DimaK Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 I've got this pair of Lascalas recently and they really sound different from anything modern i had untill today. but they're not perfect and require some work and mods. after i've read this forum i discovered that replacement/moding of following things provide significant improvement: - tweeters - xovers - midrange horn - midrange driver - bass bin bracing - porting for lower bass extension after i add to this LS's kinda ugly look and bulky size plus renovation of the cabinets it makes me think - why to go this way? i mean - if somebody wants the best bang for a buck (brithish pound in my case :-)) than i guess nothing can come close to 800$ or so Lascalas. But if someone wants the best if that great, big, neutral, imidiate sound of vintage speakers - then Lascalas require a lot of mods which easily can add onther 1,000$ on top of their cost - so why not go directly to old JBL's, Altecs, Tannoys etc.? in any case i have to thank to PWK and to Lascalas as i think they really got me into this bug. I personaly don't really like Tannoys (although they're the easiest thing to get here in UK) and never heard good Altecs or JBL's........... anyway, speaking financially, i'm at the crossroad where to go and any input will be greatly appreciate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 because they're LOUD At 104db/watt efficient, they are by far the most efficient speaker made. What does that mean? SInce it takes double the wattage to gain only 3 db, you save a ton of bucks on amplifier power. For instance, my HT rig was Cornwalls all around. Pretty efficient at 98db. But even with my fairly powerful Yamaha 2400 receiver, it wasn't enough. Rather than spend beaucoup buckies to buy more amplifier power, I just rolled the LS into place. Instant gain of 6db up front with the L/R speakers was equal to going from my receiver's 80 clean watts to having to get an amp with 300 watts per channel. Now my concert DVD's are more satisfying. I'm not saying that I listen to it that loud all the time, but it's nice to have the output available for peaks. The only mod I've done is new crossovers, necessary because of the speakers age more than engineering shortcomings. Even at that, I have $1000US in a pair of speakers that will blow away anything. All those other mods, we're talking about the last 5% or so improvement in sound. I'm good with them the way they are! Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbsl Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 How is it going? Have you done all these mods you listed or you plan to do the Mods? You said "Lascalas require a lot of mods which easily can add onther 1,000$ on top of their cost - so why not go directly to old JBL's, Altecs, Tannoys etc.?" but then you said "I personaly don't really like Tannoys (although they're the easiest thing to get here in UK) and never heard good Altecs or JBL's..........." I am confused[:^)] if you do not like the other speakers then why go to them at all? If you do not have the money to do all the upgrades and mods you mentioned right now then do it over a year or two as you get the money. Now if you fell that one of the other speakers sound better than your La Scalas before any mods and you cannot afford the mods then buy the other speaker! This hobby is all about what sounds good to you. If you always wanted a pair of La Scalas but the Tannoys sound better then get the Tannoys. If you like the La Scalas better than the other speakers then stay with them and slowly do the mods. I own a pair of 2004 La Scalas and so far the only mod is I built 6 1/2 inch risers for the speakers. Other than that I have not felt the need to do anymore mods or upgrades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbsl Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Also the equipment you use with the La Scalas can make a big difference in how they sound. A very good preamp, amp, and cd player or turntable[*] are a must [*]if you want the best sound out of the La Scalas. Please tell us what equipment you use with the LS. If you have not done any M&U yet the first one I would do is the crossover. There are many people on the forum that have upgraded their crossovers with very good results! After that you can continue to do M&U if you still want to. Good luck with the La Scalas and keep us up to date on how it is going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boom3 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 I agree with you. LaScalas were never meant to be home speakers, and, after Hereseys, they are my least favorite of the Heritage line (which only leaves Khorns and Corns [. I'm not sure Belles are different enough from LS to make a significant difference] If you want the maximum advantage of Klipsch sound 'right out of the box' with no mandatory tweaking then go with late-model Cornwalls. CWs can indeed be tweaked-the late model crossovers are functional and that's about the best that can be said for them. In some settings, they can have a boom that sometimes annoys. However, many Klipschheads and even the general public think the CWs are the best Heritage, apart from the Klipschorn itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Modding: - tweeters - xovers - midrange horn - midrange driver Applies across the board to all the Heritage line mainly because you can. La Scala's are an excellent speaker. The bass most people here covet and extol about, that being bass down to 20 Hz, is only achievable with a sub. As time goes on there are better options available to improve almost any speaker you can think of. As to their current day relevance , how many other speakers beyond the Heritage line up have their closest competitor being their used siblings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Button Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 With the right crossovers and pre-amp, La Scala's image like crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HatTrick66 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 because they're LOUD At 104db/watt efficient, they are by far the most efficient speaker made. What does that mean? SInce it takes double the wattage to gain only 3 db, you save a ton of bucks on amplifier power. For instance, my HT rig was Cornwalls all around. Pretty efficient at 98db. But even with my fairly powerful Yamaha 2400 receiver, it wasn't enough. Rather than spend beaucoup buckies to buy more amplifier power, I just rolled the LS into place. Instant gain of 6db up front with the L/R speakers was equal to going from my receiver's 80 clean watts to having to get an amp with 300 watts per channel. Now my concert DVD's are more satisfying. I'm not saying that I listen to it that loud all the time, but it's nice to have the output available for peaks. The only mod I've done is new crossovers, necessary because of the speakers age more than engineering shortcomings. Even at that, I have $1000US in a pair of speakers that will blow away anything. All those other mods, we're talking about the last 5% or so improvement in sound. I'm good with them the way they are! Michael Michael-what do you think about a LS as a center for CW II's in a HT? thanks, Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Not the best, but possibly better than a Heresey. Why do I say that? Bass doens't match, Mid horn and crossover point different. Efficiency +6 db with the LS. Get another CW and make it perfect. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 I agree with Michael here... A Cornwall Older Vertical on the side ( Now horns are horizontal here..) one too. It makes a incredible center!!! And you NEED that BASS feeling to match your Cornwalls too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimaK Posted February 18, 2006 Author Share Posted February 18, 2006 well, thx for the input till now. some answers/clarifications.......[*] my equipment: - electrocompaniet EMC 1UP cd player upsampling - very righ "tube like" sounding with a great bass and airy extended treble - sony scd-777es SACD player - conrad johnson pv14 mk2 pre and mv60se power - very good, a bit warm but not too much - REL Stentor sub - a great piece, especially helpfull with Lascalas [] - various expensive cables - mostly with a neutral and very transparent sound (no "transparent cables" though for me [] - good models are way too expensive IMO) my primary priority is stereo music - i listen mostly to the smooth and vocal jazz - bem webster, oscar peterson, ella, mingus, miles davies, brubeck, ray brown etc. Michael, i see you point rearding 104db sensitivity i think that currently i don't have a problem of weak amplification. with my current amp i worked great with 88-92 db speakers. so - amp change isn't an issues for me (correct me if i' wrong). Xman, i'm also confused. by bottom line is that i do have a budget - i'm just wondering whether i should go all the way with LS moding or for the same budget get other vintage 15" speakers like Altecs, JBL's, Infinity etc. Since those are also getting great reviews - but i didn't hear most of them. This is where your guys' help is needed - in case budget is not an issue (say up to 2,500$) - how Lascala's sound can be compared to others "big names"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HatTrick66 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 know of any single CWII's available in my vicinity? I realize a single vert is pretty coveted and I think I would take the closer match anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 well, thx for the input till now. some answers/clarifications.......[*] my equipment: - electrocompaniet EMC 1UP cd player upsampling - very righ "tube like" sounding with a great bass and airy extended treble - sony scd-777es SACD player - conrad johnson pv14 mk2 pre and mv60se power - very good, a bit warm but not too much - REL Stentor sub - a great piece, especially helpfull with Lascalas [] - various expensive cables - mostly with a neutral and very transparent sound (no "transparent cables" though for me [] - good models are way too expensive IMO) my primary priority is stereo music - i listen mostly to the smooth and vocal jazz - bem webster, oscar peterson, ella, mingus, miles davies, brubeck, ray brown etc. Michael, i see you point rearding 104db sensitivity i think that currently i don't have a problem of weak amplification. with my current amp i worked great with 88-92 db speakers. so - amp change isn't an issues for me (correct me if i' wrong). Xman, i'm also confused. by bottom line is that i do have a budget - i'm just wondering whether i should go all the way with LS moding or for the same budget get other vintage 15" speakers like Altecs, JBL's, Infinity etc. Since those are also getting great reviews - but i didn't hear most of them. This is where your guys' help is needed - in case budget is not an issue (say up to 2,500$) - how Lascala's sound can be compared to others "big names"? Older Altec and JBL need updates too. Infinity's well lets just say I have nver been a big fan of Infinity. All old speakers need their crossover caps replaced at a minimum. W/ a $2500 budget assuming $800 was spent on you La Scala's you have $1600 left over and you already have a sub. Altec 511B Horns won't fit in La Scala cabinet and allow you to keep tweeter in the cabinet - maybe $100-150 plus shipping for the pair. Al's Trachorns a better physical fit in La Scala cabinets $577 plus shipping. Tweeters JBL 2404, Beyma CP25 will not fit in the cabinet and are usually mounted on top, anywhere from about $150 ea on up. BEC Tweeters $150/pr plus shipping and they will fit in the cabinet with ALK trachorns or stock K400 horns. Crossovers, here you get into philosohpy issues. Some like original/rebuild to maufactureer spec. Other like more up to date designs. Cost from about 200 a set to abotu $1200 plus shipping. Squawker driver IMO the K55M is a pretty nice driver goes down to 400 Hz and extend up to meet eth improved tweeters pretty easily. Still other like JBL and Altec. Again though you are only talking about incremental improvements over the original. To me the changes I made were very much worth the added expense and will only have cost me about $875 plus shiping and that was for 3 La Scala's. All totaled I have a pretty impressive front 3 for just around $2300. I bought my La Scala's new in 1984 for around what they sell for used today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimaK Posted February 21, 2006 Author Share Posted February 21, 2006 well, as i said earlier - we're talking serious money here. at least comparing to second habd LS' cost on the market. what i can tell untill now is that their sound is addictive [ip]. is there a way back to "normal" speakers? [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Yes, they are addictive. Pay no attention to the naysayers. Cornwalls my eye!Put some ALK crossovers in them with some 511B horns sitting on top, and they will floor you! With a nice amp/preamp combo that can provide some serious bottom end (VRD's/BlueBerry) you will never be wanting again. Ask me how I know...Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 First off, you are NOT going to find a front-loaded horn that is as small in size. Therefore, all of the other "alternatives" listed above are going to be some sort of compromise system , bass reflex, partially horn loaded direct radiators, rear-loaded direct radiators, etc. Each one of those designs comes complete with its own limitations and sonic drawbacks. They will also be quite large in order to adequately compete. More expensive too. There is no true "answer" to the dilema of size vs. frequency response, low distortion vs. high distortion, ect. That is one of the reasons for the LS to be so long lasting, and the other designs NOT. How many of the above "alternatives" are still being manufactured? There is the closest to an answer that you will find. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiggerIsBetter Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 No, there is no going back. Get a good sub, fresh x-overs, set them up correctly and enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 what i can tell untill now is that their sound is addictive [ip]. is there a way back to "normal" speakers? [] Yes there is but it involves enormous amounts of shock therapy[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Yes, they are addictive. Pay no attention to the naysayers. Cornwalls my eye! Put some ALK crossovers in them with some 511B horns sitting on top, and they will floor you! With a nice amp/preamp combo that can provide some serious bottom end (VRD's/BlueBerry) you will never be wanting again. Ask me how I know... MIke I could not have said it better myself![] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 know of any single CWII's available in my vicinity? I realize a single vert is pretty coveted and I think I would take the closer match anyway. No, but if you've got some skills, I have two spare K600/K55 units (although it was the K601/K57 in the CWII). Those are the rarest parts to the CW. You could get K33 new, K77 or K79 used and have xover built. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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