Help!! Avia audio klipsch setup Issues!!

[gedwyn@mpinet.net]

I have the following. Yamaha RXV3000, RF7's,RC7

,RS7 surrounds, RCW5 rear center and two subs.

When calibrating the speakers using avia at the LFE test section, where a signal is sent to each speaker and the LFE at the same time the following happens.

I have all the speakers set to large.

1) main and sub- Sub sounds great

2) center and sub- NO SOUND from SUB

3) RS7 and sub- NO SOUND from SUB

Now when I set the center and surrounds

to small I get plenty of sub sound.

Why is this??

I was under the impression that the center and surrounds (especially the RS7's ) could be set to large. Any advice would be helpful as to what is going on. Thanks in advance!

Paul

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Paul Graber

gedwyn@mpinet.net

[boa12]

geo, this was 1 of my past gripes on the avia disk. though it's a 5.1 mix, they didn't put anything in the LFE channel for the sub tests. so the only way to get sub output is to set the channels to small. though it sounds like your receiver sends low bass from the mains

set to large also to the sub.

so it's avia's fault. guess they're going by thx standards to set all to small & let the sub handle. u could do that & adjust the sub. but then you'll probably need to adjust the sub further when u put those speakers back on large. or u could use the receivers test tones. it probably doesn't have this flaw.

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Klipsch KLF 30 (front)

(2)KLF C7 (front center & rear center)

Cornwall I (rear)

Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer

Marantz SR-8000 receiver

Acurus A200X5 power amp

Sony DVP-C650D 5-disk cd/dvd player

Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv

Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr

Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2100 digital cable box

Monster HTS2500 & HTS1000 powercenters

Boa's Listenin Lounge:

Klipsch RF-3, RC-3

Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver

Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975)

Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3

Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer

Technics SL-1950 turntable/AT LS500 cartridge

Technics dual cassette deck

rock on!

[Wild Blue]

For SURE, you want to set ALL your speakers except the front mains to small. I'm not familiar with the RF-7's exactly, but with them I would even with play with putting them to small and then trying large to see which works better.

Again, though, you want ALL other speakers set to small.

[eq_shadimar]

Paul -

How do you have all the subs setup? If they are hooked up using speaker level outputs and inputs then your results are expected. Why? Because it is part of the Dolby/DTS/THX standards not to send any sound below 80Hz to the surround channels and therefore the test discs do not output lower sounds during the tests.

The fault could also be in your receivers bass management. I have all my speakers set to small with the x-over set to 80Hz. My receiver will then route all ALL bass below 80hz from any channel and the LFE channel to the sub. If I have the speakers set to large then the crossover is only effective for the front mains and the rest of the speakers handle whatever bass is sent to them (which will never be below 80hz if your reciever and soundtrack follow the standards).

In your situation I would set all the speakers to small and run all of your subs off of the subwoofer output on your receiver using y-connectors. I have all my speakers (Cornwalls and Heresys) set to small after trying all various combinations. I find I like that sound the best. You can also search this and other BB's on the topic of Small vs Large. Typically experts suggest setting all to small.

Hope this helps,

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...wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world...

My Home Theater Page

[Guest BobG]

As the RS-7's and RC-7 have solid output into the mid 40's, our suggested setting is "Large".

[eq_shadimar]

I thought I would add this link also. Some good information on the .1 channel and LFE infomration as well.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_2/feature-article-misunderstood-lfe-channel-april-2000.html

Laters,

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...wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world...

My Home Theater Page

[t-man]

BobG,

Uhoh, now you've done it. The debate re-emerges. Even with solid response to 40 hz, you will be giving up everything below 40 if you set center and rear to small (in those channels). By not setting to small, you won't allow your sub to take over the low frequency bass in the rear and center channel info.

Correct??

T-man

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KG 5.5 (mains)

KG 2.2v (center)

KLF-C7 (center in storage)

KG 1 (rears)

KSW-12 (sub)

Denon AVR 681/1601

Toshiba SD-3109 DVD

Kenwood LVD700 LD

Sony CD changer

Sony 27" Trinitron

Sony PLX I

[Steve Phillips]

So why does AVIA work at my house and not at yours?

Denon AVR-3801,LFE + mains,mains large,center large or small,side surrounds large or small=mains⊂=sub,center⊂=sub,sides⊂=sub.

I would think it's somewhere in the set up,but that's my opinion.

Please no one get into that "set everything small"debate,please!!!!I have tried the large small thing and like the way I have it now

By the way,anit no way on this earth I'm gonna set my Horns small.

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Main HT:'77 Klipschorns w/ALKs,

'75 Heresy center,modified with,K-Horn sqauwker & AA network.

KSP-S6 at sides

2 KSP-S6's rear.

Denon AVR-3801

2 Denon POA-2800 200X2

1 driving the Horns

1 driving the bi-wired Heresy center.

2 DIY 12"4ohm subs,Carver A500x 400 watts per ch.feed.

1 12" powered sub(behind the couch)feed from the surrounds pre-outs.

Sony DVP-C650D.

Dishnetwork Echostar 4700 w/DD

JVC S7600U S-VHS

Pioneer CDL-D501 laser

Music in "Direct"only!

DH Labs T-14 speaker wire to the front 3.

Room size;15.5 X 25' opening into dining room.

Old RCA 52"RPTV w/matching cabinets

Bed room HT:

KSB 2.1 mains,SC-1,SS-1's,2 SW 8 II subs.

Cornwall Is for music only

Denon AVR-2800,

Dishnetwork,Sony SLV-975HF VCR,Panasonic DVD-RV31.

27"RCA

[boa12]

steve, when i did the sub set-up on the avia w/ my marantz which had no front+sub or LFE+mains option & i set all speakers to large i got no sub output from any speaker group test.

i think where avia screwed up was not putting the sub output in the LFE channel - the mix derives sub output by requiring setting any certain channel group to small. if u have the mains+LFE feature like your denon, then u would get sub output when the fronts are set to large, but u wouldn't (in theory ) get any sub output when it sweeps to any other channel group set to large.

[T2K]

What if the other channel group speakers played say, to 40 Hz? Why set them small? Would the information in those channels below 40Hz simply not be reproduced by the ^40Hz speakers?And in that case,what if you had center and/or rear subs?Would you still set them small?

Keith

[TVodhanel]

It'a almost always best to set the full range speakers to small. Even if a manufacturer rates them at *X*...when the units are measured by independent sources...the response is often rolling off a full octave above *X*. And even in the RARE instance a speaker can extend to it's rated spec...it can only do so at silly low output levels.

TV

[boa12]

guys i wasn't saying it's best to set speaks large or small to restart that debate. a lot of depends there but tv makes a great point. even if u have the

big non-thx type tower speakers that go lower like i have w/ the klf-30s & steve has w/ da horns it still sounded better w/ all set to small, as long as u have a

capable sub anyway. keith's powered towers wired speaker level are an exception caus the subs are in the speakers.

but like i was griping about before w/ the marantz that

fixed crossover sucks. the problems not large or small

but the fixed crossover. the ideal is to be able to set small but control the high & low crossovers. i have that now w/ the new B&K pre/pro & sure nuff denon has it now on the new 4802. i set all small & drop the high & low cross to 50hz w/ a 12db/octave high & low slope. now the 30s, corns & vel hgs sub all blend together great. puts the 30s & corns to work more than

the fixed 80hz. i'd go to a 40hz cross but have to compensate some for the C7s.

anyway, all i was saying was the avia disk assumes your bass mgmt is set to send low bass from the other channels to the sub one way or the other. if u have your speaks set to large & no mains+sub type option then u get no sub output from the disk because it's a 5.1 format disk but there's nothing in the lfe channel.

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Klipsch KLF 30 (front)

Klipsch KLF C7 (center)

Klipsch Cornwall I (rear)

Klipsch KLF C7 (rear center)

Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer

B&K Reference 30 tuner/preamp/processor

Acurus A200X5 power amp

Marantz MA6100 mono amp (rear center)

Sony DVP-C650D 5-disk cd/dvd player

Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv

Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr

Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2100 digital cable box

Monster HTS2500 & HT200 powercenters

Boa's Listenin Lounge:

Klipsch RF-3, RC-3

Marantz SR-8000 receiver

Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975)

Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3

Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer

Technics SL-1950 turntable/AT LS500 cartridge

Technics dual cassette deck

Monster HTS1000 powercenter

Bedroom:

Sony STR-DE935 receiver

Technics cube speakers

rock on!

[boa12]

keith, to try & better answer your ?s, if u have a sub in the loop speaker level - either powered towers or a seperate sub, then u'd want to set that channel group large.

like i found great 2nd octave producers like the 30s put out well to 40hz. but the problem was w/ my marantz set to large, sub line level, when i spun a 2 channel disk it'd send the same bass info to both the 30s & sub. hence a lot of interference, cancelation.

more bass yes, but very low quality muddy bass.

w/ an adjustable crossover, u can use a line level connect to the sub & still get the big speaks & sub to blend best (quantity & quality) while still sending all the lfe when applicable to the sub.