jwc Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 kewl Dean...I got a hot question to ask you a little later about your AA. Gotta clean some dishes. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 11, 2005 Share Posted November 11, 2005 nevermind I didn't notice there was a page 2 and someone already figured it out. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewb Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 Hi Al, I know you don't think much of bypassing but would you do your quick test on a Solen 2.0uf fastcap bypassed with a 0.2uf Hovland? I know you say that bypassing only works at microwave frequencies, let's see it.By the way your quick rough test is the only real data I have seen that shows a difference at higher frequencies. I think you are on to something here.Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted November 12, 2005 Author Share Posted November 12, 2005 Drew, I don't have the caps here to do that test. All I have is Hovland 2.2 uF some 1 uF Hoarmony bypsses and a few odd Fastcaps. AL K., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewb Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 Al, Maybe the 40uf cap would be easier to measure. How about comparing the 39uf fastcap with the 1uf harmony bypass to the 2-20uf solen combination? I would love to do it but I lack the caps and equipment. The data you provide in this forum has been very valuable to me, keep it up. Thanks, Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 12, 2005 Share Posted November 12, 2005 The difference will be in mOhms, and hardly worth fussing over. ESR isn't the only contributing factor of a capacitor's performance or in-circuit behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted November 13, 2005 Author Share Posted November 13, 2005 Drew, I have measured 39+1 uF bypass to 20+20 uF Solen. The difference is small but the 20+20 uF measure slightly better and it costs less! As Dean said though, the difference is small. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Al -- I think maybe you should offer the Hovlands as an option. I'm set up with both a Level I and Level II build. Some people like having the choice of upgrading the parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted November 13, 2005 Author Share Posted November 13, 2005 Dean, I suppose if somebody really wanted Hovlands I would ablige them. It would mean a reduced quantity when I order them and the price would probably have to be "list". It would also mean less accurate matched pairs. Al K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Placement issues and the fact that no one has "matched" ears probably wipes out any real benefit from the matched pairs anyway. Maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 A bit of perspective on hearing. Bob Crites The softest sound you are able to hear at each pitch is recorded on the audiogram. The softest sound you are able to hear is called your threshold. Thresholds of 0-25 dB are considered normal (for adults). The audiogram below demonstrates the different degrees of hearing loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewb Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Thanks AL, I guess a test of a 2+0.2uf bypass would still be interesting. I am interested in the 10k Hz and above area. How are you doing your ESR test? Maybe I can rigg something up. I am always looking to see if I can quantify and prove/disprove some of these common audio assumptions/myths. The search for the truth continues. Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 JBL and Altec Lansing have been bypassing in crossovers since before many here were born. George over at Northcreek, who came from AR -- has built a whole business around the concept. Just something to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted November 13, 2005 Author Share Posted November 13, 2005 Drew, The tests were done with a Stanford Research 720 LCR meter. Here's three combnations: 20+20 uFd Solen FastCaps. 39uf+1 uF Harmony Bypass cap and a 39 uFd FastCap alone. ** 20+20 1Khz: 40.40 uF .0015 Ohms * 10KHz: 40.56 uF .0002 Ohms ** 39+1 1Khz: 40.82 uF .0037 Ohms * 10KHz: 41.40 uF .0026 Ohms ** 39 1Khz: 39.84 uF .0034 Ohms * 10KHz: 40.22 uF .0027 Ohms As I see it, 20+20 uF is the clear winner at both frequencies.Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted November 29, 2005 Author Share Posted November 29, 2005 Guys, +++++ UPDATE +++++ Here's my universal network with 2.2 uF Kimber Kaps in place of the Hovland Musicaps in the tweeter filter. The other 2.2 uF in the squawker filter are Musicaps this time. Again, there is no measurable difference between Musicaps and Kimber Kaps. The tweeter filter shows 0.3 dB loss and 0.5 dB loss through the squawker. This set is promised to a fellow who already has a set in his speakers using Musicaps. He wants these for another set he just bought. I am going to ask him to put THIS set in his old speakers and put the old set in his new speakers. This way he should be able to hear any difference there might be between Kimber Kaps and Hovlands. I will post his impressions if he does it for me. I have also been convined that I should continue to offer the Hovland caps as an option. They cost about $11 each more than the Kimbers, so the option will cost $44 extra. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 It will sound good, but it won't sound the same. I like offering a film and foil as an option in place of a good metallized type. Two 20's instead of 39+1, Kimbers in place of Hovlands -- what else can I talk you into changing? If I could get you to dump the Solens and use Daytons, and get Bob to drop the motor runs -- it would be a perfect world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofu Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 you guys really need to start using these Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted November 30, 2005 Author Share Posted November 30, 2005 Tofu, What the heck are those things, morter shells without the fins? Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Nice terminations -- but not worth that kind of money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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