$194 EL34 PP amp from china...this is getting hard to resist!

[sunnysal]

http://www.nysound.com/exec/servlet/CategoryServlet?action=productdetail&itemID=yal-2016-01002&formID=0

nysound specializes in chinese electronics, from well knowns like Jolida to unknowns like Yarland...check out the prices of these things!

the only dowside is the shipping costs as much as the amp! they are shipping DHL direct from china...when some dealer finally orders by the container and stocks...watch out!

tony

[RAPTORMAN]

This makes me wonder what kind of profit margin these North American Amp makers have on their products. I'm sure theirs is much much better in quality--but how bad can this Chinese amps be?? []

[codhead]

That looks just like the Sophia Electric EL34 (claimed to be "made" in VA and CA) which sells for $1,499. Wonder if "made" refers to the assembly of $200 worth of Chinese parts?

[Colin]

tubes for $200!!

[Y]

[Mark Hardy]

Well, take a look at some true-life stories from a fellow who calls himself "Soldermizer" (hmm...) at AA:

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=tubes&n=167684&highlight=soldermizer&r=&session=

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=tubediy&n=84676&highlight=soldermizer&r=&session=

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=tubes&n=169024&highlight=soldermizer&r=&session=

And also this from AK (from a fellow who'd been advised by a number of folks to consider another phono preamp than the ASL, but...)

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=47312&highlight=ASL

ASL isn't so bad given that they do have a distribution network in North America. The all-Chinese concerns, though... well, if you have a problem... you have to put it back on the boat.

[sunnysal]

The chinese are improving in QC, until they have service on the ground in the USA it is still a crap shoot for the buyer IMHO. however I was a shanling rep and aurum cantus rep for central america "way back" and I found those products to be excellent, almost never had a problem. cheap tube audio is fun, fun, fun. tony

[NOSValves]

Well when litterally every component in the amp and the amp itself is produced by poor suckers making 25 cents a hour the cost to production drops. Then couple the absolute lack of enviormental controls placed on industry over there and there you go. Every time we spend a dollar on products from countries like China we the consumer are cutting are own throats. Keep supporting countries with this type a standard of living and soon are standard of living will be the same.

I suggest someone that has quality gear buy one and report back what they hear. I bet it sounds like dung.

Craig

[codhead]

Here's the $1,500 Sophia... tell me this ain't related to that $200 Chinese amp!

[codhead]

One more try...

[TBrennan]

Craig----I agree with you.

[Painful Reality]

Here's the $1,500 Sophia... tell me this ain't related to that $200 Chinese amp!

There is a difference, the piece of zebra wood on the cheaper model seems to be made from the left-over of the higher priced model.

Zebra wood is expensive, didn't you know that?

[Colin]

Perhaps this discussion should be in the BS section, for there is no easy solution in the long run:

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

1. Every time we spend a dollar on products from countries like <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />China, the consumer cuts their own throats.

The consumer who buys an inferior American product versus a quality foreign one (and Honda Accords made in Ohio dont count), is cutting their whiskey with water. Their intentions are admirable, but spending more here when better products are made more cheaply abroad is like pissing in the ocean: you can only do it for so long and it doesnt make a drop of difference.

2. Keep supporting countries with this type a standard of living and soon our standard of living will be the same.

If so, then the bleeding is going to go on for a very long time. For the real differences between our economies are not simply going to go away by ignoring the problem.

Typically, a U.S. or Western European factory worker costs an employer $15 to $30 USD per hour. A Chinese factory worker earns the equivalent of less than $1 per hour. If, over the next five years, wages in China increase at a rate of 15 percent annually, while they increase at 3 to 4 percent a year in the United States (a healthy growth rate); then, in 2009, the average hourly wage will still be only $2 in China and $18 to $35 in the industrialized West.

www.bcg.com/news_media/washington_post_stalk.jsp

The CIA uses the purchase power parity (PPP) method in its calculations of Gross National Product [1]. By this measure the People's Republic of China has the second largest economy in the world, at $7.262 trillion (2004 est.) (CIA methodology for PPP).

Yet US GDP MEASURED IN PPP PER CAPITA is at 39,498, (IMF and CIA). The US GDP is 7 times greater than China (#98 out of 191) and third highest in the world. BTW, the EU is #22, at 26,900, while India is #125 at 3,029.

ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL AND THEY ARE NOT the differences in PPP and labor rates will keep the USD far above other currencies for a very long time.

What if the wealthiest economy in the world bought all its goods and materials from home?

Then we would run a huge positive balance of payments, have more currency than we could effectively invest and cause the price of goods here to be much higher than cheaper imports. This practice eventually weakens the USD and lowers our standard of living. Why do you think that countries like Japan and China become so export driven? Increasing their exports drives up their GDP per capita (productivity) and improves their real standard of living.

Running a huge positive balance of payments eventually weakens our dollar and lowers our standard of living. Oh, thats right! That is what you hope to postpone by buying cheaper goods here at home

[6]

P.S. I liked ASLs Wave 8s, but not nOrh's $399 "Class A" Single Ended SE9

Integrated Stereo Tube Amplifier (Thailand)

[:S]

[NOSValves]

Perhaps this discussion should be in the BS section, for there is no easy solution in the long run:

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

1. Every time we spend a dollar on products from countries like <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />China, the consumer cuts their own throats.

The consumer who buys an inferior American product versus a quality foreign one (and Honda Accords made in Ohio dont count), is cutting their whiskey with water. Their intentions are admirable, but spending more here when better products are made more cheaply abroad is like pissing in the ocean: you can only do it for so long and it doesnt make a drop of difference.

2. Keep supporting countries with this type a standard of living and soon our standard of living will be the same.

If so, then the bleeding is going to go on for a very long time. For the real differences between our economies are not simply going to go away by ignoring the problem.

Typically, a U.S. or Western European factory worker costs an employer $15 to $30 USD per hour. A Chinese factory worker earns the equivalent of less than $1 per hour. If, over the next five years, wages in China increase at a rate of 15 percent annually, while they increase at 3 to 4 percent a year in the United States (a healthy growth rate); then, in 2009, the average hourly wage will still be only $2 in China and $18 to $35 in the industrialized West.

www.bcg.com/news_media/washington_post_stalk.jsp

The CIA uses the purchase power parity (PPP) method in its calculations of Gross National Product [1]. By this measure the People's Republic of China has the second largest economy in the world, at $7.262 trillion (2004 est.) (CIA methodology for PPP).

Yet US GDP MEASURED IN PPP PER CAPITA is at 39,498, (IMF and CIA). The US GDP is 7 times greater than China (#98 out of 191) and third highest in the world. BTW, the EU is #22, at 26,900, while India is #125 at 3,029.

ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL AND THEY ARE NOT the differences in PPP and labor rates will keep the USD far above other currencies for a very long time.

What if the wealthiest economy in the world bought all its goods and materials from home?

Then we would run a huge positive balance of payments, have more currency than we could effectively invest and cause the price of goods here to be much higher than cheaper imports. This practice eventually weakens the USD and lowers our standard of living. Why do you think that countries like Japan and China become so export driven? Increasing their exports drives up their GDP per capita (productivity) and improves their real standard of living.

Running a huge positive balance of payments eventually weakens our dollar and lowers our standard of living. Oh, thats right! That is what you hope to postpone by buying cheaper goods here at home

[6]

P.S. I liked ASLs Wave 8s, but not nOrh's $399 "Class A" Single Ended SE9

Integrated Stereo Tube Amplifier (Thailand)

[:S]

Colin,

I wrote a long reply and then thought to myself this is not the place for such discusions. I'll just say your opinion doesn't surprise me. The cheaper the better. Heck they may make Khorns soon...... $200 a pair.

Craig

[D-MAN]

Buying Chinese is a REAL BAD idea.

There are FINITE resources available world-wide and when you've got a burgeoning economy with a population that is what - 100 times (?) the population of the US, guess who wins? If you think that you can compete against that economically, then you are a fool.

Clue: Prepare to become a third world nation.

DM

[sunnysal]

I am sorry now I posted this thread.

since it went political....all I can say is THANK GOD none of you guys are in a position to affect foriegn or economic policy.

the key here is who is on top of the food chain, has always been thay way, for quite a while we could abuse our own citizens in the workplace not any more.

soon we will be like germany, where workers are actually pissed off they have to work 4 days a week for ridiculously high salaries, while german industry is ever weakened.

cheap labor is a fact of life, those that take of advantage of it will prosper those that do not die. too many american companies are missing the boat in the race to adjust to world economic realities, soon we may wake up to a chinese led world economy and it will be our own fault.

amy can close the thread at any time....no talk about audio is likely to resume in this thread,,,,

[dragonfyr]

Well put!

[cwop]

This makes me wonder what kind of profit margin these North American Amp makers have on their products. I'm sure theirs is much much better in quality--but how bad can this Chinese amps be?? []

This product underscores the fact that the 'high end' market here, especially tube gear, is one of the larger ripoffs extant. This doesn't imply that there are not some sonically excellent products out there, just that there are gear manufacturers prepared to take advantage of the audio neurosis. Obviously the market for tubes is extremely small referenced to other home entertainment/audio products......so one would expect to spend a tad more on 'bottles'.....

[intotubes]

jeez, what's wrong with vintage "bottles"? I have less than $200 in my 7591 PP integrated amp that sounds incredibly good. No way would I pay thousands for a new version of an old idea. In fact, vintage is what brought me into the "audiophile" world. Before that I didn't know what a good stereo sounded like - or at leat knew I would never have one.

HA! I found a vintage Fisher and my ears have never been happier. Anyone else forgo the newest tube products for tried and true vintage gear? Just for the economics if not for the sound...

[126mhz]

Well when litterally every component in the amp and the amp itself is produced by poor suckers making 25 cents a hour the cost to production drops. Then couple the absolute lack of enviormental controls placed on industry over there and there you go. Every time we spend a dollar on products from countries like China we the consumer are cutting are own throats. Keep supporting countries with this type a standard of living and soon are standard of living will be the same.

I suggest someone that has quality gear buy one and report back what they hear. I bet it sounds like dung.

Craig

I second every point you have made Craig...

But us Americans, and I count myself as one, just find it difficult to resist. I guess I hope it does sound like "Dung," so we all won't begin to jump on this kind of stuff.

For what it's worth, I have no skills in electornics like Craig does, (and he can attest to how much I've spent with him!) and if a fella is willing to keep his/her eyes open there are some great deals to be had on vintage gear that sounds very nice.

My two centavos.

Bill Woodward

Portland, OR.

[laurenc319]

Perhaps this discussion should be in the BS section, for there is no easy solution in the long run:

1. Every time we spend a dollar on products from countries like China, the consumer cuts their own throats.

The consumer who buys an inferior American product versus a quality foreign one (and Honda Accords made in Ohio

dont count), is cutting their whiskey with water. Their intentions are

admirable, but spending more here when better products are made more

cheaply abroad is like pissing in the ocean: you can only do it for so

long and it doesnt make a drop of difference.

2. Keep supporting countries with this type a standard of living and soon our standard of living will be the same.

If so, then the bleeding is going to go on for a very long time. For the real differences between our economies are not simply going to go away by ignoring the problem.

Typically, a U.S.

or Western European factory worker costs an employer $15 to $30 USD per

hour. A Chinese factory worker earns the equivalent of less than $1 per

hour. If, over the next five years, wages in China increase at a rate of 15 percent annually, while they increase at 3 to 4 percent a year in the United States (a healthy growth rate); then, in 2009, the average hourly wage will still be only $2 in China and $18 to $35 in the industrialized West.

www.bcg.com/news_media/washington_post_stalk.jsp

The CIA uses the purchase power parity (PPP) method in its calculations of Gross National Product [1]. By this measure the People's Republic of China has the second largest economy in the world, at $7.262 trillion (2004 est.) (CIA methodology for PPP).

Yet US GDP MEASURED IN PPP PER CAPITA is at 39,498, (IMF and CIA). The US GDP is 7 times greater than China (#98 out of 191) and third highest in the world. BTW, the EU is #22, at 26,900, while India is #125 at 3,029.

ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL AND THEY ARE NOT the differences in PPP and labor rates will keep the USD far above other currencies for a very long time.

What if the wealthiest economy in the world bought all its goods and materials from home?

Then we would run a huge positive

balance of payments, have more currency than we could effectively

invest and cause the price of goods here to be much higher than cheaper

imports. This practice eventually weakens the USD and lowers our

standard of living. Why do you think that countries like Japan and China

become so export driven? Increasing their exports drives up their GDP

per capita (productivity) and improves their real standard of living.

Running a huge positive

balance of payments eventually weakens our dollar and lowers our

standard of living. Oh, thats right! That is what you hope to postpone

by buying cheaper goods here at home

[6]

P.S. I liked ASLs Wave 8s, but not nOrh's $399 "Class A" Single Ended SE9

Integrated Stereo Tube Amplifier (Thailand)

[:S]

Hi,

Tell me the same thing when you lose your job because of cheaper imports !

Larry