Klipschorn Veneer Very Dry - Worried Now

[sunnysal]

nobody wants to chime in on care/retoration of birch raw finishes? tony

[meagain]

I only know that birch is tricky to stain. They get blotchy. The wood absorbs differently in parts. If you look on woodworking forums, there will be huge discussions on this. If I were to stain mine, I'd go with something extremely light. No darker than say - a golden oak type. I would put some form of wood conditioner on it prior to staining with the goal to minimize blotchyness.

My humble opinion.

[sunnysal]

no stain desired. I just want to maintain the wood, not let it dry out, keep it clean, etc. tony

[hsosdrum]

Back in the late 70s I re-oiled my KB-WOs using only Casey's Tru-Oil, as recommended by Klipsch at that time (they said that Casey's is what they used to oil the speakers at the factory).

Apply the oil in a fine, even coat using an old cotton T-shirt. (I can't stress enough that the coats must be evenly applied.) After each coat dries thoroughly you need to feel all of the freshly-oiled surfaces for rough areas and sand those areas gently with 400-600 grit wet-dry sandpaper (I used the paper dry, which produces dusty residue that's easier to clean-up in a living room than the residue produced by wet-sanding).

The first couple of coats will raise a fair amount of grain in the veneer and the speakers will feel a bit rough, but once you get three or four coats on the speakers the grain will no longer raise and they will require very little sanding. By the time I had my 10th coat on the speakers the finish had taken-on a deep, rich glow and every surface looked like it was coated in glass. And once oiled in this manner the finish NEVER changes and requires no rejuvenation or periodic maintenance (beyond dusting).

This is a long-term process (it took me over a year and several bottles of Casey's Tru-Oil to get the 10 coats applied) but once you complete it your speakers will have a finish that will last a lifetime and will look like a piece of fine furniture.

P.S. I sold those K-WOs about 10 years ago. Wish I could still use them, but my room then didn't have useable corners (neither does my current home). 20 years ago I replaced the K-WOs with C-WOs, and 10 years after that I converted the 2-channel system to a 5.1-channel home theater system and replaced the C-WOs with KT-LCRs and KT-SURs. I'm still using the C-WOs (modified to Cornwall II standard) as studio monitors in my recording studio. Life is good...

[WMcD]

Tony,

I didn't comment because I wondered if there was much to say. I do use birch ply quite a bit for construction of speakers but then I paint it.

As I see it, raw birch (or even pine) is subject to oxidation, dust, spills, maybe even finger grime. If the unfinished look is to be preserved the only thing to do is to apply lacquer. There may be a question of why lacquer is prefered and oils are not.

Most of the following is from reading woodworking books and a little experience, and a little conjecture.

Oils, shellac, and varnishes have some orange color of their own. Lacquer is sometimes described as "water white". People point out that it really is not water or white. Smile.

Looking at a can full of these materials you can see that the oils, etc. do indeed seem orange or brown or generally "warm". Clear lacquer does look like water.

None the less it is hard to image that a thin coat of the warm stuff has a significant tint effect. Yet when put on wood they do give contrast and warmth.

The kicker is that even naptha (ligher fluid, which is very clear like water) does impart contrast and warmth to the wood.

People say that if you want to test what a piece of wood will look like with a finish (and I think execpt for lacquer) all you have to do is put on some naptha. It will eventually evaporate and then the wood sample is not permantly altered.

My conclusion is that living wood uses self generated oils to protect the cellulose (sp) from water and at the same time have the interior chamber to move water. It is sort of like you could use an oil soaked paper bag to hold water. (?).

In any event, it seems that clear lacquer does not invade the cellulose. On the other hand, oils do get ito the cellullose because in the wood's past life it was made to live with its own natural oil, and this alters the optics I.e the light does get to the celulouse and bounces back.. (Too late for spelling) And the warmth or darkness and contrast is an optical effect of varied cellulose in the wood.

Lacquer some how fails to invade and we don't "see" the structure of the underlying wood.. Maybe it is because there is no mechanism in the dead cell which likes it So the effect is that lacquer does not darken wood.

Did I just hijack my own thread? The bottom line is that there is no care for raw wood except to put on a coat of something. Lacquer is the thing which makes it look like unfiniished wood.

- - - - -

On another matter, it is true that Watco does not build a finish, very much. That is not to say that it can't be used to fill the grain in wood. I have an article where the author descibes how you can put it on with 400 wet or dry paper to set up a slurry of wood fiber to fill the grain.

Gil

[J M O N]

I have a set of raw birch I got a while back. I was planning on giving them a complete stain and finish job. I cleaned them up with Murphy's Soap Oil, which also moisturized them very well. When I saw how nice they turned out, I dumped the staining plans and decided to keep them as is and just oil when needed. The blonde beauties looked so nice, I even considered keeping them instead of the walnut oil. Alas, I've since decided to keep the walnut and will probably eventually be selling these. Who says birch is not as nice as the other veneers???

[meagain]

You were smart to not stain them. I like those. What year are they and what's up with the grill color? That's not cane is it?

[Klipschguy]

JMON,

Those Khorns look incredible! I have no complaints about that finish. The cane grills are a nice touch too.

Gil,

You mentioned using Watco and wet/dry sand paper to form a slurry to fill grain pores. That's what I've been advocating from the beginning (that 600 grit thing). I don't fill the grain completely, just enough for fine grain structure in lieu of course grain. Nice, very nice.

Andy

[J M O N]

meagain: They are 1987 models, and yes, that is cane grill cloth.

Andy: Thanks for the compliment. They actually look better in person than the photo shows. I think that cane grill goes quite well with the finish.

[cjgeraci]

"I've been in the paint business for the last 20 years and refinished many antiques. You've received all kinds of advice here much of which is very good. If you see any evidence that any small scratches or dents appear somewhat clouded there is a good chance they have a lacquer finish. From your description it sounds like they are more likely oiled.

I recently purchased a pair of Klipsch Forte II's in oiled oak.

The finish was dried out and little depth in the color.

I initially only wanted to clean the wood and add some lustre as they are in the house and it's winter.

I used Pledge with orange oil. The orange oil is already in the pledge as you buy it and will say so in the bottle. Mineral spirits will not remove the stain and it will have a fiarly strong dor that will stay in the wood for awhile. It will not any better in removing dirt etc.

The orange oil will cut through and remove any light grease, dirt or grime and at the same time add some lustre to the wood. Just apply enough to wet the wood and rub thoroughly with a cotton cloth.

If you see the cloth becoming fairly dirty repeat the process with a clean cloth. Then follow by rubbing with a dry clean cloth to remove any excess. You may be surprised with how good they look. This will also be appropriate if they are lacquer."

Randy:

Thanks for your recommendation. I wanted to put some life back into the veneer on my '77 Belles, but I did not want to mess with BLO (at least at this point). Yesterday, I tried Pledge rejuvinating oil with Orange Oil on all of my Belles, and my rear Altec Valencias. I am very pleased with the results. The oil slightly darkened the wood tone, but in reality, my Belles are now the tone of most others I have seen. In other words, restoring them back to original look. Also, without any lingering odor (other than an "orange smell" for a couple of hours - gone this morning.)

A nice remedy. Appreciate the tip.

Carl.

[hach13]

Carl.

Glad this helped you out.

If you want to further enhance the appearance wait till it warms up a bit and you can work in a well ventilated area.

Then I'd suggest going the tung oil route.

I like tung oil over BLO in that it will dry faster and form a harder finish.

Be sure you use a pre-thinned tung oil which will have the consistancy of a light to medium thick oil. Pure tung oil is more like molasses.

Apply the tung oil with a saturated rag or a brush and allow to become slightly tacky. Then wipe off the excess. There should not be so much tack that it's difficult to wipe. Wipe just enough to remove the excess tung oil. If the cloth becomes damp with tung oil that's ok just continue to wipe with the final wipe being in the direction with the grain. They should appear like you applied a light wet coat of oil at this stage.

Allow to dry for at least 8 hours.

Lightly sand with 320 or 400 gritt paper. If you use the black wet/dry paper dampen the paper with a small amount of tung oil and then follow by wiping off any excess oil without allowing it to tack. Only very light sanding will be required.

If needed repeat the process. Each coat will increase the sheen and depth of color. Id' suggest at least 2 coats. On the last coat you can rub the excess off to the point you are buffing the finish.

Once finished in this manner an occasonal wipe or dusting with the orange oild will maintain an excellent appearance

Be sure and lay the wiping rags out flat outside or drape them over the side of a garbage can to allow them to dry. If you clump them up they can and will likely begin to smolder and catch fire. The other alternative is to put them in a sealed bag with enough water to dampen them. Drying them out is the better method.

If this is done inside with good ventilation or outside and then brought inside - lit candles will go a long way in covering and helping rid any objectionable odor.

I'm planning on going this route with my Forte's once it warms up.

Randy

[Parrot]

Randy,

How much $ would you charge Forum members to sand & oil their speakers?

On another point, it doesn't matter what Klipsch uses at the factory. Their reasons may be different to what would make sense in a home environment. Klipsch is going to take into consideration the amount of man-hours (or minutes) that go into applying a finish, but that's not all that important to an individual.

[hach13]

Parrot,

It would depend on the speaker and the condition. It's not very practical with the shipping issue and the size and weight of the speakers.

If someone is interested and willing to deliver and pick-up, I might consider it. I'm located in Burlington, IA.

It actually is a fairly easy process with tung oil - justtakes some time and a warm well ventilated area.

Randy