tidmack Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 Hey guys, Just read a thread in the Subwoofers section and many there mentioned they leave their subs on all the time. That got me wondering: is it better to keep equipment on all the time? I currently will power up my system (Mac 2105 SS, 113 preamp SS, LaScalas, and Ultra 2 subs/amp) when I get home from work, but it gets turned off before I go to bed. I guess my thought has always been why have it on if I'm not using it? But, I'm curious to know if equipment takes a beating by being turned off and on. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubeGuy Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 In my experience the answer is Yes with SS and Yes with qualifications for tubes. When equipment is turned on the power supplies have a burst of energy as the caps charge and voltage comes up to operating parameters. These surges can affect many components downstream. Additionally, bias currents can vary wildly as the power supply and circuits come up to proper voltages. Solid state is not as critical as tubes in this regard. Many/most companies have "soft start" circuits to minimize turn on surges. Solid state still benefits from being left on as idle currents need time to settle down and components come up to operating temp. This affects sound quality in many ways depending on the circuit design and component choices. My experience has been that solid state needs MORE time than tube gear to warm up and sound their best. I've found that solid state amps need 24-72 hours to sound near their peak. (some people say they need more time) Given more time, the sound improves slightly. Initially solid state can sound somewhat strident/sterile with a slightly elevated noise floor and less of a three deminsional soundstage. This statement is NOT a blast against solid state! This is in comparison to the sound improvement after a lengthy warm up. After a few days the soundstage has opened wide and deep, bass becomes tighter and rounded/realistic and nuances in the performance emerge, probably due to the lower noise floor. Solid state also benefits in that it's not subject to the extremes of thermal stress that tubes are proned to. Bottom line for me was to leave them on unless I wasn't going to be listening for a week or more. Tube gear experiences much of the same phenomina but I've found that after 24 hours there doesn't appear to be any additional benefit - They are at their peak performance, with all of the proper warm up benefits as mentioned above. Tubes are sensitve to thermal shock and will degrade, and fail, over time due to thermal stress. You have trade offs to contend with. Once a tube is put into service, it starts a gradual degredation. The heaters have a given lifetime that they will boil off electrons. This will generally be the arbitor for the tubes life span. You can get many thousands of hours of service life from a tube depending on how the designer is operating the tube in the circuit. Additionally, you have a number of internal connections to grids plates etc that can weaken with constant on/off cycles due thermal stresses. The connections can become brittle and weak and break, causing open circuits, and worst of all shorts within the tube. Some designers allow you to disconnect the plate voltage on output tubes, essentially cutting the tube off, allowing you keep the heaters and power supplies at optimum temperature while not wearing the tube out. With tube power amps (without the ability to turn off plate voltages, I let them warm up for a day before a big/critical listening session. Here's the big tradeoff - Tube life vs. instant peak performance. If the amps allow plate voltage to be turned off, I run them as I would solid state. With tube pre amps, I leave them on as I would ss. The tubes are cheaper than expensive power tubes and I feel the lower noise floor of a properly warmed pre amp is critical to serious listening. I hope this helps. BIG DISCLAIMER: This is an area that has many different opinions. This is just what my ears tell me with the equipment that I'm familiar with. The bottom line is for you to try different scenarios to see what works best with your equipment and what trade offs your willing to make. Happy listening and don't stress over it too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 Tubeguy - nice post! I have a perhaps silly question about this..... Say you want to let gear warm up for 2 hours before a sit down. Is there a difference between tuning it on & running music for the 2 hours vs. turning it on with no music? Does the latter constitute a proper warm up and is it as sufficient? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 I listen every evening after dinner. I flip everything on when I get home and when I settle in to listen some 60-90 minutes later I find that my system is about 98% of the way "there." This is with all tube electronics. I also flip on my turntable which takes about 30-40 minutes to fully get up to speed and stabilize. On a weekend when I know I'll be home most of the time I will turn everything on on Saturday morning and leave it on until I go to bed on Sunday evening. If I am going to be out of the house for any really significant amount of time over the weekend I will turn the stuff off when I leave. I really don't see any benefit to waiting more than an hour or so with tube gear--any further improvements found after 24 or 72 hours are very small . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 I listen every evening after dinner. I flip everything on when I get home and when I settle in to listen some 60-90 minutes later I find that my system is about 98% of the way "there." This is with all tube electronics. I also flip on my turntable which takes about 30-40 minutes to fully get up to speed and stabilize. On a weekend when I know I'll be home most of the time I will turn everything on on Saturday morning and leave it on until I go to bed on Sunday evening. If I am going to be out of the house for any really significant amount of time over the weekend I will turn the stuff off when I leave. I really don't see any benefit to waiting more than an hour or so with tube gear--any further improvements found after 24 or 72 hours are very small . . . My policy matches Allans to a tee! Little waste maximum usage. I think leaving gear on 24/7 is very selfish from an energy standpoint. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 I leave my tubes on when I am around on the weekend, otherwise they are on from when I get home and critical listening is after dinner, laundry, filing, clean-up, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 come home from work...turn on the tubes...sort the mail...put on a CD...go up and play on the computer, do little household chores...leave tubes on for the evening (this kills me to do) then listen again right before bed, checking on the computer to see what I've missed... ...Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 I, too shut my tube system off when I'm not home or when I'm asleep. Plus with all the lightning storms we have here, why take the chance of having my system ruined if I'm not here to monitor it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidmack Posted April 14, 2006 Author Share Posted April 14, 2006 Interesting stuff everyone, I appreciate the insight. I'll probably keep doing what I'm doing now (one when I get home from work, off before bed, on most of weekend), but it's interesting to learn that even my SS equipment requires warm-up. Cool! Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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