The last flight of United 93

[Colin]

Online Slate magazine has a pretty good write-up about this movie. (http://www.slate.com/id/2140690/) Except the author doesnt say that watching the events of 9/11 unfold is eerie. It is like watching that horrific day all over again with the clarity of a horror movie. We know what the bad guy is going to do next. We know the innocent, happy girl is going to make a mistake, and despite our inner admonishments and hands clutching the theater seats, sure enough, like an idiot, she opens the wrong door.

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

With horror movies, we have the frustrating benefit of foresight. The director lets us in on the secret. With 9/11, we have the wretched frustration of hindsight.

First there is the Discovery Channels review of the 9/11 Commission Report, which found a damnable lack of foresight, intelligence co-operation and imagination in a defense system that already suffered multiple attacks from the same terrorist organization, including one previous attempt against the very same target! Then there is Thomas Friedmans book, The World is Flat. He details the extensive $400K, multi-team globalization project, which al Qaeda undertook to attack the towers, the Pentagon and the Capitol building.

In some respects, this is movie making at its best. Hand held video follows the terrorists through their daily prayers and preparations, nameless, faceless people board the plane amid scraps of conversations and phone calls. Air traffic control centers follow yellow markers on the screen. Bureaucrats shuffle papers and attend meetings. Then one plane is off the screen and nobody knows what is going on. Then another plane is off the air. United 93 taxi downs the run-way, preparing for take-off. Four young Arabs sit quietly in first class.

Another plane is off the screen. The military is alerted. A plane hits the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />WorldTradeCenter. The director is clinical about the timing and conversations of the events. His eye never wavers as the clock winds down to the inevitable. This isnt a roller-coaster. This is a grind.

Our government doesnt look bad. They just look woefully un-prepared. The mother of one of serial killer Jeffery Dahmers victims spoke in court. She said there was nothing wrong with her boy. Nothing prepares you for a monster like Dahmer.

So it was with the military and the air traffic control centers. Although Islamist extremists tried to bomb the WTC before and they successfully bombed the USS Cole, we never met a monster like bin Laden.

The director doesnt amplify the courage it took those soldiers of faith to dive head-long into an oblivion of structural steel. He juxtapositions the religious preparations of the terrorists with the last minute prayers of the doomed passengers.

And then it is over. You are left alone, in the dark, after a nightmare ride to death. The emptiness and the hollowness of their jihad inhibits you.

Neither side may be the moral right in this cultural war over globalization and scarce resources, but after watching this movie, you want war. You want justice and you want revenge. Unlike Tora, Tora, Tora or first and second Pearl Harbor movies, after watching United 93, it is easy to see how the schemers and manipulators gave us the war we got. I am not sure the Afghanistan war alone would have satisfied our national appetite for revenge.

[:@]

[Jay481985]

I did not watch the movie but I saw the trailer and it looks like a movie that even though you know what happens the suspense is still there......

Also remember Osama had his hands in the marine hotel bombing in Saudi Arabia a few years after Iraq that killed more soldiers than the first Gulf War.

[Colin]

Yes, the commission report is pretty damming. If you look at the attacks against US installations in the last 10 years, the preponderance could be traced to Islamic radicals and the worse were perpetrated by al Qeada. It is pretty obvious that our government is under attack, but the military never saw terrorism as a battlefield they could fight in[]

[Jay481985]

It's a shame that America basically invented terrorism and now we cannot contain it.......

Oh if you check flight 93 reviews on yahoo which lists all the major critics the lowest was b+ most were A- or so which is very very hard to get these days

[oldbuckster]

I am not looking to debate anything here, but Justice and Revenge, in this case are two different things. There is no Justice in invading Iraq, and what Revenge has been gained by it? Dead American Service People, 2401,countless injuries, families torn apart, and lie after lie, and Osama Bin Laden still roaming the face of the earth.

This movie is going to stir-up a hornets nest, those were brave people on that plane, doing what americans do, fighting for freedom. I know this will rekindle a cry for revenge, but we need to keep calm minds, and be sure when we seek revenge that it is just, and aimed at the right people, only then will we have Justice. God Bless America.

[Jay481985]

oldbuckster has said

BLIND REVENGE IS NO REVENGE AT ALL

[Fish]

I understand this movie is non political,thats good,thats the way it SHOULD stay.

[oldbuckster]

I understand this movie is non political,thats good,thats the way it SHOULD stay.

How can it stay non political, no one has answered for this crime against America. You cannot bury your head in the sand,and it will all go away.

[dkp]

There are a lot of heads buried in the sand these days...

Thanks for the review, Colin. It sounds like a must-see movie.

[kelA]

Is the movie just released at the theaters the same one that aired on A&E tonight?

[Fish]

I understand this movie is non political,thats good,thats the way it SHOULD stay.

How can it stay non political, no one has answered for this crime

against America. You cannot bury your head in the sand,and it will all

go away.

I was only pointig out that political opinions on the war have NOTHING

to do with people going about their lives and being murdered by the

MOST evil people on the planet.

I have no intention of burying my head in the sand,I'd prefer to turn sand to glass.

[oldbuckster]

I understand this movie is non political,thats good,thats the way it SHOULD stay.

How can it stay non political, no one has answered for this crime against America. You cannot bury your head in the sand,and it will all go away.

I was only pointig out that political opinions on the war have NOTHING to do with people going about their lives and being murdered by the MOST evil people on the planet.

I have no intention of burying my head in the sand,I'd prefer to turn sand to glass.

Are you trying to tell me 911 had nothing to do with invading Iraq? What are you using that glass for??? Making Pipes????

[Colin]

the sequence of events:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3067652

in detial:

http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/TotW/flight_93.html

an explanation of how movie was made and trailer:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12112802/site/newsweek/

[Jay481985]

gentlemen.....

[Amy]

Keep politics off this forum, please.

[oldbuckster]

Keep politics off this forum, please.

Amy, my reply was originally to Colin's first post, last paragraph. I made a fair reply and stand by it. Colin's review was excellent, as is most of his answers, and I was just pointing out the difference of Revenge and Justice. The whole 911 scenario is political,and to deny that it had nothing to do with using it to invade Iraq is wrong. I will, out of respect for you, drop it, but am disappointed that I must stop. People call others stupid, ignorant, and what have you, on this forum and nothing is said. I feel like."Thank You and Goodnight".

[dkp]

It's a shame that America basically invented terrorism and now we cannot contain it.......

How did America invent terrorism?

David

[Fish]

Keep politics off this forum, please.

Amy, my reply was originally to Colin's first post, last paragraph.

I made a fair reply and stand by it. Colin's review was excellent, as

is most of his answers, and I was just pointing out the difference of

Revenge and Justice. The whole 911 scenario is political,and to deny

that it had nothing to do with using it to invade Iraq is wrong. I

will, out of respect for you, drop it, but am disappointed that I must

stop. People call others stupid, ignorant, and what have you, on this

forum and nothing is said. I feel like."Thank You and Goodnight".

Oldbuck,this movie was NOT about IRAQ,you just drug your own political bs into it.

[Jay481985]

It's a shame that America basically invented terrorism and now we cannot contain it.......

How did America invent terrorism?

David

the revolutionary war........

I know this will incite alot of fight but. The code of warfare was prevalent up to the Revolutionary War. Soldiers were not allowed to engage officers. Officers could only engage officers, that is why up to then the Generals and higher ranks did not park their butts 1 mile away from the battlefield. The rules of engagement changed. When they still had line formation, there was a certain ettique to warfare. Even in the Civil War, people actually in the first battle brought their children and had a picnic to watch the battle of Bull Run. In their horror and disbelief they actually thought it to more a play until it happened.

This hurts me to say this too but the Surprise attack by George Washington crossing the Delware River on Chirstmas eve was a pretext to terrorism type idea. Remember terrorist theory goes to strike when you least suspect it. The British believed that no one would fight on Christmas day. But it happened.

Also definted by www.m-w.com Terrorism - : the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion.

The Boston Tea party comes to mind. And then the fact that John Hancock and the Founding Fathers signed a Declaration of Independence, Independence from the mother country. Actually an updated defintion used by law enforcement in this country defines terrorism and this comes straight out of my class called "Police" text book - " The unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a govern,ent, the civilian population, or a segment thereof, in the furtherance of political or social objective.

Domestic Terrorism is defined as "groups or individuals who operate without foreign direction within the United States and targets elements of the U.S Governement or citizens.

Do not get me wrong, I do not hate America or am anti patriotic. But our past is just like the saying "blood is blood," we had a history that people want to forget and other countries have history that everyone wants to forget. We as people of countries have governments that did not do what was "proper" and "necessary" always and sometimes our governments "looked the other way" But "we as Americans are beacon of light to the rest of the world" and should uphold our moral obligations too... Especially when we ignore certain "inalienable" rights afforded by United States Constitution to people like Padilla which has been not afforded the right to counsel until the case of Padilla v Rumsfeld. I mimic the ideas that the US Constitution and the Supreme Court View, where it is more a gravious error to hold a innocent person in jail than letting a guilty person free because the government did wrong.

Another anology we should apply is why the terrorist attacked us..... I hear and is mirrored across the nation, They are jealous at what we have and want to destroy it. Ok it makes a statement but it is void of most truths. The Islamic culture does not hate us, go to Quatar or Kuwait. They will proudly thank Americans from freeing them from Sadam. This is even mirrored in Saudi Arabia and U.A.E. to some degree, of late its going more anti American. But think of the Islamic culture as terms with Parents. As good parents you shield them from hatred, abuse, foul language, everything that is bad. The Islamic culture does not agree with the western culture and "their loose morals" which to be honest, some things I watch on TV even disgust me and I am a 21 year old that grew up with mTV...... And remember the only news you see is bad news. The stuff I commented that disgusted me was probably broadcasted on Islamic tv also...... Which will certainly disgust any parent (superbowl, janet jackson anyone?) Stop having blind hatered and question yourself why are these people soo mad at us?

I decided to goto a Palestinian Screening of the movie "Paradise Now." This is a movie based on the story and plot of a Palestinian Suicide Bomber. It was actually created not for the US audience but for other Palestinians. No, I know what many of you may think may be the case of the movie, promoting suicide bombing. That was not the case at all. Think of the movie as more of the reason to why he did it. Think more or less like the movie "A Time to Kill" When Samuel L Jackson was forced to kill the two men for raping his daughter. More or less the movie mirrors patriotic rhetoric that mirrors "Give me Liberty to Give Me Death!" Patrick Henry. I went to this screening due to my horribly one sided and one minded roommate who believes that all Palestinians should be wiped off the face of the world for blowing up buses in Jerusalem. But then again in "Paradise Now" there was a passage that I will never forget. It was one of the suicide bombers recounting why his father had a limp in his leg. During the occupation, the Israeli army went door to door making sure any able body palestinian would not be able to fight. Hence the son recants, "The Israeli soldier was nice enough to let him choose which leg he would like to keep." It is shameful acts of revenge or retaliation that surmounts to violence and terrorism.

There is an actual theory described for this sort of event. There is in nature a fight between two animals. The gardner snake and a frog or lizard, I forgot which that has the ability to produce poison. Well the Frog or lizard first produced the poison and many gardner snakes actually were repelled or died. But then the gardner snake gained an immunity and then the lizards were dying. But with nature the strong survive and some lizards just naturally produced more poison so they survived. I do not remember what the exact number was but the poison is now due to the constant fighting more then enough to kill 10000 rats per mL or so..... rivaling snake poison.

[Colin]

Well, we really cant discuss the origins of terrorism here. This thread is about a documentary, but suffice to say that unusual battle tactics, including breaking the rules of convention, abound not only in European history (read Napoleons battles) but also in the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Middle East (read Alexanders battles) and in Africa (read how they defeated the British).

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Unconventional tactics include attacking cities and civilians. This is not new. We bombed Dresdan and Japan remember. It is only when the military is entrenched and complacent, that they are shocked to find some new, smaller, more determined, force is using unconventional tactics.

"The term "terrorism" comes from the French word terrorisme, which is based on the Latin verb terrere (to frighten). It dates to 1795 when it was used to describe the actions of the Jacobin Club in their rule of post-Revolutionary France, the so-called "Reign of Terror". Jacobins are rumored to have coined the term "terrorists" to refer to themselves. Acts described as Jacobin Club "terrorism" were mostly cases of arrest or execution of opponents as a means of coercing compliance in the general public."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism