JeffDurbin Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 We purchased a very nice, quite large (3,100sf) home in May and I am doing it up right. I bought some RCW-5s to mount in the dining room walls so we could listen to dinner music. My plan was to route the speaker wire from the dining room across the foyer around my study and through the wall to the family room using the crown molding as a wire run to make the entire thing transparent. I bought 200 feet of CL3 in-wall wire for this (and my main listening room to replace the 18 gauge Monster flat wire I have used so far.) I examined the crown molding yesterday and discovered that it was installed very, very well. There are nails every 12 inches or so and they are at the bottom of it and midway up the molding. This second detail was very surprising. I am guessing they have pieces of wood every 12" mounted to the wall and the molding is mounted to the wood rather than just along the top and bottom edges, which is what I would have done. The nail holes were puttied and stained along with the molding. I used a flat screw driver to separate the molding about 1/16" from the wall and slid some shims in there. BUT, it became clear that the molding was not pulling away from the wall. My wife got concerned and told me to not mess up the molding. She is worried it will break and then it will be a big long involved process to replace it and stain it and make it match the existing stuff. She suggested I run the cable along the walls and I pointed out how tacky that would look. Then she started questioning why I even need speakers in the walls of our dining room. She doesn't understand the implications of having our 'dream home'. Wait until I tell her about the ZON multi-room system! I may have to eBay my RCW-5s but I really don't want to throw in the towel so easily. If I do then I know what's going to happen when acoustic treatment for the family room shows up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Use a "nail set punch" (it's like a punch but with a skinny 1/2 " long probe on the end) and hammer the nails through the wood. Your trim will then fall off. If you are "mechanically challenged" do not attempt. Then fasten the original trim back with new nails in new locations and fill in the old holes. There are also a slug of products that will fasten to the wall and look nice to cover and route the wires. Try the Mcmaster-Carr website for wiremold products. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieHeartKlipsch Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Your wife is correct IMHO. Music should not be played during dinner. Dinner is quality time for husband and wife (and children, if any). I once ate at a friend's house and her dad read the sports section while eating! ! ! It was so rude I've have never forgotten it 'though it was many years ago. . . J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I know this is painfully obvious, but if there is a basement route the cable down and up through the basement. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Your wife is correct IMHO. Music should not be played during dinner. Dinner is quality time for husband and wife (and children, if any). I once ate at a friend's house and her dad read the sports section while eating! ! ! It was so rude I've have never forgotten it 'though it was many years ago. . . J. I'm sorry but I have to disagree, music during dinner can be played as background to set the mood for relaxation and good conversation, now reading the paper or watching tv on the other hand...... Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 How easy is it to get the base board off instead? You could even rout a groove in the drywall, with a tool such as a dremel, after installing the wire in the groove, and applying a little bit of compund over it, and a little primer and paint, you would never know. Behind the baseboard installation would be simpler and a better optiion. You could take the opportunity to convince her that wainscotting would look nice, with a chair rail at the upper edge, this allows you to cut the drywall nice and low, drill holes in the existing studs, and run the wire inside the wall. A couple of partial sheets of drywall to fix up behind the wainscotting, compound, tape, a little primer and paint, and it can get covered up with the wainscotting. Butt the wainscotting up to the existing baseboard, or replace the baseboard with matching trim. An option would be to route a groove in the existing baseboard with a router, affix the wire to the wall, and reinstall the baseboard. A little putty and paint will fix up the baseboard if it is painted. Don't forget about putting a low voltage box with binding posts near where your source ( amp or receiver ) is. Other options are: drill through the double top plates and run wire from the attic ( single floor, assuming access to that space ) or, if you have a basement/crawlspace, drill up through the bottom plate, you may need a really long drill bit if you have firestops. Fish a wire through the hole that you cut in the drywall to mount the speaker. A piece of fishing line with a small lead sinker tied to the end might be handy, the kind that look like a bell with a loop on top. Parts Express has some items that you might require for a job like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffDurbin Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 Wow, lots of good suggestions (even the one about not reading the paper at dinner - LOL). I'm glad I took the time to voice my frustrations. There's a lot of creativity here. Our basement was finished off by the previous owners so that's not an option. This is the first floor of a two-story house so I cannot go through the attic either. The toughest part of the exercise is bridging the foyer. It is a two-story foyer but it has a 3 or 4 inch shelf above the entryway. I was going to run my cables across that shelf. The problem is that it is about 9 feet high which means I have to cut holes in the drywall in the master bedroom on one side and a guest bedroom on the other side to get access in order to drill holes through the subfloor to route the cable down from the 9' shelf to the ceiling area of the study and dining room. My initial plan was to cut a 3" hole where the crown molding will obscure it and drill up at an angle through the subfloor with a 1" drill and hope I can get lucky by feeding the cable down from the shelf and through the subfloor hole and out the hole that will be obscured by the crown molding. That saves me the trouble of cutting open temporary holes in the master and guest bedrooms. I am savvy enough to know that would tick off the wife. Michael's suggestion about the baseboards doesn't help this aspect of the project but I do plan on routing some cables within my family room and that will help obscure them even more than I had planned on doing. We have enough furniture in our family room that cables along the floor perimeter are generally not noticed. BUT, if there's a solution to be had I might as well do it. It's clear that the crown molding installers use a nail set punch to countersink their finishing nails without denting the molding. I was tempted to pull out my drill (since it was in my study anyway) but I figured a drill near the molding would just set my wife off! Using a nail set punch to punch the existing nails through is a very good idea, JJK! When I first was feeling for finishing nails without success I thought the molding was glued up somehow until I spotted the very small dabs of putty that were slightly different colors. I think this is my strategy for next weekend. I don't like the idea of wedging something under the molding and trying to pry it off - too much chance for something to break. THANKS EVERYONE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffDurbin Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 Your wife is correct IMHO. Music should not be played during dinner. Dinner is quality time for husband and wife (and children, if any). I once ate at a friend's house and her dad read the sports section while eating! ! ! It was so rude I've have never forgotten it 'though it was many years ago. . . J. Just to be clear, I agree that it is rude to read the paper at the dinner table but listening to a bit of jazz or classical music during dinner as background music can be good. Plus, it's tough to get my kids to sit still. During dinner, they're a bit of a captive audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 DON"T BUTCHER UP A GOOD TRIM JOB! Yes, I'm yelling. Get some pros in there to route your wire through attic, basement, under carpet, but don't tear up good trim work for speaker wires. Chances are that the suggestion to route around baseboard might work out. Set back and think about it. Put the tools down. You're going to make hundreds of dollars in repair work if you continue. Really. Trust me. You'll never get back like it was and will have to call in a professional trim carpenter. So just get the HT installer guys out there to figure it out. Here's an idea, do you have CHAIR RAIL moulding in that room? Maybe you could have some of it routed out and run speaker wire behind it, then up the wall to the in-wall speaker positions? Or just drop the lines down and put speakers in the 'wainscot' area. It's just background sound anyway, if you can't see the speakers because they're down low, you're better off, right? Finished reading the other suggestions, okay attic or bsmt is out. Baseboard might not work. There are flat wires you can run under carpet if you can get to the edges of that. Think about placement, it might not be so crucial that you need to traverse the wide doorway. Keep thinking for now. There is an elegant, easy solution. We just don't know it yet. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Your wife is correct IMHO. Music should not be played during dinner. Dinner is quality time for husband and wife (and children, if any). I once ate at a friend's house and her dad read the sports section while eating! ! ! It was so rude I've have never forgotten it 'though it was many years ago. . . J. What an utter load of horse manure!! To equivocate reading the sports page at the dinner table to having soft music playing in the background is absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 I have to ask: what is your level of patience and skill before I tell you to rip everything apart. If you are not confident tackling a project of this magnitude, talk to a professional and get some ideas and quotes. There is nothing wrong with having a "professional" come and do the work for you, but be aware that some self-proclaimed "professionals" are nothing more than monkeys with tools, IE: kids out of high school with a drill and a hammer. No disrespect to professional installers that actually care enough to do a proper job. Ask to see some examples of their work, ask for references, are they familiar with the products you are installing, etc, etc. Do your homework before you hire anyone that "someone knows / brother/sister/cousin",etc. However, there is a certain satisfaction that can be had by doing it yourself, if you have the means, tools and skills. If you are installing a ZON system at the same time, you may want to take that into consideration when pulling wires. You may want to incorporate video ( RG-6 ) and also phone / cat5 at the same time, even if you don't have a use for it yet. Professional consultation and installation does not come cheap, be prepared. I would reckon that for the same money, and a bit of research, you can purchase all the tools and supplies needed, and do the job yourself for less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffDurbin Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 My boss in Dallas had his brother fly down from Cleveland to install his big screen TV and surround system. He had the attic available to him but he wired at least one of the rear surrounds through a ventilation duct. The thing that blows my mind is that his brother is a custom installer but my boss had Bose anyway. You would think his brother would have put an immediate stop to that nonsense. My joists run from the front of the house to the back. Right now, I am using Monster flat wire around my room and then up the wall to my speakers. I can paint it to make it blend in but that is imperfect. One of the other forum members gave me a deal on his speaker connector face plates and I thought I could just drop the wires behind the drywall to the faceplates and route the cable around the room behind the baseboards or behind furniture. This solution solves the most obvious problem - speaker cable running down the surface of my walls. The even better solution is that I planned on cutting holes through the drywall from my study and into the ceiling area of the family room and then use some fish tape to run the speaker wire from my study, through the wall and across the family room above the ceiling and to the surrounds. Then I can obscure my cable runs ACROSS the width of my family room by hiding them behind the crown molding in the study. I enjoy home improvement projects. I am willing to hire someone to come in and do acoustic studies for sub placement and acoustic treatment, etc. Purchasing the equipment and software will cost about what the service will cost me plus I save the costs of the learning curve. Running cable isn't as daunting (when I can get creative ideas and reassurances from my peers in forums like this). Plus, imagine the satisfaction I will get when people come into my home and notice sound in my dining room but don't notice the speakers and an awesome home theater setup in my family room but no wire connecting anything! Being able to say, "Yeah I did all of that myself" is very satisfying. Yesterday, I was out wiring Christmas lights all over the house (where my wife was unable to reach) in 15 degree weather. I came in and read an article about upper middle class people like myself paying thousands of dollars paying 'Christmas decorating' contractors to decorate their house for Christmas. Where's the fun in that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffDurbin Posted December 5, 2005 Author Share Posted December 5, 2005 I was kidding about ZON. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Funny story about your boss and his brother.... coming from a big family ( 8 siblings ), I have learned to not worry about anyone else, but only give advice when asked for. Case in point, 2 of my brothers own Nuance loudspeakers. I personally do not care for them , but that is my preference, not theirs. So you do have some skill, and like a home-improvement project. I would say research a little more, and go for it, if you are confident that you can do the job. Lots of good ideas abound, seeing what others have done. Unfortunately, the description of the foyer opening is a little challenging, but can be overcome. Personally, I would cut a hole in the drywall in both rooms, to gain access, then patch it, painting just the wall that was affected. ( not too hard if you know what you are doing and have the color code and sheen ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieHeartKlipsch Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 You have good advice from experts in the building trades but I am speaking from a human level. I thought about this some more and discussed with Beth and she feels that it would not be as bad to play "mood music" playing softly BUT background music is not for someone like me who makes an emotional connection to music. Have you ever seen "Amadeus" an old movie about (Wolfgang)(Amadeus) Mozart, the composer? He is playing a beautiful piece he just wrote for the king and royal guests on piano (or harpsichord ? ? ?) and everyone is chatting not paying attention to this brilliant work for the Ages and he becomes enraged! ! ! They are so rude not only because he was SUCH a genius but even if he wasn't they aren't treating him respectfully as a performer. THAT IS WHAT I THINK OF WHEN I HEAR BACKGROUND MUSIC! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! IF YOU CARE ABOUT MUSIC YOU SHOULD FOCUS YOUR LIFE ENERGY ON IT! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! I AM SICK OF HEARING MUSIC EVERY WHERE CONSTANTLY! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! THIS IS WHAT ALSO CALLED MUZAK J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburnwilly Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Allan Songer , Baiting Allan Songer ... He He [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 If you don't have attic access to the top plate in the wall, and if you can't get in well behind the crown molding, then, behind the baseboard is the best way to go by a long shot. You'll have some flexibility to do what you want with an inch or so of drywall on the bottom, which will be covered by baseboard when you put it back. You can tuck the wire underneath the drywall if the baseboard will not sit flat with wire behind it, and you can even drill a 1/4" hole through the studs down low if you need to in order to keep the wire within the wall completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Watch what you're calling Muzak! I used to work for Muzak, and I know EXACTLY what that means. They had a vinyl collection that any radio station would be proud of. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 Julie.......I agree.....Its the woman of the house that tames our barbaric ways & teaches us correct manners. I now put my pants on before coming to the dinner table. & take my cap off before taking a shower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurenc319 Posted December 5, 2005 Share Posted December 5, 2005 hi, WOW!!! I guess she's angry, but I respectifully disagree. Music enhcances all aspects of life, including the dinner table. Nature is full of background sounds and none of them take away from a walk in the woods. Likewise, music enriches the intercourse at a social event, including dinner. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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