about the amp you mentioned, I'll look in to it.

Many thanks

Schorn.

[cjgeraci]

Gary brings up a good point. Generally, the preamp has more effect on the overall sonic signature of the speakers (as opposed to the amp).

That being said, lots of tube people in here with large Heritage.

I'll say it first - horns love tubes.......

Can vouch for both Mark and Craig's products that Gary listed.

Carl.

[SCHORN]

OK here goes with my system specs.

1 pair of 93 K-Horns

1 pair of 87 Belle

1 Adcom GFA-555 Pro

1 Urei 1620 mixer pre-amp

2 Technics 1200 MK4 (Japan only) W/Cardas Golden Cross interconects, Audioquest gel mats, Navcom Silencer feet

Grado DJ200i needles and cartridges & Cardas headshell cables.

1 Cardas Golden Cross XLR cable from my Mixer pre-amp to my Adcom power amp.

4 Pairs of Cardas cross speaker cables

1 Triplite power/line conditioner.

My room is quite small at the moment but my wife and I will be moving to a bigger place soon so please son't worry about this I'm just trying to finish off my front end so when I move I can concentrate of the room acoustics and buy more speakers.

[michael hurd]

Professional power amplifiers offer a lot of performance per dollar, you may be interested in auditioing some. There are also models that are fanless, like the Crown K-series, that will reduce the amount of noise in the room.

However, if you can remotely mount a fan-cooled unit, I would not hesitate to try one either. Usually you can rent them from a pro/MI store for a reasonable amount to try before you buy.

[PrestonTom]

Hello Schorn,

I do not hve expereince with the Belles, but I have used K-Horns for the last 9 years. I have tried various power amps, Hafler, Dynaco, Harman Kardon (high current) & a Carver TFM (which I have settled on). What is it that you are dis-satisfied with when using your Adcom. Adcom is a fine amp and capable of delievering a good level of current for the transients.

The beauty of the K-Horns (and other Klipsch) is their sensitivity/efficiency along with the fact that their impedance does not drop that low. These speakers are an easy load for an amplifier. I can not imagine that you have been able to drive your Adcom to clip or distort. The only difficulty with a Klipsch is that their sensitivity wil cause them to reveal any hiss, hum or noise in the circuit. Does your Adcom do that?

If possible, you might want to try yuor friend's amp on your set up (keeping the cabinets in a fixed position in your room and with your components (minus the power amp). Would your K-Horns sound different, if so would they sound better? Comparing across set up (rooms) can be quite mis-leading since there are so many other factors involved.

Any good solid state amp (of sufficient power) may not sound all that different. Any differences will be most noticable if the signal is driven into a range of clipping, and through a K-Horn that would be deafening. If you were using Martin Logans or something else (low senstivity, impedance that drops quite low - a nightmare for any amp) then I would have a different opinion.

The biggest difference is if you dive into the world of tubes. Tube amps will typically sound different ... period. If driven hard & when they distort/clip, it will sound different (between other tube amps and especially when compared to solid state). At moderate levels (and given the efficiency of a Horn this will still be quite loud) the diiferences will be more subtle. Tubes (and this is a generalization, so don't get into a tizzy) tend to have a roll off at the higher frequencies (probably due to an output transformer, depending on the design). This (along with their faster recovery from clipping and the differences in harmonics introduced during distortion) give them a characteristic sound. If the amp is of a sufficient size, you should never hear the distortion. regardless of the level, some folks greatly prefer this characteristic sound.

Careful listening is required when comparing and blind comparison is best. You may find that the differences are not all that great.

Enough said & good luck,

-Tom

[ben.]

Michael's suggestion makes sense, too.

I think a nice tube pre and a prosound amp with a switched power supply (the QSC PLX series has been mentioned in a positive light lately around the web) might be more satisfying than a big dollar tube amp run from the mixer, and should be within your budget.

You've put some thought & attention into your analog rig, and I question whether the phono stage in the mixer is doing it justice... just a thought.

[SCHORN]

Thanks Tom for taking the time to write this response.

Yeah the Adcom is a fine amp and has served me well but I would really like to take the next step and move up to Class A.

I spoke with my friend about the posibility of me trying his amp in my home, it should be no problem.

I have tried a Scott 299B tube amp on my Belles before and it sounded good but like you said it's a different sound.

Thanks again Tom, looks like I'll be doing some blind tests soon.

Reagrds to you and everyone who has taken time to reply.....keep them coming guys lets hear about more amps..

Schorn.

[Colin]

Gee, everything that everybody already said, including horns love tubes, except my preferences, in order of sonic enjoyment, for equipment I heard on big ole horns:

a) Vintage $50-150 twin powered harmon kardon 430 to 930 receiver models

$35 Sonic Impact 5066 integrated class-T digital amplifier

c) $2K Roksan Caspian solid-state British receiver

d) $350-700 NOSvalves refurbished vintage integrated tube amplifiers

e) ASL AQ 1003DT integrated tube amplifier with sub outputs and remote control

f) $700 Blueberry Merlin tube pre-amplifier with

a. $249 ASL Wave 10 monoblocks

b. $500 BottleHead 2A3 Paramour monoblocks (kit), or

c. $2K Blueberry VRD tube amplifier (by reputation here)

g) Nelson Pass majestic $6K, Single-Ended, solid-state Class-A, X250 Stereo Amplifier (February 2002, http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0202/passx250.htm)

I think if the Adcom leaves you wanting more - no surprize to tube lovers - then it is time to check out the $35 Sonic Impact 5066 integrated class-T digital amplifier or tube amplifiers!

[cjgeraci]

As usually, Colin has a pretty good list to start with. Additionally, I know you are focusing on another amp, but just to reiterate Ben's point about tube pres. No matter what amp I put with my Peach (ss or tube), it just makes that amp sound better. A tube pre and solid state amp makes for a great combination. You might also want to check out the highly affordable Teac tripath amp (all of a $100) to give you a taste of the digital amp sound.

Carl.

[SCHORN]

Hi Ben,

I know, the mixer is really taking away from the phonostage but there's no other way to get around this problem as it's essential I have a mixer.

I've tried the Bozak, GLI 5991, Allen & Heath Xone, Urei 1620, etc.....to find the one that sounds best with the K-Horns.

I wish I could get someone to build me a Class A mixer/preamp.

Maybe one day.

Thanks for your reply Ben,

Cheers

Schorn.

[SCHORN]

Hi Carl,

The only reason I don't want to use a Tube pre is because I'm using a mixer/preamp already and I don't want to run the signal through 2 preamps although there's no harm in trying, to hell with it I'll give it a go and see if it makes a difference.

Thanks

Schorn.

[sunnysal]

you did not mention listening tastes BUT, you have basically three paths you can take;

1. Vintage tubes, $2,000 can get you a marantz 8b, a mcintosh 240 or a pair of mc 30s...these will all sound great with your current setup BUT may run out of steam if you have a huge space to fill with loud techno...you can find these on audiogon and ebay...I love tubes with my k-horns and am happy with less than 15 watts, I listen to a lot of rock but, as always, YMMV...

2. Modern tubes (new or slightly used), $2,000 can get you great amps from conrad johnson, manley, juicy music, VAC, BAT, VTL and Rogue all make nice sounding, reliable tube amps...these can be found in flavors up to about 100watts which should be MORE than enough for whatever room and music you listen to...remember horns love tubes...

3. Modern SS amps, for $2,000 (slighlty used) I recommend; Krell, Levinson, Ayre, Classe, Monarchy, Moon, Electrocompaniet and Rowland...these all sound good with horns and you have no tubes to bias or change...

before investing $2k it is worth getting out to dealers and hearing as many of these amps as you can, even if they are not auditioned in your system you can get some idea of what the differences will be.

best of luck,

tony

[SCHORN]

Hey Colin,

Yeap this is the list alright, I'll look in to them all.

I just bought one of those Sonic Impact amps just for fun but I've not hooked it up yet, maybe this weekend.

When I got the SI amp in the mail I couldn't believe how tiny it was, it's going to be interesting.

Thanks again Colin.

Schorn.

[SCHORN]

Hi Tony,

Thanks Man, sorry about not listing my musical tastes but I listen to everything from Ambient, African, Jazz, Latin Jazz, Jazz Funk, Disco, Funk, Soul, Rock, New Wave, Pop, House, etc.....the list goes on.

All the amps you listed sound great, I've got a lot of research to do.

Many Thanks

Schorn.