oscarsear Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Gonna do a little rant...... Everybody agrees, including tobacco companies, that children should not take up tobacco habits....right?? Well, if that's the case, why is it acceptable for your children to decide to start using tobacco when they're old enough to legally buy it?? The only people I can find who think todays children should have the option of starting to use tobacco as adults are the tobacco companies (surprise)!! If we changed the laws so that the legal age to purchase tobacco was increased by one year, every year then: A). Those adults who currently need tobacco could still buy it, and . Our kids would never attain the legal age to purchase tobacco. In 50 or 60 years tobacco could be history[]!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Too simple, makes too much sense and it probably would not work. My younger brother smokes and I dread the day he starts having big problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted December 16, 2005 Author Share Posted December 16, 2005 The reason I promote this is because it is so simple. The people who always rant and rave about ending tobacco are those who are addicted to the stuff. They don't think anyone else should start...but don't take away theirs. The toughest part about actually doing this would be telling adults of legal age apart but color coded DL's could help with that. I don't pretend to think that this will stop tobacco in it's tracks but it in about a decade it's usage in kids would be way down. In time there'd be no contraband tobacco. It would just fade away as a non-issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 "Fade away as a non issue",ha...I'll take some of what you're smokin'.Please name one food/drug/booze thats "faded away"as a result of one group telling another how to live their life and passing commi bs laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codhead Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 If we changed the laws so that the legal age to purchase tobacco was increased by one year, every year then: A). Those adults who currently need tobacco could still buy it, and . Our kids would never attain the legal age to purchase tobacco. In 50 or 60 years tobacco could be history[]!!!! Why stop with tobacco? Might as well throw in alcohol too. And skydiving or any other risky behavior. Stop serving Big Mac's to fat kids, and charge their parents with child abuse. Ban SUV's, quit wearing fur, stop eating fish (those fish have feelings you know). Could raise the driving age to 30 - just think of how many lives that would save. Not long ago, some in England were advocating the termination of social health benefits for overweight individuals who refused to heed their doctor's advice. While I don't think smoking is a very good idea for anyone (or drinking, or over-eating, or skydiving), I tend to side with the whole individual liberty issue. I really prefer to live in a free society vs. a socialist utopia where the state tells me how to live my life. In 50 or 60 years individual freedom could be history[]!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted December 16, 2005 Author Share Posted December 16, 2005 I suppose if we wanted absolutely NO gov't oversight then anything, anyone decided was fun, for whatever reason and at whatever costs would be, or should be legal. Was a time when cocaine was legal. Then we learned that it was addictive and caused a great many more and more costly problems than apparently the freedom for anyone to use it was worth. And cocaine was made illegal. Anyone here so afraid that french fries will be next on the banned list that they are willing to have tobacco available to kill your own children? There's only one group who'll fight to save tobacco: Those who profit from growing and/or selling it. Are you willing to sacrifice your children to preserve freedom of choice or these people freedom to offer them poison? Instead of telling me why the gov't shouldn't impose itself on your life convince me that tobacco needs to or merits remaining on the shelf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Children should not smoke tobacco? Yes, of course. Children are assumed to lack the necessary life experience, knowledge and wisdom to make decisions regarding actions that could bring them, or society, harm. That's why there are age limits restricting drinking, driving, smoking, voting, joining the military, having sex, riding in the front seat of a car, leaving school and a bunch of other behaviours. (Interestingly enough, there is no minimum age requirement for a pilot's license... I guess if you spend 40 hours with a flight instructor and can pass your check ride, they figure you can fly a plane.) Adults should not be permitted to smoke? Are you nuts? I smoke. I enjoy having a cigarette with a glass of wine. What right do you have to tell me I shouldn't be allowed to smoke in my own home? Our society is going way over the top in the "sticking nose in where nose oughtn't be" category. We already have states that won't let you ride your own motorcycle without a helmet (thankfully Connecticut hasn't adopted that insanity yet). I understand restricting smoking in public buildings - that makes sense. But prohibit it totally? That's ridiculous. Cardio Vascular disease kills thousands of overweight people every year. Should we set limits on a person's weight based on their height and morphology, and refuse to let them eat if they're over their limit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted December 16, 2005 Author Share Posted December 16, 2005 Ray............ I didn't say YOU shouldn't be able to smoke...by all means be my guest. Ray do you want your grandkids to smoke? Is smoking so enriching to your life that you want all of your offspring to take up the habit? If nothing else it's becoming so costly and outcast that it shouldn't be too high on the coming of age syndrome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 I have a six year old son, Nicholas. Here's his picture: I will try to help him understand the risks associated with smoking, particularly for young people (I started when I was 38). But when he's 18 (or whatever the age of maturity is 12 years from now) if he wants to smoke, I will do everything I can to defend his freedom to make that decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted December 16, 2005 Author Share Posted December 16, 2005 Very good looking boy. When you "do your best" to warn him about the risks of smoking will you be biased as a user yourself?? Will you be as versed in those risks as someone with medical training?? Can you be as effective and honest as the seriousness of those those risks warrant?? I wouldn't recommend a wine for anyone to drink as I'm not so well schooled or practiced in that arena. I know that you are. I would defer to one more knowledgeable. You need to understand that if your best isn't good enough that the tobacco companies will entice this youngster as an adult. They intend to coax him to start using tobacco in any form and they will spend BILLIONS to entice him and others into it. They do that knowing full well that all they need to do is get them to start those habits...and they've a new clientelle for life. They will not care about his health anymore than they care about yours or anybodies. Are you willing to pit your "best" risk assessment lectures against the "best" marketing that tobacco can afford?? .....or would it be better if this young man just didn't have the choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Oscar,just wanted to say I applaud your efforts to stop kids from becoming smokers.If you want to go to schools etc..and tell em'.show em' I'm all for that.The only problem I have is NO more laws,we got plenty that hardly work already.As to peoples choice,enjoy it because someday future generations will have little,all for their benefit of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 No, Oscar, it would not be better if this young man just didn't have the choice. Our freedoms and liberties are precious. With freedom comes responsibility. We each must be responsible for our own actions. To defer the responsiblity for decision making to an outside agency is to abdicate that responsibility and lose, piece by piece, those precious freedoms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelerFan Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 I don't see how we'll ever stop kids from smoking. Seems like most of the young kids I see walking around the neighborhood have a cigarette in their hand because they think it makes them cool. I know I tried it for a few months when I was 14 going on 15 because I thought it made me cool. They were easy to get just like beer was. As long as they are out there kids are going to get them. I suppose had the big tattoo craze been popular when I was a kid like it is now then I'd have been conspiring to get one of them also. Just about EVERY young person I see at the gym, male and female has one of them. I wasn't comcerned much with being an individual when I was a kid, I wanted to be like everyone else. Does that mean I think tobacco and alcohol should be outlawed? Hasn't done much good with drugs. And I believe people should be able to make their own choices. If it was up to me, marijuana would be legal and taxed. But I still wouldn't use it. Sometimes I'm glad I never got married and became a parent. Just like alot of parents I'd probably be preaching against the dangers of using tobacco and alcohol (and drugs) so much I'd liable to be driving my kids toward them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted December 16, 2005 Author Share Posted December 16, 2005 Actually, I guess the ? is why pick on tobacco? Is trying to control tobacco worth another law or an infringment on our freedoms? Well we all know health care is going to hell in a handbasket. We all want better healthcare, more affordable insurance and less taxation. Tobacco is the 1st most preventible cause of death. Which also means it's the 1st most preventible cause of hospitalization. If your kids smoke they will not get health insurance from any provider. No one will sell them life insurance. CDC say about 1,200 people (Americans) die each day from tobacco. If 3 jumbo jets went down every day would the FAA do anything? Tobacco usage is akin to signing up for a train wreck and those of who don't still pay a huge price for those who do. Instead of taking what we've learned about tobacco and deciding to put it out of reach some are willing to put their kids into a crap shoot with the tobacco business. Any of you in doubt take the time to visit any major hospital and see the lungers and hear their stories. Then go home, look you kids in the face and say again, "I'll let you wrestle with big tobacco and choose for yourself." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 (Interestingly enough, there is no minimum age requirement for a pilot's license... My wifes cousins had their pilots licenses "before" driving age and now they are commercial pilots....and now back to our regularly scheduled audio discussion...[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codhead Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Hate to break the bad news, but tobacco is soon to be overtaken as the number one preventable cause of death. Guess what's going to be the new number one? Obesity! See for yourself: http://www.thedoctorslounge.net/medlounge/articles/obesity_death/ Better start railing against "Big Food". I want to hear your solution for this problem. Fat kids are not going to be able to get health insurance. The Government better do something! Lock up the Twinkies!! Tax the Moon Pies!!! Legislate personal responsibility!!!! Take your kids to the circus, and show 'em the Fat Lady - before it's too late! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Ray, Fish, Steeler, and Cod, YOU ARE RIGHT ON THE MONEY!! ........."I really prefer to live in a free society vs. a socialist utopia where the state tells me how to live my life."..... Oscar, Are you shilt*ng me? How old are you? Granted, A good thing is a good thing. Car seats for kids is a good thing. I just wonder how my generation ever existed without them. They are a good thing. Should I be busted for not using one? Buddy, the freedoms that we (USA) fought and died for(I am not a VET).....are going away. I will bet money that you don't have a prob with "freedom of choice" for the ladies. Be consistent, son. If you can kill a baby; me and Ray can smoke. Hug and worship a tree, make love to a Dolphin, surf is up, so hang ten. Please do not bring up "second hand smoke" in an open air football stadium that seats 75,000. What the hell, bring it up. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted December 17, 2005 Author Share Posted December 17, 2005 Having read your objections it appears that there's not a lot of disagreement about the ills of tobacco. Those who replied are more concerned about gov't intrusion and civil liberty than working to gradually eliminate tobacco. I suspect given a vote that you would lose, and you'd be upset about it. I'm not for more or bigger gov't. I merely feel it's the role of the gov't to protect it's populace from known and serious hazards not unlike toxic waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted December 17, 2005 Share Posted December 17, 2005 Given a vote there would have been many throughout history that would have got screwed.I don't wan't the masses tellin' me what to do,just read the constitution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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