Deang Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Pushing the envelope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Deang Posted September 1, 2005 Author Share Posted September 1, 2005 K-55-V/Trachorn and the Beyma AK-3 low pass 20uF (high pass) with .90mH (low pass) to the input tap (5) 3rd order tweeter filter - 2uF .15mH 4uF sitting behind a second autoformer 'Tweeterformer' swamped with a 20 ohm resistor - coming off taps 4 and 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Dean, I think the CP25 tweeter shouldn't droop like that. Do you have the equalizer set to cut the highs or something? BTW: I see you found a good use for the old K400 horn! [6] Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 2, 2005 Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 Makes a great mic stand doesn't it? No Eq, all the modules in the Behringer are bypassed. So, is the tweeter response drooping, or do I just have elevated output between 8 and 10kHz? I don't know what's going on there. When I went back and eq'd, I just shaved the top off a bit. The most suprising change in the sound is in the dynamics -- very impressive and RF-sevenish in nature. I'm extremely happy. The low end response is sagging because I pulled the Klipschorn out of the corner to take the measurements. When I pushed it back everything from a 150Hz down climbed up 5dB. Just a bit of adjustment on the eq in the low end -- nothing major. The AK-3 woofer filter was more of just an experiment. I've since removed the 100uF value in parallel with the woofer and I'm just running it straight out now with the 4mH inductor. The Trachorn doesn't respond to changes in the filter like the K-401 does. With the K-401, I have hard opinions on what sounds better. With the Trachorn -- I like the sound with everything I've tried. It seems to be impervious to my kluging. I'm taking her down pretty low, which I can get away with because I'm only running 60wpc. If distortion is elevated, and it probably is -- I can't hear it. The sound is substantially cleaner and more dynamic than what I had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 " So, is the tweeter response drooping, or do I just have elevated output between 8 and 10kHz?" Does it matter? You get the same result either way really. Unless the crossover is rolling off the tweeter higher then it should. I'll throw another monkey in the works..... could be your mic rolling off too. On your RTA is that 1/6 octave? Can it go finer? How many dB per horizontal division there? Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay L Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 is that a behringer mic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 "The AK-3 woofer filter was more of just an experiment. I've since removed the 100uF value in parallel with the woofer and I'm just running it straight out now with the 4mH inductor." Dean, do you have pics of the Behringer w/ and w/o the 100uF cap in your low pass? Also, what are you hearing? I assumed te one you showed is w/ the cap in place. Is that correct? Also, is that the low end with the khorn in the corner? jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 2, 2005 Author Share Posted September 2, 2005 Yes, it's the Behringer microphone. Shawn -- the responses are being shown in 1/3 octave segments. Think I should tighten things up a bit? JC -- with the 100uF value removed, the transients are stronger. With the cap in place, the bass takes on a fuller more rounded nature. Several things happen with the addition or removal of that cap. Impedance changes, the phasing shifts 45 degrees, and the crossover point moves. At this point, I'm convinced the bass horn likes it simple. Anomolies in the frequency response aren't as audible as the loss of slam. I haven't really started to play with the low pass inductor value. Since the Trachorn/K-55 is giving me clean output at 300Hz -- I think I'd like to cut things back a bit more on the low end. I'll do another measurement tonight and take a pic. I'm aware there's about a dozen other things going on that account for what's being revealed by my crude measuring and what I'm hearing. Still, it's giving me a good idea of what's happening when I do things, and it's interesting and entertaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Dean, "the responses are being shown in 1/3 octave segments. Think I should tighten things up a bit?" Are you EQing or just looking for a very general trend of what the K'Horn is doing? If you are EQing and measuring at 1/3 octave keep a light hand on the EQ. Remember... the RTA is just showing an average of that band. for example .... if the 1kHz band had a 1/6 octave 30dB peak and a 1/6 octave 30dB null you would see flat response on a 1/3 octave RTA. And depending upon what you are looking to EQ you need very fine resolution measurements and controls too. For example room problems in the bass. To go after them *well* you need to be measuring at 1hz resolution with EQ having the same precision too. And to really do it you need to be looking in 3d (time) , not 2d like a RTA shows you. The other thing to remember is the finer you are measuring the worse the measurement are going to look. Be ready for that or it will seriously discourage many people who are used to seeing 'sugar coated' measurements. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Dean, I'm wondering if you are finding the Beyma and K55 blending o.k. What I mean, do you find the phenolic diaphragm on the K55 blending o.k. with the titanium of the Beyma? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Deang said: Shawn -- the responses are being shown in 1/3 octave segments. Think I should tighten things up a bit? --------------------------------------- Hey Dean the 3rd menu screen your showing on the RTA is measuring at 1/6 octave. The numbers at the bottom correspond to 1/3 octave but if you look closer you will see measurements in between those frequencies. mike[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Shawn said: And depending upon what you are looking to EQ you need very fine resolution measurements and controls too. For example room problems in the bass. To go after them *well* you need to be measuring at 1hz resolution with EQ having the same precision too. And to really do it you need to be looking in 3d (time) , not 2d like a RTA shows you. ----------------------------------------------- Dean has this ability to make adjustments in 1 to 2Hz increments using the PEQ section of the Behringer at low frequencies as well as small as 1/10 octave bandwith. Unfortunately as Shawn said we can't see or adjust the time factor but still the ability to do such high resolution adjustments with the PEQ with frequency selection and bandwidth is still a great benefit in the low frequencies. mike[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Mike, "Dean has this ability to make adjustments in 1 to 2Hz increments using the PEQ section of the Behringer at low frequencies as well as small as 1/10 octave bandwith" That isn't sharp enough. 1/10 octave bandwidth is 2hz in the first octave, 4hz in the second octave,8hz in the third....etc...etc. I mean the Q of the filter needs to be able to be set sharp enough to literally effect all of a single hz in width. That way when you target the tight room resonance issues you aren't effecting more then just the resonance. Not much offers filters this sharp. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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