rf 7 with a 1080 rotel

[FENDEBENDER]

Hi new here

I just purchased some rf 7's for two channel music and to get to the heart of the matter there slightly harsh, lacking bass and some mid range my question is simple how much will the 1080 or possible the 1090

tame these problems i've did all i can as far as speaker placement within reason. []

I am driving them with a 56 txi Elite pioneer and have tried an older yamaha and also tried passive bi amping.

It will have to better than that for me to keep them.

I'lll be using my elite for a pre so it really boils down to how much will the rotels help this speakers.

A. Not noticable

B. A little

C. A lot

D. So much you can use tin cans instead of speakers. []

[whell]

First, read and follow the directions in the owners manual regarding speaker placement.

Second, what did the RF-7's replace? Where these speakers also

harsh and/or lacking bass? Check the sonic characteristics of

your listening room, and correct any deficiencies that might rob you of

bass, or create reflections that might result in the "harsh" sound you

describe.

Did you audition the RF-7's before you bought? Did they sound

bassless and harsh during the audition? If not, then the issue is

likely elsewhere. I'd see if I could correct any issues with

propper placement and gettting the most out of your listening room's

accoustics before spending any more $$$$.

For what its worth, my experience with my RF-7's: smooth and punchy,

with good bass extension. I can easily do without a sub for all

but watching DVD's, and sometimes watch DVD's in stereo w/o the sub,

and still get deep, enjoyable bass! The only harshness I note is

on lousy recordings.

[dragonfyr]

Just to inquire, is this "passive bi-amping" the ingenious(sic) method of running dual interconnects to each driver or the use of a passive(?) crossover to split the signal into discrete pass bands to be amplified by separate amplifiers?

[Frzninvt]

Your money would be better spent focusing on fine tuning the crossover networks with better parts to tame and improve the HF by smoothing it out. It would certainly be more cost effective than spending $1K or more for an amplifier.

If your speakers are brand new give them some time to settle in. Some Pioneer and Yamaha receivers can sound harsh and edgy with Klipsch speakers as a number of people have reported. The Rotel amp will drive them better but it may not take the edge off the high end.

[thirdeye]

In my complete honesty I had the RF-7's for about 6 weeks, trying

everything to get away from the exact problems you are haveing, I

bought 1000.00 in Bass traps, it helps but does not solve, and tamed

them slightly with Very hi-current amplifiers, 100 amps per channel to

be exact, but never found them to get completly balanced... I FORCED my

friend to bring his RF-3's to Go head to head, and the 3's Were far

smoother responce, Way more balanced with excellent bottom end, we

thought what the hell man, we have a far bigger speaker and it should

just add to the sound above the RF-3's right? Well it never ended up

that way, the 7's were a Bigger sounding speaker but nowhere near the

balance the 3's had, so we chalked it up to Burn in, Ran the 7's for

about 3 weeks straight on a music signal and it helped but again the

3's just slaughtered them for the cost difference.

#1- If you want the 7's in your system then the only way we found a fix

to get them close to what you want is a Mcintosh Preamp with 5 band EQ,

and loudness adjustment, and possibly a tube amp to back it up, but if

you have the Mac you can use solid state with good results,

#3- the 35's vs. the 3's are very close, but with a slight edge to the

35's in overall clearity but nothing to really be concerned with. And

well the 35's have a little more tight cabinet finish and in some

opinions probably are prettier overall.

#4- I am not bashing the 7's I really wanted them to work and went on a

lot of advice here from the forum but never could get them to really

make me go WOW when I turned them on, I went with the 35's and for the

money never looked back and really never miss anything about the 7's

and everytime the size of the 35's Shock me with the perfect sound..

#5 In my Opinion the only 2 speakers that I would buy from klipsch in

the current lineup for 2 Channel are the 35's and Yes the K-horns,

which Also beat the 7's by Far in balance and yes have a little bigger

sound then the 35's of course but I could not swing the budget or the have open

corners for now, but bottom line I say go 35's or go all the way to the

K-horns.

#6- I considered the Crossover upgrades and yes they could help a lot I

am sure, but for the money and the hassle I would go with used K-horns..

Never does the horns on the 35's sound Harsh,

they stay very dynamic, very high volume with excellent huge sound.

This is my opinion and sure I will get flack for it, but for those few

that can not make the 7's work out, after doing everything but tearing them

apart and putting in new crossovers maybe Equalize them. Sorry for the long post.

Oh and yes the Placement is absolutly key, possibly the biggest factor

in getting the 7's to sound right in any room, but also the room could

just be the problem... I have the 35's 2ft off the back wall and the

bass is earth shaking, and about 15" off the sidewalls to the back of

the speaker, and 16.5" to the front of the speaker, so a Toe in of 1.5"

if that makes sense, the room is 24ft X 14.5ft, and this is the best I

could get it.

[leok]

RF-7s can be tough in that the top end is very clear and lets you know about any distortion or noise in the system. A system power line filter will reduce rf noise that modulates the audio. Using the spikes (I prefer without the plastic feet) reduces cabinet vibration which modulates the sound. Getting an amp that has low distortion at low power is critical. You may listen loud, but you can hear the low level distortion on these efficient speakers. Many (I think most) ss amps have way too much distortion at low levels making them sound harsh and thin.

Since I suspect you listen at higher volumes than I do, I can't help you with amp suggestions. Hopefully some other on this forum who have successful amp/RF-7 combinations will chime in. My first guess is, to start, you need good electronics (good amp won't help if the preamp is messing things up) and clean power.

RF-7s are very impressive when matched with appropriate electronics.

Leo

[thirdeye]

Well I personally never heard distortion, but they were very forward

sounding or best explanation I can give is "Glare" that is not apparent

in either the 35's or the K-horns with decent amplification, also the

K-horns and 35's can dissapear, but I can definatly point out the 7's

with all of the next to each other behind a curtain, you can just tell

there is a horn in your face and its hard to get past it sometimes. Its

possible though with the extreme efficiency of the 7's

that the sound thinner at lower levels with solid state due to it takes

some decent current to drive dual 10's, and some amps may not produce

that kinda current at the low level... maybe class A or digital amps

help that, but some people may not go the 8watt tube route and never

get that super sweet sound or style. So my simple solution is an eq of

some sort to tame the 7's.

[gibby214]

I added a 1080 about 4 weeks ago. It helped take some of the edge off of my RB-75 , Yamaha RXV1400 reciever combo. I think you would have the same or better results with your RF 7's because they are more demanding for power. That is my opinion. Most people probably could not tell the difference in my setup. But to me it was worth it. $700 b-stock. Good luck.

Pioneer Elite/Klipsch should be a good combo from what I've read. Are your sources good? CD, DVD player.

[thirdeye]

See if you can borrow one to audition.

[leok]

thirdeye,

I believe "glare" IS distortion. It's a collection of additional non-harmonic frequencies added as a result of non-linear (distorted) signal processing. Clean up the signal and the "glare" goes away. As for power, you need as much as you need for volumes you use. I'm generally very happy with the exceptionally clean and natural sound I get using a 3.5W SET on the RF-7s. Many people would prefer to listen at louder levels and require more power.

If one is pushing an amp too hard the amp will distort. With a lot of ss, unfortunately, much of the distortion is at the low end also.

Leo

[thirdeye]

Glare in my case came from the directional character of the horn used

with the pro compression driver, fairly sharp... but I guess it is a

type of acoustical distortion of the 7's yes, Ie. the room, placement

etc.., but definatly was not an

electrical distortion in my case, so my point stands sorry. And No

doubt in the world Tube amps are far more softer clipping and

softer distortion character, and far more forgiving in certain situations, but

some of the best solid state at 50 db or 120 db will not distort the

signal, but it will also not overcome the physical acoustic problems of

a speaker or the room, which I have found first hand in my swapping of

components.

[MrMcGoo]

Getting the RF-7s dialed in is not an easy task, but can yield great results. The most effective tweaks IMO are listed from least expensive to most expensive, but all help greatly:

1. Getting the speaker locations right.

2. Setting the RF-7s as small and letting the subwoofer handle low bass to take part of the load off the receiver and reduce doppler distortion.

3. Upgrade the crossovers by DeanG.

4. Add a high current amp of at least 200 wpc.

5. Use a better processor with better DACs and a lower noise floor.

I have done all of the above and the sound is excellent. I use a Pioneer 59TXi and outboard Sunfire Signature amps. The DeanG mod has to be heard to be appreciated. There is no way that RF-3s or RF-35s can keep up on good source material. On poor recordings, the RF-3s will sound better.

The "glare" that some folks hear is best cured by the use of better electronics and the DeanG crossover mod. The RF-7s are just replicating what they are being fed.

If the above tweaks are not worth the effort/expense, then less sensitive speakers may be the best route. A good amp will be useful for 10 to 20 years with any luck.

Bill

[thirdeye]

Very interesting, depends on the sound you want, but for me 2 channel,

no subs, No surround sound, the 3 series worked better is all I am

saying. Or make it very simple and get a capable preamp with some tone

adjustments, or go the way of expensive crossovers, Cables, room

treatments and everything else to tune them in and hope for the

best. But then again I love Avantgarde Duo's and to

some guys they sound like crap. By the way I have had DeanG

crossovers for my Cornwalls, custom made for me!! But we used the

Hovland Caps and I really never liked the Dry sound with the Cornwalls

in the end, so I guess its the pair of ears on the other end that

matters vs. us all figuring out which equipment is best, Oh well. Its

all about music and fun.

[jpm]

nm

[FENDEBENDER]

Thansk guy for all the info so far..a wealth of knowlege here.

I really don't want to give up at this point if i can make it work.

I don't beleive im hearing distortion i can pause my sources and turn power levels to

max and i don't hear any nosie at all, but of course there could be some with the source.

I guess i'll have to decide on a rotel amp 1080 or 1095 of course if i keep it illhave to try dean mods. By the way does he send you a ready to go pair and then you send him yours.

I would sure like to know if it would take care of it before i took them back tho.

On some other fronts the speakers are getting better as in sound stage depth image etc the bass is still weak in my opinion.

.

[Duke Spinner]

isn't that, ...quite a bit .......

what happened to ...

buy new Speakers ....

ENJOY ...??

Getting the RF-7s dialed in is not an

easy task, but can yield great results. The most effective tweaks IMO

are listed from least expensive to most expensive, but all help greatly:

1. Getting the speaker locations right.

2.

Setting the RF-7s as small and letting the subwoofer handle low bass to

take part of the load off the receiver and reduce doppler distortion.

3. Upgrade the crossovers by DeanG.

4. Add a high current amp of at least 200 wpc.

5. Use a better processor with better DACs and a lower noise floor.

I

have done all of the above and the sound is excellent. I use a Pioneer

59TXi and outboard Sunfire Signature amps. The DeanG mod has to be

heard to be appreciated. There is no way that RF-3s or RF-35s can

keep up on good source material. On poor recordings, the RF-3s will

sound better.

The "glare" that some folks hear is best cured by

the use of better electronics and the DeanG crossover mod. The RF-7s

are just replicating what they are being fed.

If the above

tweaks are not worth the effort/expense, then less sensitive speakers

may be the best route. A good amp will be useful for 10 to 20 years

with any luck.

Bill

[FENDEBENDER]

Well i just ordered a Rotel 1095 for the following reason.

1. It will allow me to purchase a pre amp only later maybe the 1098 because i can use the 5 channel for amplifications.

2. Should match up good the the rf 7 to get the a chance to show what they can do.

3. If the rf 7 don't work out it will be a real good match with the pardigm 100v v3 and may even give me that bigger sound stage.

It should be here late friday if not Monday.

ps bought used from a dealer out of town. I guess this want have a warranty?

I'm hoping to not have any problems from.

Thanks for the help so far i also posted in the ht forum.

[Gliderguy]

May I suggest you visit this Rotel forum?

http://htguide.com/forum/forumdisplay.php4?f=20

You might also do a search on RF7 there. Several posters own Rotel and RF7s and they write as if they like the combo.

I own both the 1095 and the 1090. The 1095 is powering 2 RF5s and a

center channel. The 1090 powers the front RF7s. I will admit to having

a difficult time getting the 7s sorted. But the process is enjoyable.

Edit - I see you are already visiting that forum. Nevermind....

[FENDEBENDER]

Gliderguy

When you switch the 1095 and 1090 around on the rf 7's how much of difference is there to you

and what is the difference other than the obivous 180 more per channel. [] I was told i may be happier with a 1080 or1090 but really wanted and option for surround sound use.

Thanks

[Gliderguy]

That's an interesting question. I have to say the 1095 has a slightly

less warm sound. There is less punch to the bass but it might be

smoother. The highs are similar but the 1095 can be brighter. It's a

nice sound but it lacks control at the volume I like. The 1090 is very

tight, very controlled. The issues I have with the 7s are all position

and room now.

The 7s just about drove me crazy getting a balance between the bass I

like ( punchy without any muddyness) and crisp highs. The horns are so

directional that very small changes

in toe in and toe"up" ( whats the word for this?) has a large effect on

the highs. You would think this has no or little effect on the bass but

in my room it does. A few degrees and the bass goes muddy. A few inches

closer to the back wall and the bass gets smoother. Out a few inches

and I lose the soundstage completely.

It's an ongoing effort getting it "right".

I have noticed that with both the 1095 and the 1090 powered and driving

all 5 speakers I lose some clarity in the 7s. Both amps are plugged

directly into the wall at the same outlet. At one time I also had the

amps plugged into a very popular power conditioner and that did not

work at all. Plugging them directly into the wall made a great

difference.

You are in an interesting position - so many new components. You have your listening and work cut out for you!