Loudisbeautiful Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Hello Klipschland, I would say LAS or Belles are a better choice unless you have TWO excellent corners. Take your time do the research. Read PWK white papers on room acoustics. See if your in the ballpark of what the KHORNS need. I am using LAS with one speaker in a perfect corner and the other without a corner. I have passed a few times on getting the khorns. From what I understand the more symmmetry a room has the closer the left vs right speaker wavefront will be. Resulting in better stereo imaging. This is more important to me than 50hz vs. 32hz. Lets face it....are you sure your next house is going to have two decent corners....thats a big gamble. You know the LAS will be there, no matter what room your in. While I do not own Khorns Ive heard them many different times in many different setups. Yes, the room does have more energy with the korns. However, the transient behavior in the LAS sounds quicker and more defined. This is mostly true with acoustic jazz and the like. While I do not know the mathematics on why this is so (maybe someone can help, ALK, a 6 foot horn vs 13 foot?), It is a constant in my acoustical memory. The reality of a subwoofer intergration is achievable but is usally hard won. For 80% of the music out there you dont need a subwoofer. However, psychoacoustics has proven that low fequence energy does indeed help with the placement of the hall and stereo image. Now, this is the rub....SOME PEOPLE are more sensative to this phenomenon!!!! I think this a good portion of the why there is sort of two camps in the Khorn vs. LAS debate. You can always get two good 15 inch subwoofers, cross them over about 45hz or so, and let the LAS rip. In short, Khorn with proper corners and LAS for everything else. Happy listening, Jeff PS. Has anyone heard the LAS 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 LSII, sure a bunch of us went down to Hope. SEARCH for the designation, or go to General or Pilgrimage for topics on HOPE. You'll find plenty of comments there. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Or you could get four Klipshorn's, a La Scala, a pair of Belle Klipsch and two 15" Velodyne Servo subwoofers and decimate all in your path! I had Belle Klipsch initially and when I put Khorn's in their place the difference was immediate and certainly not subtle, you can make all the excuses you want, the bottom line "The Klipschorn is King" period end of story. If you think you don't need a competent subwoofer especially with La Scala's or even Klipschorn's for that matter you are missing one to two octaves of music regardless of what you listen to, some people will talk themselves out of anything - Sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 I heard the LaScala II in Hope, not A/B with the old LaScala, but it was very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 "The Klipschorn is King" period end of story. IYHO not everyones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loudisbeautiful Posted December 6, 2005 Author Share Posted December 6, 2005 Frzninvt, I think your right Khorns are great.......for the most part......Just sometime the Khorn bass does not seem as quick as the LAS...... What I was trying to get at, is it psychoacoustics of how he hear that creats this, or the bigger the horn the better......as noted I don NOT have two PROPER coners......not talking myself out of a thing.....just what I hear......If I had two corners I most like would do the Korn.....Could not help myself........but many people have been trashing the LAS of late.....which really is too bad......it can be a picky speaker to mate to electronics because of the mid squawker horn .......tube/class a or class T can overcome this for the most part......both the khorn and the las cannot escape that..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loudisbeautiful Posted December 6, 2005 Author Share Posted December 6, 2005 NOS......right on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loudisbeautiful Posted December 6, 2005 Author Share Posted December 6, 2005 Daddy Dee, Can you write a quick review......I am thinking of buying the LAS II... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 LIB, I don't think the sound of the new LaScala is remarkably different than the old ones. In fact, I think demonstrating the "difference" in sound would be a considerable challenge, though I will certainly allow that the improved (stiffer) bass bin and further refined crossovers offer improvement. The bass bin cab is now built out of 1inch MDF. It is a beefy and substantial looking rascal. The bass bin cabinet issues are resolved with the new design. There may be others who picked up on more issues in the technical improvements while we were in Hope, and I hope they will chime in on this thread. This is just my take on them, not having had the opportunity for a head to heae comparison, which would be a real treat. One thing I can say about the technical improvements is that the Klipsch engineers were completely delighted to have the opportunity to demonstrate the LaScala II and they are IMO, properly proud of the new speaker. To my view, the most significant improvements are in the cosmetic department. You've seen the pics of the LaScala II, and if anything, the pictures are still not as fine as the speaker looks in person. The LaScala II is a beauty. In three channel setups with Khorns, I have never thought the old LaScala was cosmetically satisfactory as a center. The Belle's are the ticket for this. The LaScala II and the tweaked cosmetics of the new Khorns are a match visually. I haven't yet had the chance to see a LaScala II in that configuration and am not sure I'd prefer it to the Belle, but it would be a workable solution if desired, I think. From what you mentioned in your post about your take on the differences between Khorn and LaScala sound we've got some different subjective preferences. My preferences what they are, I would not buy new LaScalas if the choice was between Khorns and LaScalas. At one time I thought my LaScalas would be the last speakers I ever bought, and had never imagined having Khorns. I was quite pleased with their sound having a sub dialed in. When I did luck into a pair of Khorns for less than I had in my LaScalas, I was astounded and taken aback at the improvement I heard in sound. I could understand the bass being better, but even the HF loads the room differently, and better IMO. The sound is just bigger. I have not constructed false corners, but if I were in a situation where I didn't have decent corners, I wouldn't hesitate to build them. As I mentioned, these preferences are subjective. I'm glad (and I'm sure Klipsch is too) that you are considering buying a pair of LaScala II's. They are beauties.... and since you are already a genuine LaScala fan, you will not be disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loudisbeautiful Posted December 6, 2005 Author Share Posted December 6, 2005 Daddy Dee, Thank you for taking the time for the LAS 2 review. Very intresting. Your review helps me quite a bit...... Your points on the Khorn are well taken, as I said I would most likely get the Khorns with two excellent corners..... However, sometimes I think the LAS bass sounds better.......period.....(in some rooms!) With my current room..... The LAS is the better speaker.....for me..... I may go back to a 15 inch 4cuft. subwoofer........hehehheh...... Bob carver would kill me......When I talked with him about subwoofers for two hours (1995), he could not convence me smaller is better than bigger with subs.....any sunfire subs vs. 15 or 18inch subs opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 " could understand the bass being better, but even the HF loads the room differently, and better IMO. The sound is just bigger. " Quick question.... one sub or two with the LaScala's? If two subs were they fed stereo signals or mono? Psycoacoustically stereo bass response down to about 40hz is perceptible. It imparts a sense of envelopment and spaciousness to the sound that is missing bass response that is either lacking or not in stereo. A pair of LaScalas with a single sub is mono bass response. A pair of K'Horns have stereo bass down to 40hz. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loudisbeautiful Posted December 6, 2005 Author Share Posted December 6, 2005 hi sfogg, I have used two subwoofers before..........I have found one sub is easier to intergrate into the system...especially 4cuft!!!...however, thats why I asked about two carvers subs....I would have the room to do that....or one giant 18inch .....LOL I am not sure ive heard this stereo bass myself.....but I have friends that swear by it.......what do you think?.....have you tried mono vs. stereo bass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 "I have used two subwoofers before........." Not just two subs, two subs spaced apart from each other and fed different signals between them to preserve any stereo bass in the recording. Many recordings have bass mixed in mono so even with two subs it might make no difference on those recordings. ".....but I have friends that swear by it.......what do you think?.....have you tried mono vs. stereo bass?" Yup, and ever since I have had stereo subs. How effective it is depends upon the recording and also on how your subs are setup. Optimally your subs should be directly to your sides. In my old room I could achieve that with my subs, in my new room I couldn't. New room is smaller while the subs are dramatically larger. However, I am also using Lexicon's 'Bass Enhance' processing which seeks to add the effects of stereo bass to recordings that have mixed mono bass. Turning that on or off and/or changing my subs from stereo to mono is trivially easy from remote while listening to music. Sometimes it makes a noticeable difference, sometimes it doesn't. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 Jeff, Thanks. My experience with subs is so limited, I couldn't comment on the Sunfire vs big subs. I just had very pleasing results with my LaScalas using the Cambridge Soundworks P1000. It has a IR remote and and tabletop control box, away from the sub unit. This turned out to be an amazing convenience as opposed to spending alot of time down on the knees in a corner adjusting the sub. I really liked the Soundworks sub. Haven't heard anyone else on the forum mention using one, but to my ears it was fast and once dialed in a seamless match with the LaScalas. One observation about using a sub with LaScalas. It was surprising how little an amount of sub sound was required for fabulous results. Every now and then I'd be turning off my components and end up with the sub playing without the LaScala mains. I'd think, wow, not much sound there, but the way the sound was complete to my ears was astounding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 "If it tests good and sounds bad, you might be an audiophile." "If it tests bad and sounds good, you might be an audiophile." IF YOU BELIEVE EITHER OF THE ABOVE YOU MIGHT BE DEAF Lordy, this seems to make no sense as worded. I know the original quote you are playing off of but.... Craig, I am still trying to make out what you are attempting to say here. Help the old man with the caffeine and boat beer addled mind try to understand. It's a head scratcher to be sure. Lost in a sea of foam, kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted December 6, 2005 Share Posted December 6, 2005 I gotta be a smart-alec again and say one thing: If it LOOKS better, it'll automatically SOUND better, too! Unfortunately, it is true that more than just the sense of hearing is involved in that assessment. You get "set up" for your impressions WAY before actually hearing the things. That is, you will hear what you WANT (or expect) to hear. How does a person counter that effect? DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loudisbeautiful Posted December 6, 2005 Author Share Posted December 6, 2005 DM, Oh yeah.....i remember many moons ago ...could be stereophile....they did amp testing.... Sure enough.....black colored amps were dark sounding......Silver color amps were bright.... Just got off the phone with Steve Philips at Klipsch....great guy.....so nice to talk to me for an hour! He said that Trey and himself recently one Fri night took some LAS 2 out for a spin and used a RSW 10 subwoofer.....Which kept up with the LAS 2 till 115db or so......lol........by the time the rsw 10 was compressing ....it was so loud they had to run out of the room..... maybe Im over thinking this sub debate....... what a need is a six pack and two RSW 15.....Just kidding Steve! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 To make La Scalas sound more like Klipschorns, try something along these lines: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 mh said: "If it tests good and sounds bad, you might be an audiophile." "If it tests bad and sounds good, you might be an audiophile." IF YOU BELIEVE EITHER OF THE ABOVE YOU MIGHT BE DEAF Lordy, this seems to make no sense as worded. I know the original quote you are playing off of but.... Craig, I am still trying to make out what you are attempting to say here. Help the old man with the caffeine and boat beer addled mind try to understand. It's a head scratcher to be sure. kh" I think ole Craig is saying that I might be Deaf, Deaf. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 To make La Scalas sound more like Klipschorns, try something along these lines: Soooo...... if that fella sits in yer room yer La Scala's will sound like K-Horns...coool how do I get ahold of him?[:^)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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