Introduction

[Hornfan]

Hi all, I just signed up today. I've been a Klipsch fan since about 5yrs old when I heard my first set of K-horns. I currently have a complete R(x)-3 II SS setup but mainly use the RF-3 II's on most all of my many vintage 2 channel setups. I might add that I am also a big fan of Altec and JBL. While I am familiar with the Heritage line up I'm sure there is more that I can learn and desire to before I commit to the purchase of any one particular model. Looking forward to future interaction with all of you.

HF

[colterphoto1]

Congrats on your setup and welcome to the madness. I just moved some gear around and now have a proud pair of Maple RB3II's as my bedroom rig with Yamaha receiver and 5CD changer. It's so cool lying in bed reading and having the remote to dial down volume or change FM stations on a rainly Sunday afternoon.

Keep on reading, we'll make a Heritage guy out of you yet.

Michael

[Hornfan]

I'm already a Heritage guy. I'm just not fortunate enough to own a pair yet. I'd like to have either LaScala's or Cornwalls. K-horns would be nice too but may be to big for my listening space. Perhaps the one that I know the least about is the Belle. Isn't it the K-horn without the need for corner loading?

HF

[colterphoto1]

The Khorn is the one that DOES require corner loading. imho, that's the beauty of the other models that use pretty much the same drivers. I'm a Cornwall fan, only 15.5" deep with thunderous bass.

Michael

[J.4knee]

Hornfan,

Welcome to the zoo. This is a great place. Occasionally the animals bite but if you keep your shots up to date you should have no problems.[] Seriously this is a great place to learn about this audio obsession, the people here are really great people. You will learn in short order there is no cure for this audio malady you have become afflicted with. You can only feed the phobia.[] Again welcome to the forum. Enjoy!!!

[DrWho]

oh man, lascallas versus cornwalls...be ready for a lot of passionate opinions on the matter []

Might I ask what kind of music you listen to?

If you're doing HT you must end up with a subwoofer, so the lascalla

versus cornwall debate becomes a bit more complicated based on whether

you prefer to listen to 2-channel with or without a sub playing. Your

favorite music will also make a difference so what kind of music do you

listen to?

Just this last weekend Colter and I got to do some straight up

comparisons between the lascala, chorus II and cornwall using a volume

matched speaker selector. We both concluded that we would prefer the

midrange of the chorus combined with the bass of the cornwall. (Yes,

the chorus II midrange sounded better than the lascala...I would

describe it as "more open"). It is always interesting though because

they sounded more alike than different. the lascalas had the least

amount of bass ("where did that bass player and kick drum go?"). The

chorus was right in the middle ("ok, we hear the bass and kick now")

and the cornwall had the most ("man, I can't get enough of that fat

kick sound). The chorus had the best midrange ("man those female vocals

were smooth") followed by the lascalas ("hmmm, sounding a bit

congested, but only in comparison") and then the cornwalls which

sounded rather "small" in comparison - but not as congested as the

lascalas. I think it had more to do with the

folded bass bin of the lascala - perhaps some coloration in that 400Hz

crossover region, I dunno. All the speakers were stock except the

lascala that had upgraded crossovers (which we got to AB two weeks

before...it was like taking the curtain on and off).

So anyways, that is my impression between the various speakers - I'm

obviously a chorus II/cornwall fan, but there are diehard lascala fans

here too. For your HT I would recommend nothing less than 5 identical

speakers all around - it makes a world of difference on so many levels.

[Jeff Matthews]

I have had Cornwalls for about 20 years. They have been so good that I never had any desire to upgrade - feeling I finally got a stereo set-up I could die with.

Okay, 20 years later, I got an impulse to get KHorns. I knew about them back then, but could not afford them. So, I got my KHorns about 2 weeks ago.

Here's my opinion: Cornwalls are still a speaker I would have been happy to die with. For the approx. $700-800 it takes to get a good used pair, it's probably the best model for the bucks. There is a definite distinction between KHorns and Cornwalls. THe KHorns definitely deliver alot more bass. I think there is "some" more mid-range - although there is supposed to be alot more from what comments I see on this forum. I think there probably is, but the increased bass balances it all out.

Oddly, it seems that the "feel" of the KHorns is that they put out the same performance as the Cornwalls (same drivers after all) but with more bass and alot less "effort." The music sounds like it delivers with less effort, although I would imagine the effort must be physically the same since the drivers are the same.

But either one is fine. I just bought the KHorns as more of an impulse.

The Belles are most closely compared to LaScalas. The talk on the forum shows alot of controversy on the LaScalas. Critics say the bass is deficient. I have heard them, and I don't recall my having been anything less than impressed, as with both the KHorns and Cornwalls.

[j-malotky]

Who - colter, sounds like a fun weekend.

FWIW, I always liked the Chorus over the Cornwall, but when I owned

both, I was into Classical and the Chorus was just overall smoother.

The LAS is a funny anamal. I have heard some that sound like crap

and some that sounded amazing. The best ones I have heard were

the LAS2's in Indy this summer. I really liked them.

Seconded by a pair that had cross members in the bass bin tieing in the

side walls.

I was at Boomac's over the weekend listening to his Cornwalls with

DeanG's xovers. They sounded really good, but I still prefer my

Khorns and there "tubby" bass per Dr Who.[]

JM

[SteelerFan]

Welcome HF![]

[Hornfan]

Thanks for the welcome everyone. Just to give you guys a bit of info on myself, I have been collecting vintage gear for about 6 yaers now and have several Pioneer SX recievers a couple of Sansui G's a MAC 1900 a couple of tube amps from a CONN organ and a Dynakit PAS-2 pre and 2 H/K Citation 19 amps w/ a Carver pre plus numerous other pieces that arn't that noteworthy. For speakers I have the Klipsch RF 3 II's, JBL CF 120's, JBL Decade L-26's, AR-4x's, Altec Model 7's, two pairs of Infinity SM 120's and a few more unworthy pairs. The order is about right for my preference as well. I prefer 2 channel listening but HT got things rolling. I like a wide variety of music that does NOT include rap or country. I like the complexities of jazz and classical but am still a bit childish with the hard rock/heavy metal. Perhaps my favorite band to listen to is YELLO (Oh Yeah!) lots of stuff going on at once. I'm looking for a speaker with excellent bottom end and the whole 9 yards after that. While I listen mostly at moderat levels ( my wife would not agree) I do like to crank the crap out of my tunes occasionally. I want my future speakers to remain at high output levels as clear and accurate as they would be at moderate levels. I've rambled long enough. Glad to be hear and look forward to further interaction.

HF

[colterphoto1]

Nice intro there. You're obviously already well aware of some of the minor differences in the sounds of speakers.

Here's my take given your musical tastes (classical/jazz/rock) and listening style (straight 2ch)

LS will not have the bass you need. I'd go for Chorus or Cornwall. If you really dig bass, but generally moderate listening levels, the CW would be the one (CW mid/highs get a bit harsh at loud levels). If you like it quite a bit louder than most, the mid/high of Chorus will hold up better.

If you demand CONCERT listening levels and have 100watts/ch or less, get the LS, cause they will knock your socks off with sheer power.

just my .02, others will disagree and that's okay

Michael

[Hornfan]

Let me shift gears from the Heritage line a bit and ask if the CF lineup might fit the bill? I found a pair of what has been described as "stored from around 1993 and maybe having 2 15"'s and 2 horns. They are not stored where this guy can go look at them real quick and I don't want to let on that he might have a goldmine as the price is dirt cheap. I can't just hop in the car and go see for myself either as they are in a different state, but I do have a contact in that state that could make about 1 1/2 hour drive if I can identify them. I'm thinking either CF or KG line up, any others I could be missing. I'm also hoping for a CF-4 as the specs look outstanding.

HF

[colterphoto1]

I think you'll find double woofers with a single horn between them in the d'appolito configuration. Klipsch's first foray into a purpose-built HT speaker, they are bass reflex with front mounted ports and stand over 44" tall. I had a pair of CF3's here for a while and they were mighty impressive. There are some particular types of distortion with this configuration and they fell out of popularity pretty quickly, maybe doppler or ? But I thought they had a pretty good sound. Asking a single horn to do all the mid and high is a pretty big order though, most older Klipsch are three way designs.

A KG would have either two woofers of same of different size up front or possibly a passive radiator in back, like Forte or Chorus II.

Michael

[Jeff Matthews]

I pretty much would agree with Colter, except I would stick with Cornwall over Chorus in all categories. Also, the LS will knock your socks off as he says, but so will the CWs. It seems most people agree the bass in the CWs is better than the LS. But the mids in the LS (given that they are bigger than CW and the LS has less bass than the CW) means the LS's will knock you harder in the mid-range than the CW.

At this level, though, we're talking shaking the house. If you don't intend to shake your house that much, the CW's are probably more well-rounded.

I'd stay with the Heritage line. My friend bought Chorus some years back, and they did not compare to my older, and prettier, birch CW's.

[colterphoto1]

Thanks Jeff, I was trying not to sound to jaded toward the CW's but I do have 9 of them now. They are my all time fave and I think the best bang for buck in Heritage used lineup.

M

[Jeff Matthews]

There you have it. Colter has 9 CWs. Nobody would buy that many if they weren't that good. Considering Colter has all sorts of LS's, you also can count him as a serious authority on the comparisons. Colter and I both agree the CW's are the best bang for the buck.

Stick w/Heritage. Get 'em used and in good shape - they are MUCH cheaper that way. You should never wind up ruining them, unless you drive them hard with crappy equipment - or you just push them to the brink with a "too killer" amp. But with a good amp, if you ruin them, you probably ruined your ears at the same time.

Also, the older Heritage line is solid wood, which IMO is a huge plus over the more recent veneered MDF versions. Get a little dampness on MDF and see what happens! []

The advice you'll get on this forum is generally good. Good luck! []

[Hornfan]

Thanks Jeff, I was trying not to sound to jaded toward the CW's but I do have 9 of them now. They are my all time fave and I think the best bang for buck in Heritage used lineup.

M

Seems like a lot of bias to the CW's. Now let me fill you in a bit more. I grew up listening to my Dads Altec Santanas and a Sansui AU999 (he still has them) and always thought it was the greatest, until, we went to a stereo shop and had a demo of the K-Horns and Cornwalls ( I thought that jet was coming thru the building). My Uncle bought the CW's on the spot. I was five at the time and it was 1976. I heard them alot and have been wanting those "Big Klipsch's" ever since. Now, where to find a pair?

HF

[Hornfan]

There you have it. Colter has 9 CWs.

Maybe he needs some more room and could hook me up?[]

[PrestonTom]

HF,

Welcome to the journey. You commented that there was a perceived "bias" toward the Cornwalls. Well they are a good speaker, however.......... In my humble opinion the K-Horns are something special.

Yes, there is a difference in price and the placement issues are critical for the K-Horns (although careful placement is important for all speakers).

Take your time to find the the right deal. I was able to get my K-Horns for about $1000 used. This is about half of what they usually retail for (edit: I mean that used ones sell for). The price is mostly determined by finish & condition (model year to a much lesser extent). However, once you get away from e-Bay and instead scour local shops & classifieds you can find a deal (in part because they are so difficult to transport).

The Cornwalls are typically around $600-800. Again, a deal can be found. In fact, thanks to a forum member I was able to get a pair of oiled oak CW 2's for $400 (I am still happy about this one).

If you are patient, have the money, have the corners, then a K-Horn is the ticket. Otherwise, Cornwalls can also sound very nice.

I am not objective, my opinion is very biased - hold out for the K-Horns.....

Good Luck,

-Tom

[Jeff Matthews]

HornFan,

Tom got lucky to find KHorns for $1000. I was happy paying $1650 for mine. He's incorrect on the retail being double the $1000. Retail is somewhere around $7,000, from what I hear.

Anyway, if on a budget for money or space (either one), go CW. If budget or space are not issues, go KHorn. I like the KHorns better, but I will stick to the agreement Colter and I share - that CW is the best bang for the buck. Again, I'll stick to my earlier comment that I would have been happy dying with my CW's but just bought the KHorns cause I had the bucks to satsify my impulse.

CW's come up for sale all the time. Keep watching this site. People will actually help you find them and get them to you - just because they are Klipsch fans and want to help you enjoy the fun. Post a new thread titled "Wanted: Cornwalls within 200 miles of XXXXX." You'll find them. Also, check e-bay and audiogon.com.

Get solid wood (in case they were ever made with MDF). Don't worry what the grill fabric looks like. Re-grilling is easy. At least on mine, all you do is remove the front little trim boards, remove old staples and cloth, and put new cloth and re-staple. Depends on how patient you want to be. If you're patient, good ones will come up that need no work at all. Count on $600-800.

And NEVER..... NEVER have them shipped. You best pick them up, or you could very likely be crying over a 12-pack at the scarred, marred CW's you had held out for with all your anticipation and excitement.