Pink? Noise Tests..... And Tone Uniformity Between Speaker Pairs

[NOSValves]

Craig - Yes, we must have different types of Taurus in us. For instance, during a phone convo, I allow the person to finish their sentences. []

Well I have one basic rule I let people finish when they are making sense []

[meagain]

Craig - Yes, we must have different types of Taurus in us. For instance, during a phone convo, I allow the person to finish their sentences. []

Well I have one basic rule I let people finish when they are making sense []

OK. (she says as she stares knowingly at Craig's avatar).

[NOSValves]

Lisa,

Do you know the story behind the avatar?

Craig

[meagain]

Of course... unless you created a version for using it yourself.

[Deang]

I'm sorry, but I have lost track of what equipment you are using.

If you are using the Peach for a preamp, remember it doesn't have an inverter built into as most tube pre's I have used.

You have to roll your speaker wires somewhere or you will be out of phase. On my system I have the red wire attached to the Plus on the VRD's and the Black attached to ground on the VRD.

On the speakers I take the black wire and attach it to the + and the red wire goes to the -.

Good Luck.

Danny

I don't think so, at least Mark doesn't mention it in the manual. It would be very uncharacteristic of him to leave out a detail like that.

[Hardhead]

meagain--

Based on what you've said about when the problem occurs, I agree with Dean's original suggestion, perhaps the only suggestion you haven't tried: swap the crossovers.

If the problem moves with the crossover, you've identified it as something wrong with the crossover. If it doesn't move, it's most likely a problem with the woofer wiring or the woofer itself. If you never hear the problem again after the crossover move, then you've somehow "fixed" it.

[meagain]

Hardhead - I'll do that. I have the top lid off the khorns do to that quickly/easily if/when things go South again. But with my luck, it'll resolve itself just when I go to do this or magically fix during the swap. It was our initial proclamation but I poo-poo'd the concept, blaming our connectors, speaker wire, interconnects, potential amp issue, and everything under the sun. Only now can I fully eliminate all that. As of this weekend, it's down to the speaker or crossover (or maybe electricity into the house?). Given the history the problem and when it started... the crossover is a possibility. The sound quality is erratic and the problem sort of fades in & out instead of a 'boom'. I've no idea if this is technically possible. It's just very weird all around. I was getting what I felt particularily good sound last night and I've no idea why, I was enjoying it then picked up my laptop - was surfing/reading and felt 'moved', looked up into the air to 'look' at the music and said to myself 'WTF?". I didn't even cook dinner because I didn't want to lose the opportunity, knowing it'll probably magically deteriorate later or the next day. I "think" if I had a local Klipschy come over during that time - they might say I've been crazy, that it sounds good. Then I'd have to beg them to come over again.

[Deang]

Well, those networks were in my system for about a month before I sent them to you, but I guess anything is possible -- maybe it's better if you just send them back to me for some basic testing and listening.

You know, it almost sounds like a stray wire somewhere -- a single strand crossing over and barely touching another wire won't always short the output.

[NOSValves]

Hardhead - I'll do that. I have the top lid off the khorns do to that quickly/easily if/when things go South again. But with my luck, it'll resolve itself just when I go to do this or magically fix during the swap. It was our initial proclamation but I poo-poo'd the concept, blaming our connectors, speaker wire, interconnects, potential amp issue, and everything under the sun. Only now can I fully eliminate all that. As of this weekend, it's down to the speaker or crossover (or maybe electricity into the house?). Given the history the problem and when it started... the crossover is a possibility. The sound quality is erratic and the problem sort of fades in & out instead of a 'boom'. I've no idea if this is technically possible. It's just very weird all around. I was getting what I felt particularily good sound last night and I've no idea why, I was enjoying it then picked up my laptop - was surfing/reading and felt 'moved', looked up into the air to 'look' at the music and said to myself 'WTF?". I didn't even cook dinner because I didn't want to lose the opportunity, knowing it'll probably magically deteriorate later or the next day. I "think" if I had a local Klipschy come over during that time - they might say I've been crazy, that it sounds good. Then I'd have to beg them to come over again.

This is exactly why I keep suggesting a "two wheel cart" Slide your 100% stock Lacalas in there and sit back for a few days and see if the problem surfaces again. If it doesn't you KNOW the speakers/crossovers are the problem. Also this would give you a chance to audition the Lascala in the corners where they belong in the "real way". No quick try's.. this gives you time to over come your preconcieved notions. Kills two birds with one stone. You may find the problem has nothing to do with the speakers for all any of us know.

It is almost an absolute that what ever this proble it always holding your system back to some degree. It may become more noticable at times but I bet its always present to some degree.

Craig

[NOSValves]

Also doing the above would allow if you found after a few days that the problem was gone with the 100% stock Lascalas to insert Dean's crossover in the Lascala and see if the problem appears. If it does we have found the culprit. If it doesn't then something is wrong with the drivers in your Khorn! A simply process of elimination!

END ALL THE MADNESS.

[meagain]

Craig - But I see holes in your 2-wheel cart test.

1. The problem might not appear for 2 weeks, a month, 1.5 months. If it doesn't reproduce on the 'Scalas - I'll never know when to call the test done.

2. When it broke, I had enough time to test it with other gear. 2 preamps, 2 cdp's. The only constant is the VRDs and the issue existed well before they arrived. We have all new interconnects, good connectors, new speakerwire. I can't blame these things anymore. I just can't. In my mind, there is zero other option than speakers or crossovers.

3. I'd be taking the problem items out of the mix & replacing with a new entity. IMO, it's best to keep the khorns in and wait for recurrance. Something I KNOW will recurr. I do not know (or think) it will recur with a new set of speaks.

4. Plus... if it happens again, I can switch the crossovers just by leaning over the top.

5. If it doesn't reproduce on the 'Scalas - I'm still back to square one. And will have to test the khorns again and wait for it to recurr.

It can't be the gear or wires/interconnects from that gear. I know what I've suspected from the moment it started the first time, but poo-poo'd it - blaming it on gear/wireing, but now I can't.

But I agree it's highly possible this thing is affecting my sound albeit on a more minimal scale between breaking.

[mikebse2a3]

Hey Lisa

Sounds like you pretty well have eliminated equipment issues as the problem but one thought came to me about narrowing down and speeding up locating where your problem is and eliminating any doubt about equipment or wireing issues.

I would suggest you go ahead and Swap your Khorns from Left and Right sides so that next time it happens you will know without any doubt that the equipment/wireing are OK and at the same time if the problem last long enough you will still be able to work on the problem when it does happen again. By doing this if the problem swaps sides it is definitly in the problem speaker and if it stays in the same side then of course equipment/wireing issues would be where to look. Again just swap the speakers and leave everything from the speaker wires back as is.

mike[]

[meagain]

Mike - This makes sense. It certainly won't set back the process and is relatively easy to do. I leave the speaker wires in place and NOT move the speaks with the wire - yes?

[mikebse2a3]

Mike - This makes sense. It certainly won't set back the process and is relatively easy to do. I leave the speaker wires in place and NOT move the speaks with the wire - yes?

Yes Lisa,

Only Swap the Speakers; Leave all the equipment and wireing as it is now so that way if the problem still shows up on the same speaker that is now having problems then it must be in that speaker.

Example: If your Right Speaker has the intermitent problem and you move it to the Left Side/Channel and the problem shows up in the Left next time it happens then the problem is definitly with that Speaker.

You can use this swapping method to help diagnose your problem also if it does prove to be the Speaker. In the above example lets say the problem proves to be in the Speaker that you moved to the Left channel. You could next just swap the complete Top Sections (Squawker,Tweeter and Crossover) only leaving the Bass sections in their present locations. Now this time if the problem stayed in the Left side your problem would be in the Bass Section. If the problem moved to the Right side you would know that the problem is in that Top Section (ie: Squawker, Tweeter, Crossover). As you can see you can keep doing this (Swapping with the Crossovers or Tweeters or Squawker Drivers) till you finally get to the problem.

Intermitent problems can be tough to run down but eventually you can find it this way. I actually hope when it shows up again it will last long enough for you to track it down but in the mean time you can have things swaped while your ready for it to happen again which will allow you to track the problem down quicker.

mike[]

[NOSValves]

Craig - But I see holes in your 2-wheel cart test.

1. The problem might not appear for 2 weeks, a month, 1.5 months. If it doesn't reproduce on the 'Scalas - I'll never know when to call the test done.

Come on you haven't had this stuff that long. I know of at least few times its happened in the last week or so. Get off the duff and start doing........

2. When it broke, I had enough time to test it with other gear. 2 preamps, 2 cdp's. The only constant is the VRDs and the issue existed well before they arrived. We have all new interconnects, good connectors, new speakerwire. I can't blame these things anymore. I just can't. In my mind, there is zero other option than speakers or crossovers.

My point exactly. Get the speakers out of the equation and be patient and see if it crops up with a completely different set of speakers.

3. I'd be taking the problem items out of the mix & replacing with a new entity. IMO, it's best to keep the khorns in and wait for recurrance. Something I KNOW will recurr. I do not know (or think) it will recur with a new set of speaks.

And we will be posting about this for another 6 months.

4. Plus... if it happens again, I can switch the crossovers just by leaning over the top.

Chances are the problem will disspear when you switch.

5. If it doesn't reproduce on the 'Scalas - I'm still back to square one. And will have to test the khorns again and wait for it to recurr.

No your not. By switching the speakers you can test the crossovers and then if you see fit you could use the driver out of the Lascalas to put in the Khorn they are the same you know? You will never find it at the rate you are now going. I also think that this problem always exist to some extent your never completely happy with the sound are you not??

It can't be the gear or wires/interconnects from that gear. I know what I've suspected from the moment it started the first time, but poo-poo'd it - blaming it on gear/wireing, but now I can't.

Good at least something has been accomplished.

But I agree it's highly possible this thing is affecting my sound albeit on a more minimal scale between breaking.

Yup

[J.4knee]

This is exactly why I keep suggesting a "two wheel cart" Slide your 100% stock Lacalas in there and sit back for a few days and see if the problem surfaces again. If it doesn't you KNOW the speakers/crossovers are the problem. Also this would give you a chance to audition the Lascala in the corners where they belong in the "real way". No quick try's.. this gives you time to over come your preconcieved notions. Kills two birds with one stone. You may find the problem has nothing to do with the speakers for all any of us know.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

It is almost an absolute that what ever this proble it always holding your system back to some degree. It may become more noticable at times but I bet its always present to some degree.

Craig

Also doing the above would allow if you found after a few days that the problem was gone with the 100% stock Lascalas to insert Dean's crossover in the Lascala and see if the problem appears. If it does we have found the culprit. If it doesn't then something is wrong with the drivers in your Khorn! A simply process of elimination!

END ALL THE MADNESS.

.

Kinda hard to argue with this logic. So I would suggest you follow it!

[meagain]

Craig - I must say I'm very reluctant to replace the khorns with the LaScalas. But I see where you're going with this. I think. Riddle me this... if indeed the problem was coming from the right speaker (lack of low end). Then switching the crossovers now and awaiting a failure - would essentially be the same as changing to LaScalas. Yes? If the drop out moves to the left speak from the right - it's a done deal. Yes?

I'm going to send you an email.

[Deang]

No, it's not the same. If you do what Craig is saying, and the failure occurs -- you absolutely 100% know it's not being caused by something in the Klipschorn.

[Parrot]

We need to rule out that your house is audio-haunted.

One method to do this would be to take all of your equipment (including all wires) out of your house (must be totally out of your house, not just in another room) and then bring in all different equipment. Maybe someone from the Klipsch Forum in the Chicago area would loan you his equipment.

If the new equipment doesn't re-create the problems, we know that it has something to do with the old equipment, and not your home.

Then you need to set up the old equipment in a different house (a loaner from a Chicago-area Klipscher?) to see if the problem shows up again. If it does, the equipment has bad karma and you might want to consider selling it off. Remember, if just one *part* of any of the equipment in question was manufactured by someone incompatible with a Taurus, namely an Aries, Libra, Gemini, or Sagittarius, you'll have unsatisfactory synergy.

If your house is audio-haunted, it will make the new equipment malfunction as well. If that's the case, you have the option of moving to somewhere else or going with a SET amp. As all SET amps are notoriously noisy, it *may* be enough to mask (not eliminate) other audio problems.

The way to look at the SET approach is like the old tried and true treatment of curing a migraine: Squeeze the nerves on your neck until you feel excruciating pain, and then hold that position until the agony overloads your system and you don't notice your headache anymore.

[NOSValves]

We need to rule out that your house is audio-haunted.

One method to do this would be to take all of your equipment (including all wires) out of your house (must be totally out of your house, not just in another room) and then bring in all different equipment. Maybe someone from the Klipsch Forum in the Chicago area would loan you his equipment.

If the new equipment doesn't re-create the problems, we know that it has something to do with the old equipment, and not your home.

Then you need to set up the old equipment in a different house (a loaner from a Chicago-area Klipscher?) to see if the problem shows up again. If it does, the equipment has bad karma and you might want to consider selling it off. Remember, if just one *part* of any of the equipment in question was manufactured by someone incompatible with a Taurus, namely an Aries, Libra, Gemini, or Sagittarius, you'll have unsatisfactory synergy.

If your house is audio-haunted, it will make the new equipment malfunction as well. If that's the case, you have the option of moving to somewhere else or going with a SET amp. As all SET amps are notoriously noisy, it *may* be enough to mask (not eliminate) other audio problems.

The way to look at the SET approach is like the old tried and true treatment of curing a migraine: Squeeze the nerves on your neck until you feel excruciating pain, and then hold that position until the agony overloads your system and you don't notice your headache anymore.

Hilarious........But what if the problem is the nut behind the VC []