SlaggBot Posted October 7, 2001 Share Posted October 7, 2001 I'm sure you have all seen my last post, but the speaker setup for home theatre I want to go with is RF-7's Front RC-7's Front and Rear Center RF-5's Surround (possibility that I will get another set of RF-7's for the Surround) Now, using that setup, I ask the question: Should I stick with the Onkyo TX-D989, or go with Denon's AVR-5800? The Onkyo is selling brand new on EBAY for $2100. The Denon is selling at around $2400. Does anyone have a preference? Regardless of price, if you were given the choice of a Denon AVR-5800 or an Onkyo TX-D989 Reciever, which would you choose? Both brands are totally kick-*** so, I'm not totally sure. But if someone can give me arguments either way, I might lean! Also, would it be worth the money to invest gradually in the Audiophile speaker cables like the Monstor Z- series. After all, the RF-7's are the Bi-Wire, so I assume I will have to dish out a substantial amount of money for them anyway, why not go with the better? EBAY is my hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 7, 2001 Share Posted October 7, 2001 Ok here I had the Integra DTR9.1(Onkyo 989 if you will)and the features,built quality and sound quality were all damn good to say the least.This reciever will drive your speakers(and most) speakers with no trouble and sound great while at it. You can also upgrade them when newer formats come out. When I compared the big Denon side by side with the DTR9.1 the Denon won.Won because of POWER,amplifier power that is.Both sound very detailed and overall sound great even on music.The Denon simply has better amplifiers built in. I also prefer the VASY conectivity on the 5800.You have more conectors on the back of the Denon 5800 than any other reciever.You should not run short of conectivity anytime soon. So for the paltry extra I would go for the 5800.Not even a question to me(now after having BOTH side by side). Both are great recievers(some of the very best). TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 7, 2001 Share Posted October 7, 2001 DOH T'was VAST conectivity. Spell Check not activated! TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myram Posted October 7, 2001 Share Posted October 7, 2001 Having done some installs and helping on systems with both Onkyo and Denon receivers, and owning 2 Denon receivers.......I would have to say that Denon is the way to go. They setup alot easier, that is when you get to the on screen menu it is very straight forward and easy to do by following the manual. The Denon also sound very good with Klipsch speakers. They have a nice warm sound that takes away the some of the brightness of the Klipsch speakers. So if you want my opinion, I would get the Denon AVR-5800.....you won't regret it. Good Luck ------------------ Klipsch Quartets - fronts Klipsch Academy - center Klipsch KG 1.5's - rear surrounds Klipsch KG .5's - rear side surrounds Klipsch KSW12 subwoofer Denon AVR-4800 Denon POA-5200 THX Amp (fronts) Sony C-67ES CD Player JVC 36D201 36" TV JVC HR-S3600 SVHS Player JVC XV-M565BK DVD Player Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2100 Digital Cable box Playstation 2 Monster Power HTS-2000 Monster Cable M-series Speaker Cable and subwoofer cable Monster Component, S-Video, and Optical cables RS HT Gold Interconnects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted October 7, 2001 Share Posted October 7, 2001 or, unless you need to have that extra power, u may consider the new denon 4802. has many more new features. probably a 5802 on the near horizon too. problem w/ denon though is no real software or hardware easy upgradability if might u might want that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myram Posted October 7, 2001 Share Posted October 7, 2001 I have read, and heard about an upgrade coming out for the AVR-5800 in the beginning of next year. It will add DPL 2 and a few other goodies with a price tag between $200 and $700. The big downfall, besides the price, is that you have to send Denon your receiver and they install the upgrade and return it to you in 2-3 weeks. So yes......the 4802 is probably a good option to look at if you want the most up to date equipment and still have plenty of power. ------------------ Klipsch Quartets - fronts Klipsch Academy - center Klipsch KG 1.5's - rear surrounds Klipsch KG .5's - rear side surrounds Klipsch KSW12 subwoofer Denon AVR-4800 Denon POA-5200 THX Amp (fronts) Sony C-67ES CD Player JVC 36D201 36" TV JVC HR-S3600 SVHS Player JVC XV-M565BK DVD Player Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2100 Digital Cable box Playstation 2 Monster Power HTS-2000 Monster Cable M-series Speaker Cable and subwoofer cable Monster Component, S-Video, and Optical cables RS HT Gold Interconnects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlaggBot Posted October 7, 2001 Author Share Posted October 7, 2001 Well, compared to all of the reviews I have read, and my initial commitment to at least try my very best to get the 2 sets of RF-7s (4 RF-7's total) I think I am going to get the Denon. Obviously either reciever would be great, but, at 170watts per channel, and 200watts per channel (6ohms), that is just downright sexy. I would totally buy the RF-7's sight unseen. I am trying to locate a shop in San Diego that has the RF-7's. So far I am finding RF-3's. I just moved from Colorado. Out there we had Soundtrack. I could demo my whole potential system at a Soundtrack. I am confident that I cant go wrong with Klipsch. I have heard their top end speakers demo'd before and was totally impressed. Anyway, would this Denon upgrade be merely a software upgrade? Or hardware? What does Dolby Pro Logic II do anyway? Should I care? What other goodies would you get with the upgrade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamer Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 As far as Denon goes IMO they are great. I upgraded to a 4800 a few months back and I have been very happy; and with the 5800 having even more oomph Id say with the speakers you have in mind your going to have one awesome setup. As for the monster cable I upgraded from regular monster cable to the Z2 monster cable and I did notice an improvement it sounded crisper to me with more depth(could all be in the head). I know there is alot of nay sayers out there in regards to speaker wire but if you plan on spending all that money on nice equipment you might as well get you some nice speaker wire they do at LEAST give your system a clean quality appearence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 So far so good.All in favor of Denon,its also good to take alook at the 4802.Its has new interesting features like the sourround modes and user selectable crossover points. The 4802 still would have the "guts" or amp power to drive the Klipsches.The 5800 is a real beast when it comes to the integrated power amps. If you have to send the Denon then its a hardware upgrade.I like to have the extra sourround "modes" but I almost never use them.The only modes I use is STEREO,5 CH STEREO,DD and DTS.That is all Some may find the extra super duper modes interesting,for me the quality comes first,gizmos later. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubis Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 I will throw my vote in. I currently have the following: Denon 5800 RF-7 L/R RC-7 C RS-7 Sides/Back I love the sound. I have heard the Onkyo, while not bad, doesn't sound as good as the Denon IMO. Now, you are doing a little different setup then me (Using towers for surrounds instead of surround speakers) probably because you are more of a music listener (that's what most music listeners do from my experience). However, if you are a total movie listener (like me) then you might want to consider the RS-7's. They are FANTASTIC surrounds. I was also thinking about doing full towers all around until I heard the RS-7's. What I like about them is that they are directional (like monopoles) and enveloping (like di/bipoles) at the same time. Klipsch has a big winner in my book. ------------------ --- ...transmission terminated... Anubis wildfire@kscable.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted October 8, 2001 Share Posted October 8, 2001 sound formats, bass mgmt & such should be a software only upgrade to the dsp chip, the brains of the unit. hardware would be a new dsp/interface and/or port, DACs chips or inputs/outputs. i've heard too u have to send in the 5800. odd though since it has an rs-232 port. maybe it needs an interface or something put in. otherwise, i don't see any need to upgrade any hardware on the 5800. it is equipped. the 4802 also has an rs port & all the new formats & an adjustable crossover already loaded. the 5800 already has the superior dsp & DACs & 7.1 inputs/outputs. if it were loaded w/ all the new formats/processing of the 4802 including an adjustable crossover, the 5800 again is the overall king w/ easier future upgradability. unless for possible budget reasons, forget i mentioned the 4802. This message has been edited by boa12 on 10-11-2001 at 02:49 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossVTaylor Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 SlaggBot, If only all decisions in life were this "tough." I've got a 5800 with my LaScala/Heresy HT setup, and I absolutely love this receiver. It's got great power and a great feature set. But, most importantly, it sounds great. The Aktis remote is pretty disappointing - especially if you're used to a Pronto - but it works okay. I'm running my 5800 into an Acurus 200X3 for the front array, but not because of any lack of power from the 5800. The Acurus was a closeout "impulse" purchase (with which I'm very happy) but I'm very firmly convinced that the 5800 really has all the ooomph that I'd ever need. A very well-built piece. That said, there are concerns with the 5800 too. The biggest is the rumored upgrade. There is, as of yet, no confirmed detail on this upgrade and I'm the first to admit that Denon has been terrible at communicating with their customers. Their customer service and commitment to product support/upgrade is pretty poor. I've got the 5800, a Denon DVD-Audio player and a Denon CD player. I like their products, but I think their support stink. I'm really torn here - I hate supporting (enabling) this behavior. I think the Onkyo is also a great piece of equipment. I recently helped a close friend shop for a receiver (the lenghts I'll go to to help a friend!). He ended up getting the Integra DTR-9.1, with which I'm very impressed. Although I'm really biased towards the 5800, I don't think you could go wrong with either one. Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlaggBot Posted October 9, 2001 Author Share Posted October 9, 2001 Yeah, each day that goes by I sway this way or that. If the Onkyo had 170W/channel instead of 130w/channel, I'd think I'd definately go Onkyo. I hear the customer service is great. Easy upgrades. Nice remote. Two sub outs. And its cheaper to boot. Considering that I plan on getting the SVS Ultra Pairs for subs, I might just get the Onkyo. I wont need that extra bass oomph that the extra 40W would give me. I hear alot of crap for the Denon as far as this "hum" a few people have talked about. Also the poor customer service, and sending your unit off to upgrade really sucks too. I like the looks of the Denon better. GOD, its really tough. It might just come down to the last second as far as which one I choose. I do have about 3 months or so before I am buying it anyway, so I dont know why I am getting all worked up anyway....that is a long ways away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 slag, instead of just the wattage figures (which can vary some also do to measurement methods), look for current. for amps that's the key for power. especially for that bass as it soaks up the current. trouble is it's real difficult to find any specs on it for most receiver/amps. besides actually demoing the unit, u can look at the size/weight of the transformers. marantz makes some great smooth amps though their receivers are somewhat behind the curve to denon & others w/ features &/or upgradability. however they did just come out w/ a new 6.1 receiver w/ the new formats, 192k dacs, etc. the sr7200 for around $700. had to get in the marantz plug. u may want to also look at seperates. i just ordered a B&K reference 30 preamp/processor($2150) & a marantz ma6100 monoblock amp($225) for the 6th channel to go w/ an acurus A200X5 power amp i got off ubid ($889). so total a lil over $3K. as for the specs, some amps rated at 100W may have more power/current than those rated much higher. u can look at how it's rates at 8 omhs vs 4 ohms. if it has twice the wattage at 4 ohms as at 8 ohms, that's should be a very powerful amp. compare those proportions in addition to just wattage rating. best thing get the speakers u like then start demoing receivers/amps w/ them at your place. ------------------ Klipsch KLF 30 (front) Klipsch KLF C7 (center) Klipsch Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Marantz SR-8000 receiver Acurus A200X5 power amp Sony DVP-C650D 5-disk cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2100 digital cable box Monster HTS2500 & HT200 powercenters Boa's Listenin Lounge: Klipsch RF-3, RC-3 Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975) Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3 Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer Technics SL-1950 turntable/AT LS500 cartridge Technics dual cassette deck Monster HTS1000 powercenter rock on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 9, 2001 Share Posted October 9, 2001 Denon and "hum",I noticed some noise when I pair the Denon 3801 or 5800 with an amp like the big Krell or Carver TFM-75.At low volume the hum can be heard,when the volume is up the hum is covered. When I turn the volume all the way down,the him goes away.So its the preamp in the Denons.Its still nothing major,the Onkyo has less hum,I had to listen close to hear it. The two sub outs dont change much,with ONE sub out I can send the signal to several subs with no problem. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bacevedo Posted October 11, 2001 Share Posted October 11, 2001 I'll throw in my .02. First on the 5800 upgrade - I would bet money that the upgrade includes a new front panel door. They will upgrade it to DPLII (new logo), DTS96 (new logo) and THX Ultra 2 (new logo). I can't imagine Denon adding all these features, but leaving the old logos on the front of the receiver. That is probably a reason why the price is a little high and you have to send it in. From what I understand, it is more than a mere software upgrade. I bet when you get it back it is cleaned up inside, too! (dust blown out etc.) It will be like getting a brand new receiver (top of the line) for $500. The Onkyo only had a software upgrade, nothing else, so of course it was cheap and easy to do. I own Denon (3802 AVR and 1800 DVD Changer) and all I can say is I will probably always own Denon. The power, low background noise, sound quality and features make them unbeatable in my book. The 5800 is their flagship, and such has all out top engineering in a receiver. Maybe not as good as seperates, but as close as a receiver can get in my book. If money was not an object for a receiver, the 5800 would be it without a second thought. Secondly, boa, I don't want to rain on your parade, but the 7200 just got reveiwed by S&V (I got mine in the mail yesterday), and to put it bluntly, it did pretty bad. It only measured 29W with all 5 channels driven (27W X 6). The background noise was audible, and the measurments showed that it was a very noisy receiver! Also the sub preout was limited in dynamic range. David Ranada (like the Tom Nousaine of receivers) was left unimpressed. Just wanted to throw that out so you knew about it. In comparison the Denon 3801 was rated at 92W with all channels driven (85 X 6), and was extremely quiet - basically at the theoretical limit. He said that it performed superbly. Bryan ------------------ "... But Honey - I promise this is the last thing I will have to buy for the Home Theater" Mistubishi VS60603 60" RPTV Denon AVR 3802 Receiver Denon DVM 1800 DVD Changer JVC 3600U SVHS VCR RCA DirecTV Satellite Tuner Klipsch RB5 - Mains Klipsch RC3 - Center Klipsch RCW3 - In-wall Surrounds Klipsch KSW12 - Sub (hopefully an RSW12 whenever they come out!) Monster Power Conditioner HTS1000 Acoustic Research Pro Series Interconnects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted October 11, 2001 Share Posted October 11, 2001 thanks for the info bac. i should have mentioned i hadn't seen any reviews nor demoed the 7200. just kinda assumed it had sound quality as good as my sr8000. maybe not the right assumption i do have to really crank the sr8000 to get output. like to 0db reference level to get to around 85db at the listening position. though once it gets there or above it sounds pretty good. warm, smooth & dynamic. i ruled out any new marantz for the main sys & decided on that above seperates route. my sr8000 will be going to the lounge for that stereo listening. ------------------ Klipsch KLF 30 (front) Klipsch KLF C7 (center) Klipsch Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub woofer Marantz SR-8000 receiver Acurus A200X5 power amp Sony DVP-C650D 5-disk cd/dvd player Sony Trinitron 27" stereo tv Toshiba hi-fi stereo vcr Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2100 digital cable box Monster HTS2500 & HT200 powercenters Boa's Listenin Lounge: Klipsch RF-3, RC-3 Sony STR-DE935 a/v receiver Kenwood KR-9600 AM/FM stereo receiver (vintage 1975) Russound AB-2 receiver switch to RF-3 Teac PD-D1200 5-disk cd changer Technics SL-1950 turntable/AT LS500 cartridge Technics dual cassette deck Monster HTS1000 powercenter rock on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RossVTaylor Posted October 11, 2001 Share Posted October 11, 2001 Bryan, Good points about the 5800 upgrade. I'm keeping up-to-date with the rumors on the unofficial Denon AVR-5800 site. There's been mention of a firewire card, new software and a few other things - but no one's mentioned a new door yet. Yet, your points are well taken and make damn good sense. I'd be really surprised if you weren't right on about that. Ross ------------------ "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted October 11, 2001 Share Posted October 11, 2001 Sounds good,I may send my 5800 in for the upgrade(when I decide to disconect all the interconects from it). I hope they add 1394.This should make upgrades a breeze.Why not SCSI while they are at it. LOL TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBB Posted October 12, 2001 Share Posted October 12, 2001 Hey SlaggBot, I just added the new RF-7's and RC-7 to my system that incudes a new (with factory upgrade DTS-ES etc.)TX-DS989 .For now I am using some JBL 3-ways for surround ,some polks for surround rears and a polk 650 sub. I'm going to get a few more speakers and replace the surrounds a pair at a time and another sub for the onkyo. It has plenty of power.Hey it's pushing Klipschs just fine ."ATTENTION PEOPLE OF EARTH !" ha ha. Ilove my music and I love my movies. I'm in home theater nirvana right now.Yes big bucks but a big BANG.Knock your yourself out with the ONKYO .I am. BBB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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