Erik Mandaville Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 I've been looking over James' Moondogs from Kevin, and they are now hooked up to my tube preamp and Klipschorns in a very simple two-channel stereo setup. I had the usual RFI stuff I've always had when running the system this way, but always find that moving cables around a bit can cure it. These are great Moondogs, and I have forgotten the wonderful tonality they have with Klipschorns. The sound is extremely full and detailed without etch of any kind. Very satisfying and musical. I had also forgotten how both loud and clean they can play -- louder in fact than I would want to listen. My interest in listening to music has almost nothing to do with how loud a system can play, but we all have different preferences in that regard. Kevin's packing of all the tubes and double-boxed amps was a lesson in the packing art, and I know James will appreciate the obvious effort he went to in order to make sure they arrived here safely. A great pair of what IMO are really fine, classic 2A3 amps! Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamer Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Eric, Are those before the DRD circuit? I am looking at a pair of Wavelength Gemini 2A3 monos,they can also be used with the 45 tube by flipping a switch under the chassis. I am very curious as to the sound of the 2A3.I have yet to hear one. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted March 2, 2006 Author Share Posted March 2, 2006 Greg: "Are those before the DRD circuit?" Yes. The DRDs are also very nice amps, though, IMO. Of those, I have heard the 2A3 and 45 versions, but not the 300B. Wavelength equipment is fine stuff, for sure. I haven't heard the Gemini, and although I think I might personally prefer an amp designed very specifically toward a certain triode (for this kind of amp), I'm sure they are great. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Erik, I am a bit late in doing this but I want to give you a very big public THANK YOU for all of the wonderful assistance you provide to members of this forum. Often the topics discussed here turn into a cat fight over personal preferences, but the generosity you've shown to James and I (and MANY others) by contributing your time, energy, and effort is a reminder of why this place can be special. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamer Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 Greg: "Are those before the DRD circuit?" Yes. The DRDs are also very nice amps, though, IMO. Of those, I have heard the 2A3 and 45 versions, but not the 300B. Wavelength equipment is fine stuff, for sure. I haven't heard the Gemini, and although I think I might personally prefer an amp designed very specifically toward a certain triode (for this kind of amp), I'm sure they are great. Erik Eric, I see that Gordan Rankin doesnt offer the option of both tubes,the amp is now optimized for one or the other.Wonder what the difference in sound is.Could it reflect the availability of the 45 tube? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbsl Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 I also want to say THANK YOU Erik for taking a look at the amps to make sure there was no shipping damage. Erik has explained many things about SET amps and has helped in learning me about SET amps. This will be my first experiment with SET amps and I"m looking forward to it. I also want to THANK Kevin for packing them so well! I have a Cayin TA 30 tube amp which you can pull two tubes out and run it with 4 watts. So I have a idea of what 4 watts can do volume wise. I have had about 50 percent of equipment damaged in shipping so knowing Erik was going to look these over was a big relief. I also want to THANK Kevin for packing them so well! After I pick up the amps this Sat I will post what I think and post pics of the amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamer Posted March 2, 2006 Share Posted March 2, 2006 xman, I am looking forward to you impressions. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 Greg, I've owned the WL Gemini PF monoblocks and they were among the best amps I've ever owned.I did prefer the sound of the 45 tube over the 2A3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbsl Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I almost boght a pair of Welborne Labs DRD 45s last year but had to pay some bills first. If I really like these Moondogs then maybe next year I'll try em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted March 3, 2006 Author Share Posted March 3, 2006 Kevin/James: I really enjoy this kind of thing, and am happy to help when I can. Building an entire amp or pair of them takes a bit more time, but the Moondogs are familiar beasts to me. Honestly, I considered selling my pair a few years ago, but I knew I would regret it if I did. The shunt or parallel-feed approach is really good sounding, and I have a friend who is borrowing the pair of JFL Horus parafeed 2A3 amps I made about three years ago. He seems to prefer them -- and by a pretty big margin -- to the Transcendent SE OTL amps he owns (which I have had here while the Horus are at his house). It's interesting too, that so many people I know who really liked SE 2A3 amps, came to quickly prefer the sound of the 45. I agree that, even at half the output of the 2A3, the 45 is a really great tube. I'm going to listen to James' Moondogs another time this evening using the DC-1 processor ShawnF. kindly loaned to us while he works on the center channel sputtering/popping problem that developed with mine. My own 6SN7 preamp is a decent sounding preamp, but seems more prone to RFI and EMI problems than the Lexicon. Erik edit: You're both very welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I'll tag on to the Erik appreciation society too - he was kind enough to send me some tubes for my pre a while ago (to Greece mind you) and wouldn't take a dime for it. Definitely one of the good guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbsl Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I am currious how my Luxman preamp will sound with them.[^o)] My L-505f sounds really good with my Cayin and has almost no hiss. I need to get some better tubes(using EH 12AU7) for my Ground Grid tube preamp cause the Luxman smokes the GG. With better tubes I think I will like using my GG tube preamp. Any suggestions on a 12AU7s that will not cost huge amounts? Well I will use both preamps with the Moondogs and post the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playntheblues Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I have to jump on the Erik band wagon as well. Erik has helped me build the transcendent pre, with lots of phone support. Erik your awesome. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cut-Throat Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I also have received a lot of help and tips from Eric as well. I still have my Moondogs that Eric helped me quiet down. I have not visited this forum very often in the last couple years, until a few days ago, one of my friends pointed me to the Bob Crites Tweeter thread. After reading this thread, I ordered a pair of the Tweeters for my Khorn/Altec Speakers. I may be visiting this forum more often, when I finish my Khorn listening room in the next few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I see that Gordan Rankin doesnt offer the option of both tubes,the amp is now optimized for one or the other.Wonder what the difference in sound is.Could it reflect the availability of the 45 tube? Greg It think it has do do more with the fact that the 45 and the 2A3 needs different primary impedance for the output transformer. The 45 is happy with a 5K load and the 2A3 is happy with a 2.5K-3K load. In the case of the Gemini 45/2A3 it was optimized for a 45. The 2A3 was there as a "possible option" but not an optimized one. It's easier to build an "optimized" 2A3/300B amp than it is for a 45/2A3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamer Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I see that Gordan Rankin doesnt offer the option of both tubes,the amp is now optimized for one or the other.Wonder what the difference in sound is.Could it reflect the availability of the 45 tube? Greg It think it has do do more with the fact that the 45 and the 2A3 needs different primary impedance for the output transformer. The 45 is happy with a 5K load and the 2A3 is happy with a 2.5K-3K load. In the case of the Gemini 45/2A3 it was optimized for a 45. The 2A3 was there as a "possible option" but not an optimized one. It's easier to build an "optimized" 2A3/300B amp than it is for a 45/2A3. Thanks, I wondered about that,I was hoping it was the other way around in favor of the 2A3. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I see that Gordan Rankin doesnt offer the option of both tubes,the amp is now optimized for one or the other.Wonder what the difference in sound is.Could it reflect the availability of the 45 tube? Greg It think it has do do more with the fact that the 45 and the 2A3 needs different primary impedance for the output transformer. The 45 is happy with a 5K load and the 2A3 is happy with a 2.5K-3K load. In the case of the Gemini 45/2A3 it was optimized for a 45. The 2A3 was there as a "possible option" but not an optimized one. It's easier to build an "optimized" 2A3/300B amp than it is for a 45/2A3. Makes perfect sense! Its like the well known companies that build Class A zero feedback amps and put a switch or adjustable control to add feedback to potray how bad feedback sounds. You can't design a zero feedback amp and just zap some feedback to it expecting it to perform optimally. The same can be said the Triode/UL switches like I put on my amps. The table is leaned toward UL since I optimised for this operation because I prefer it. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted March 3, 2006 Share Posted March 3, 2006 I'd also like to thank Erik for the extremely generous support he has provided over the years. Not only did he check a few items I had purchased before they went on their way to Germany, he also made me aware of a company called Transcendent Sound and built the amps mentioned in my sig. It has always been a pleaure communicating with him and reading his posts......even if some of the more technical stuff went right over my head....[]. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted March 3, 2006 Author Share Posted March 3, 2006 "It's easier to build an "optimized" 2A3/300B amp than it is for a 45/2A3." I think so too. That's why I said 'personally' that I would prefer one designed for a specific tube. The 2A3 is very much like two paralleled 45s -- if not nearly exactly -- something which is reflected in the plate resistance differences between the two. I would have to check to confirm, but I think the EP output transformer primary windings on my Moondogs are 3.4K ohms. It's why I was seriously contemplating using them as 300B amps, with some minor changes that would include a regulated 5 VDC supply for the filaments. Concerning the difference in sound: I have found the 2A3 to be probably slightly more balanced top-to-bottom, and one of the reasons for the perceived greater top end extension or clarity (just from my own perspective) of the 45 might have to do with the mildly lighter output in the LF range. Midrange quality of the 45 is really superb, IMO, and with the right speakers is really nice all around. Lots of people I know who began with the 2A3 have come to prefer the 45. I have a friend who has had MANY SE 2A3 amps, and his long-time favorite is a Tucker-designed 45 with parallel-feed output and active plate loading. Guy did mention he liked the Gemini, though, so it still must have been a great sounding amplifier. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted March 3, 2006 Author Share Posted March 3, 2006 "You can't design a zero feedback amp and just zap some feedback to it expecting it to perform optimally." I think this may very well be true. I think feedback more often than not gets a pretty bad rap. However, I think careful use of feedback can be a very important tool, and absolutely does not 'automatically,' as some seem to believe, point to an inferior product. The bridged single-ended OTL amps I've been using from Transcendent Sound use a certain amount of feedback, and they sound horrible without it. Although I think they are the best single ended amplifiers I have used, others might find them too revealing or detailed (both of those words might have subjective interpretations). They sound both unlike any transformer-coupled tube amp or transistor amp I have ever heard. ...but the digital Teac, which has virtually no weight or heat, and certainly no vacuum tubes, let alone vacuum tube rectifiers, may well be the best of them all. It's also easily the least prone to RFI and EMI, and cable-related problems are non-existent for me. Of course others may think differently on this point, and that's as it should be. I'm speaking from my own experience over many years, based on my own tastes and preferences. That said, James' Moondogs are playing right now with the Lexicon processor in 2-channel bypass mode, and the sound is just great. Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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