OT: E'Nuff's Z'Nuff!! I just "fired" my truck!

[picky]

In my best "The Donald" impression: "YOU'RE FIRED!!"

After 10 trips to the dealership this year since March (One trip lasted 3 weeks) I got rid of one of my absolute favorite vehicles that I've owned:

My 2003 Ford Sport Trac

So many unrelated things had gone wrong with it that I could not rely on it's dependibility any longer. It stranded me last weekend and I had it towed to the dealership last Monday. The dealership has not been the problem: The truck has. It even had Ford Engineering stumped over a surging concern I reported. They had a data recorder in the rig twice and still could not figure out what made the throttle surge. I nearly hit a co-workers vehicle pulling into a parking space at the office one morning. So, I "fired" it! I was 2 years into my 5 year purchase and I took my trade-in and ran. It's the 2nd worse vehicle I have ever owned. I did lease a 2001 Sport Trac and it was flawless, which is what had lead me to purchase this one. Luckily, I came out on the good side of the trade-in. I had enough to pay off my loan plus put some down on a different vehicle. I could not use the lemon law because the truck was over a year old.

So, Thursday night, we drove home in this 2005 Ford Freestyle Limited. At least it gets better gas mileage and has all wheel drive, but I know I will miss my truck. This is Ford's last chance with me. If this vehicle let's me down, I'm sorry to say that it will be the last Ford I buy for a while.

[Cal Blacksmith]

Every maker makes a lemon now and then. I had a Nissan that was bad from the first day. They never did figure out why it would pull left after a left turn but would drive straight after a right turn. They changed the axles, brakes, steering gear box, push rods and the problem was still there, not to mention it would eat up a set of high quality tires in about 15,000 miles.

That new Dodge Charger is lookin mighty sweet!

[D-MAN]

Let me see if I have this straight: You had a Ford that was unsatisfactory. So you got another.

DM

[Speedball]

Hey pickey,

Take a look at how similar the wheels are on each of those vehicles.

[Audible Nectar]

I looked underneath the hood of a Ford Focus that the boss bought as a company car. I saw enough under the hood to convince me never to buy one (as if my prior Ford ownership experience wasn't enough - not to mention the in-laws and the bosses prior Ford vehicles). I'd like to see how a mechanic could even consider working on this without being a Ford garage, not to mention a whole lotta plastic where metal should be.

If you get a good Ford, they do OK, but you better be sure it isn't a "defective". When it rains with Fords, it pours.

[SteelerFan]

You must have gotten a lemon. I know we have alot of guys at work who have a Sport Trac and I never hear any complaints. Bad luck. Hope you have great luck with your new one. If it gets better mileage then you are doing us all a favor! They (oil companies, OPEC, etc.) might change their tune if the demand leveled off some.

[colterphoto1]

One of the prices for living in the home of America's automakers. You have to drive an American car if you live in Detroit.

I feel for ya Picky, but look at it this way. That old truck didn't know if it was a car or a truck. Like an SUV, it was neither sport, nor utility. The wagon looks nice and will no doubt haul some burgers home for the PickyGrille.

I have a car and a pickup- a real pickup with 8' bed (yes made in America- it's what I drive when I go to see my buddy Picky), and the Honda gets 32 mpg in great comfort, if not superb style. It's transportation, not a lifestyle.

Michael

[picky]

Cal: Yeah, I understand everyone can make a lemon now and then. It certainly is no fun being the one to end up with one. The first Sport Trac I had leased was flawless. This one's a completely diffferent story.

D-MAN: I suppose sticking with the same brand could have its consequences. But, you don't know all of the background data on that one. I am a former Ford employee who was spun off into the Visteon separation. I still hold a lot of Ford stock and I continue to get the Ford A-Plan pricing: both of which carry some incentive for me to continue to buy their products. In fear of getting burned again, instead of buying another Sport Trac, I bought the Freestyle because it is a different engine and powertrain on a completely different vehicle platform. It has no relation to the Sport Trac. In fact, the Freestyle actually sits on the same Volvo-based platform as the Ford Five Hundred. So, we'll see how things go. I'm also not fond of many of the models offered right now in this vehicle range by either General Motors or Daimler Chrysler.

colterphoto1: And Michael is right: Living where I do, people who buy foreign cars, especially Asian-model vehicles around here tend to endure a lot of ridicule and vandalism from others connected with the U.S. Auto Industry, so I've no intention of becoming a voluntary "target". As wrong as that may be, it's still like the dark ages arouind Detroit when it comes to the Old Buy American mantra. That's just the way it is, and no single person such as me is going to change that. There are plenty of foreign cars that I like, but until I live elsewhere and work outside of the auto industry, there's not one in my future.

Speedball: I agree: in the photos the wheels look very similar. Up close there is a bit more of a difference. And, not that it matters, the Sport Trac's wheels are 16" and the Freestyle's are 18".

Current Sport Trac XLT: (My 2003 had a slightly different hub cap that covered the lugs)

Freestyle Limited: (I Love the Pirelli Tires!)

[skonopa]

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On 8/22/2005 10:40:52 AM picky wrote:

So, Thursday night, we drove home in this 2005 Ford Freestyle Limited. At least it gets better gas mileage and has all wheel drive, but I know I will miss my truck. This is Ford's last chance with me. If this vehicle let's me down, I'm sorry to say that it will be the last Ford I buy for a while.

----------------

My father and I went and test drove one of those. I'll admit, it is a nice vehicle. On that same note, I almost bought myself a Ford 500. However, being cheap that I am when it comes to cars, I ended up with a Saturn ION-2 instead. I did test drive the Focus, but it just felt to small on me. To give credit, the nearly 5 months I've had that Saturn, it has been perfect. No problems whatsoever.

Also, my father is a long-time Ford owner. He currently has four of them right now, a Mustang Cobra GT, a Crown Vic (more my mother's), a Taurus, and a Ranger XLT pickup. The Mustang was being a bit of a bother, but Ford did get it straighted out. Other than that, all of those vehicles have been perfect. That pickup has over 160,000 miles on it and it still looks and runs like the day it was driven home off the showroom floor.

[krustyoldsarge]

Sad to read about your Ford, this is how the imports are eating our lunch.

Let me take this opportunity to rant against the Koreans. I live and work here in Korea and won't buy their cars (or as little as possible of anything else). I'm tired of their ingratitude towards the USA and the way our troops are harassed and abused here, among a thousand other gripes. They have elected two openly anti-US administrations in a row and don't deserve our business.

Just my 2 cents, but I wish our government would slap a 400% tarriff on their autos for blocking our beef.

[Speedball]

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On 8/23/2005 3:02:54 PM skonopa wrote:

I

almost

bought myself a Ford 500. However, being cheap that I am when it comes to cars, I ended up with a Saturn ION-2 instead.

----------------

At a glance the Ford 500 is not too bad looking and the gauges in the center of the Saturn Ion dash is really neat.

[Tom Adams]

That's a nice new ride picky........

BUT WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!!??????

Dude....once you have a pickemup truck, you can never go back! It's Murphy's Law that everything you really want to bring home won't fit in that SUV.

Listen, just buy a cheap import pickemup, keep a car cover over it, and do your haulin' under the cloak of darkness. LOL

Tom

[Audible Nectar]

Here's the part I do not understand about American Automakers:

Brands from Japan (Toyota and Honda, primarily) are considerably more expensive than American counterparts, especially when you look at real world purchase prices. American cars are always loaded with incentives, like employee pricing and rebates. People are willing to pay for quality....and they do. My Toyota dealer, for example, regularly sells Corollas for $16K or more, when the Ford Focus sells for $12-14K (after employee prices and incentives).....and that Toyota dealer is 100 foot away from the Ford dealer. There is a reason for this.

So instead of the American automakers beefing up the quality and engineering of their vehicles (when they have $3000-10000 to play with - the increase in price vs. Japan's imports), they are all about cheapening it up. Make it as low cost as possible, to hopefully gain margin. Like plastic exhaust manifolds. Blecch. Not to mention making sure that the mechanical layout necessitates factory service, especially in old age, when you might elect to have a private mechanic work on the vehicle. When I look at the Ford Focus vs. my Corolla, the Focus looks like it would need a heart surgeon to work on it - it is such a maze under the hood. On the Corolla, you can actually get your arms/hands between the parts - there is room to work on it under the hood.

Well, guess what: when the vehicle fails, and the manufacturer refuses to repair under warranty, what do you expect the customer to do? I expect them to get PO'd and buy something else next time. This has occurred on numerous occasions with people I know. Ford and Chevy have been the worst at warranty work - and when they refuse to fix vehicles that are under warranty, they lose customers. I know at least 6 prior Ford and Chevy owners who have had such problems - and they got fed up. Like coolant leaking into the oil (a common and well documented issue with Chevy V6 engines), or vehicles that they just could not repair. They are ALL Toyota owners now.

If the American automakers cannot figure out how to take care of their customers and build quality product, they deserve to lose business. I think the American automakers CAN build quality products....but they don't need to cheapen the product (or labor) to do so. There is room for them to charge more for vehicles and put in better engineering and quality - but they think price sells vehicles. No, price won't sell me a vehicle - quality will. They are too expensive in any case to think otherwise.

There is a reason I purchase the items that I do: Like Klipsch Heritage loudspeakers, McIntosh amplifiers, and other such vintage items: they were built in an era where quality and longevity were the rule of manufacturing. Nowadays, it's all about building things cheap with most companies, so they can sell you another one sooner. No thanks. That doesn't fly here. That's a sure way to lose my business next time.

[picky]

skonopa: Yeah, I'd heard that those Saturns tend to be pretty reliable vehicles from some friends who've been happy with theirs. Ironically, our other vehicle is also an SVT Cobra Mustang. Here's a picture of my wife's Laser Red '96 nestled in the garage next to our new wagon:

krustyoldsarge: Yes sir, Sarge! Being an ex-regular Navy man I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments. There's no Kia in my future any time soon.

speedball: I agree: Those center stack gauges do look mighty cool. As a former auto interior designer I can tell you that look is two-fold. First, it's just plain different from the norm so people will love it or hate. Second, it's done for a reason: It's a huge cost save that allows the car manufacturer to sell the vehicle worldwide in both left-hand drive (U.S. Style) and right-hand drive (U.K. Style) configurations without having to make two separate instrument panels. Since all of the gauges are in the center stack, it doesn't matter which side the wheel is on! They simply place the passenger-side air bag into which ever side is opposite the wheel. Everything on the dash is symetrical about the center.

Audible Nectar: I certainly do not know everything so, perhaps you can enlighten me? I have heard of plastic INTAKE manifolds, but never plastic EXHAUST manifolds. Who makes those?

Plastic intakes are wonderful because they do not transfer engine heat to the incoming air/fuel mixture as metallic ones do. They also offer a smoother flow than conventional metal manifolds because they do not require additional machining and grinding to smooth them out after the molding process. They also help reduce vehicle weight, thereby increasing fuel economy. Additionally, I want to clarify that I am not suggesting that all Ford vehicles are bad due to my experience with one truck. That one truck was admittably a lemon. Nobody likes getting stuck with one. But, I haven't mentioned the other 10 Ford and Mercury vehicles I have owned that were virtually trouble-free. I have heard horror stories from owners of Fords, General Motors, Chryslers, Nissans, Toyotas and Hondas. Although, I do agree with some of what you are saying, everyone makes a lemon at one time or another.

My own Toyota horror story: after our Celica GT was out of warranty, it needed a starter. It cost $525 plus shipping and labor and I had to wait 6 weeks for it to come in from Japan. That was in 1981....when a rebuilt Chevy starter was $17 bucks! I haven't owned one since. Perhaps, things are different now. But, I wouldn't know. Do I think Toyota makes good cars? They appear to, but I don't know anyone who owns one.

Also: if truth be told, one of the most important benchmark vehicles the American auto industry uses right now for build quality is a German car: The Audi A6. 15 years ago they used Lexus.

[Audible Nectar]

OK, Picky - intake. This explains it better than I can. There are LOADS of these complaints across the web....not to mention that I know of two that this occurred to. I have read from mechanics that we are talking MILLIONS of vehicles here:

Intake manifold issues cause engine damages

When a manufacturer has issues this big and expensive, they will RUN to avoid paying for the repairs. Sold on plastic intake manifolds now? I'm not - at least with these manufacturers.

[Speedball]

There is that Saturn dash!

I never thought about it being made for right or left hand steering, neat idea. I was thinking more along the lines of helping people keep their eyes on the road and it is easier to see versus looking between the steering wheel spokes. Ha, of course with all the cell phones in the cars distracting people nowdays so much for that idea.

My wife bought an 92' SL2 back in 92', had it for 10 years and nothing ever went wrong with it. She now has a co-worker who just dumped hers because of all the trouble, probably just a lemon.

[picky]

Hey, Audible: Read your own article. It says: "1995 to 2001". If it was an issue, it's not any longer. Yes, I'm still sold on the technology. Thanks!.

One added benefit all you tree huggers out there should like: In addition to helping fuel economy and lowering emissions, the plastic intakes are more easily recycled than the metal ones.

Speedball: Most of the automakers including Ford, have experimented with putting all of the instruments in the center stack. Even the popular Mini Cooper has this sort of arrangement, and all for the same reason: Reduced complexity and costs associated with production of left-hand and right-hand models for the world market. I personnaly was involved with one of Ford's center stack protoypes back in 1997. During my time at General Motors, we also applied this approach to center stack instrument placement to an electric car prototype we built back in 1991. That car eventually became the now defunct EV-1, which was rented to people in California in a trial program.

[SteelerFan]

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On 8/24/2005 8:26:53 PM Speedball wrote:

There is that Saturn dash!

I never thought about it being made for right or left hand steering, neat idea. I was thinking more along the lines of helping people keep their eyes on the road and it is easier to see versus looking between the steering wheel spokes. Ha, of course with all the cell phones in the cars distracting people nowdays so much for that idea.

My wife bought an 92' SL2 back in 92', had it for 10 years and nothing ever went wrong with it. She now has a co-worker who just dumped hers because of all the trouble, probably just a lemon.

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Sorry to say the "91" SL2 I had for 9 years was a bit of a lemon also. But I wouldn't say a Saturn is a bad car. After all I think the 91's were the very first year.

[neo33]

"Let me see if I have this straight: You had a Ford that was unsatisfactory. So you got another.

DM"

And your handle is picky...go figure!

[picky]

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On 8/25/2005 5:20:43 PM neo33 wrote:

"Let me see if I have this straight: You had a Ford that was unsatisfactory. So you got another.

DM

"

And your handle is picky...go figure!----------------

For someone who usually prides themself on detail and accuracy, it's unusual for you to miss the fact that I'd already covered that notion in another post above. Tisk-Tisk! Bad Neo!