meagain Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 Jeff - I edited my post above. I WAS listening in mono/mono. [] 78 - I did that test. It's not the amp. Still the same. Didn't move. Either the speaker or the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Boy, when mobile homeless was talking about burying your mistakes, you take the cake! LOL. Okay, so you were sending mono to both channels. Now, where are we? You switched the xover in the left and it sounded good - you think/hypothesize/know (which?). You did/did not (which?) change the xover in the right, and it sounds bad. Get us all clear where you're at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78Khorn Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Meagain, while not the easiest check to do you could swap the speaker position and know for sure whether it is the speaker or the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Meagain, while not the easiest check to do you could swap the speaker position and know for sure whether it is the speaker or the room. Very true! And I'll add for clarity that the speaker positions should be moved, but not the wires. You must keep them wired as they are, or you'll get zilch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I guess I'm just fortunate to have really liked the difference when I installed the PIO type A. The highest resolution measuring instruments available happen to be on either side of our heads. They really do work quite well if you take the time to learn how to use them. The "audio memory is way too short for us to ever trust our ears & brain" argument is BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 I guess I'm just fortunate to have really liked the difference when I installed the PIO type A. The highest resolution measuring instruments available happen to be on either side of our heads. They really do work quite well if you take the time to learn how to use them. The "audio memory is way too short for us to ever trust our ears & brain" argument is BS. Ben's lost patience..... He's right, though. If it's that hard to tell, then..........[N] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 This thread's almost double the length of my review of those xovers. Matter of fact, my review was out of the starting gate pretty quick. Here we are at 165 replies, and we still have no idea if these xovers are an improvement. What gives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78Khorn Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 If I followed this thread correctly I think we know that Meagain believes the crossovers were an improvement but it sounds like one speaker sounds great and the other one sounds bad enough (no matter which crossover she has in it) that it isn't acceptable for her to listen to. So now she is trying to figure out why the sound in the one speaker isn't acceptable. Is it the speaker, the room accoustics or the CDplayer/Amp. Once the (bad)speakers sound is resolved then she can listen to both speakers with and without the new crossovers again and complete her crossover evaluation. I don't have enough energy to go back and read all of this thread again to see if I got this summary correct. Meagain, did I get this right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Actually, that does ring a bell. In that case, I'd first scrap the moving the speakers idea, and switch out the speaker wires - where the right speaker stays where it is, but plays the music sent out of the receiver's left channel. That way, you could see if the left speaker would then sound as bad as the right did, and whether the right improved and sounds as good as the left did. No? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78Khorn Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 On a earlier page 11 reply she answered my comment about that by saying she had done that and the same speaker still sounded bad. So that is why I think she should swap the speaker to determine once and for all if the problem is the speaker or its associated wires, or the room EQ/ equipment that is feeding the speakers i.e. CD player or amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 A couple of replies earlier she answered by comment about that by saying she had done that and the same speaker still sounded bad. So that is why I think she should swap the speaker to determine once and for all if the problem is the speaker or its associated wires, or the equipment that is feeding the speakers i.e. CD player or amp. Oh! Further than I thought. Okay, you're right. If she moves the speakers by putting the right one exactly where the left one is, and vise versa, she ought to tell if room placement is causing this. If not, it's the signal path from the equipment (either CD or receiver). Couldn't be anything else if I understand you correctly. Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 Well. I think I'm done. The difference in sound (to ears) of the 2 speakers is VASTLY more in your face than the difference we're hearing between old & new x-overs. I cannot test the crossovers by comparing left & right. Period. When I first tested, I was thrilled thinking the new caps made a BIG difference - then sadly realized that speaker just plains sounds better than the right anyway so my initial impression went out the window. Husband didn't see much difference with the new. He states there is no way he will remember the old vs. the new when we have to spend time yanking them out, installing new, putting them back. He has to do an a/b and unless the difference is massive - it's moot. I tend to agree with him on the memory thing. I don't think I'll be able to do it either. We'll try it tomorrow though. Both speaks will get old then new and we'll listen. I guess our focus shifted to the inherent difference in the 2 speakers. We had a long talk just now about x-overs, rebuilding, new pricey ones, etc. and talked about this Behringer DEQ2496 gadget. Buying new x-overs would be a leap of faith right now, but we're in agreement with you all that minimally the caps are important and will at least switch those out (he wants to try to DIY this) and any 'important' parts. I sent him some info on the new options out there. We both realize the EQ won't take the place of new x-overs so we get that. I think we'll end up taking baby steps into crossover land right now. Perhaps the EQ will tell us what we are hearing and allow me to translate it better and for all I know, help me select a certain type of x-over for when we're ready? 78 - We're going to swap speaker location tomorrow. Eww. (my gut says the problem won't follow the speaker). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78Khorn Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Right, if she moves the speakers and the bad sound moves with them then the problem is the speaker or it's internal wiring. If she moves the speakers and the sound stays bad were it currently is bad, then the room EQ, external speaker wires, cd player or amp have a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 If I followed this thread correctly I think we know that Meagain believes the crossovers were an improvement but it sounds like one speaker sounds great and the other one sounds bad enough (no matter which crossover she has in it) that it isn't acceptable for her to listen to. So now she is trying to figure out why the sound in the one speaker isn't acceptable. Is it the speaker, the room accoustics or the CDplayer/Amp. Once the (bad)speakers sound is resolved then she can listen to both speakers with and without the new crossovers again and complete her crossover evaluation. I don't have enough energy to go back and read all of this thread again to see if I got this summary correct. Meagain, did I get this right? 100% correct Sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78Khorn Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Meagain, moving them will be a pain but it will help you isolate the problem. Well you got to admit this is turning into a hobby that is keeping you busy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Meagain. Do your thing, but I will most humbly suggest the EQ-thing will get you absolutely naught. You have an EQ built right into that receiver. Maybe you can't get as infinitessimal the frequency control through the receiver, but you'll get close enough as far as your ears will tell. If you just can't wait to play with multiple sets of little up-and-down gizmos for the thrill of playing with gadgets, then go for it. It won't fix your issue, though. You've got a room issue, a CD issue or a receiver issue. Possibly a speaker issue, too. You know now how to narrow each of those down, one at a time. By throwing an EQ into the mix, you'll get nothing and still add another variable. I'll bet it's not the speaker. I'll bet it's not the room. I'll bet it's possible it's the CD. I'd still lay my money on the receiver. And.... hubby's probably right. He's the one with the musically-trained ears. Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 Jeff - I'd bet money that this EQ will help immensely. Alot of people here have one with great reviews of what it can do. Reports of dramatic good changes. I trust that. Did alot of research off this site also and I feel no matter what, it'll have a use here. We'll see over the weekend. Why are you so sure it won't fix my issue? Do you have this particular gadget? BTW - It's not a receiver issue. Checked that. Bet it's the room. I'm not throwing the EQ into the mix till I'm done with everthing else (except buying a new CD player). Did you send your old x-overs over to Bob? And are you still giving Rick's a shot? Your test seemed dramatically short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Mobley Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 from back in the olden days on page 3: The anomalies in the left channel as shown in the graph need to be looked at. Best (but not necessarily most convenient) way to address that is to reverse the speakers and re-run the test exactly as run before. See if the anomaly follows the speaker or not. if it does there might be an issue with the speaker itself. if it stays on the left put the speakers back where they were and switch the speaker wires at the amp, run the test again. if the anomaly switches sides there might be an amp problem. if it doesn't switch sides put the speaker wires back where they were and switch the the L & R inputs from the CD player or whatever you're using, see where the anomaly goes. if none of this laborious testing changes anything there's likely an issue with nodes in the room. Obviously it's important to maintain the testing as closely as possible and also to put the stuff back like it was each time, otherwise you're testing the combined effect of changing several variables, which is meaningless. if you run through this basic testing people here will be able to help you get it sorted out. Otherwise, you can get an equalizer and start covering up anomalies by introducing others, which is a long and depressing path to nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Meagain, what Tom said. Plus, you've got tone controls on the receiver don't you? That's all an EQ is. EQ's have the tone spectrum broken down into more segments, but big deal. It won't make the difference for you. So, if you want to pretend what the EQ will sound like, try using your tone controls to cover up what you don't like. That's what they're there for. Didn't your old speakers sound proportionally just fine with your CD-player and receiver? The KG-4's or whatever they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 I realize you don't have this particular gadget and I realize you feel all those apparently respected forum members who reported significant differences must be crazy. I realize you know this without owning it or probably reading the reviews both here & off site. I realize you're going to proclaim something as fact just because you made it so in your head. (even future events) I didn't spend time trying to make my old speakers work better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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