dkp Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 It's a shame that America basically invented terrorism and now we cannot contain it....... How did America invent terrorism? David the revolutionary war........ I know this will incite alot of fight but. The code of warfare was prevalent up to the Revolutionary War. Soldiers were not allowed to engage officers. Officers could only engage officers, that is why up to then the Generals and higher ranks did not park their butts 1 mile away from the battlefield. The rules of engagement changed. When they still had line formation, there was a certain ettique to warfare. Even in the Civil War, people actually in the first battle brought their children and had a picnic to watch the battle of Bull Run. In their horror and disbelief they actually thought it to more a play until it happened. This hurts me to say this too but the Surprise attack by George Washington crossing the Delware River on Chirstmas eve was a pretext to terrorism type idea. Remember terrorist theory goes to strike when you least suspect it. The British believed that no one would fight on Christmas day. But it happened. Yeah, that IS really close to attacking unarmed civilians who are in no way, shape or form connected with ANY sort of military engagement. Give me a break. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 David,you may as well give it up.Some will always think the people on the planes had it comin' cause of George Washington(if you can even understand that,cause I can't).I really thought this thread was about THE MOVIE,when it started.Sounds a like a movie I would semi reluctantly go see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 I reedited my post and again arrogance........ I did not say George Washington was the reason. I said it paralleled...... I did not say the people on the plane had it coming. DO NOT DARE SAY THAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Unconventional tactics include attacking cities and civilians. This is not new. We bombed Dresdan and Japan remember. It is only when the military is entrenched and complacent, that they are shocked to find some new, smaller, more determined, force is using unconventional tactics. When you up the conventional warfare, the unconventional is upped too The firebombing of Tokyo using a newly developed formula from DuPont called Napalm, happened to kill more Japanese in one night than both Hiroshima and Nagasaki nuclear weapons. In one night, when most Japanese were sleeping soundly in their beds, they deployed the napalm and "HIT" civilian sections not industrial or commercial. There was a wonderful documentary on PBS about that where they had the living pilots recant their stories. One pilot said, where is Tokyo? and another pilot said don't you see that 1 square mile of fire? and the pilot just cried. And then the American government had the japanese or to some percentage japanese blood in them relocate into not concentration camps but "internment camps" Yes I will restate that was not America's finest hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 put it this way: If I was a peasant living in afganistan trying just to survive and then the american government drops a 2000 lb precision guided bomb onto my house with my family and three children as I watch from my farm fields I attend to during the day, will that not upset me??? and then see George Bush not even apologies??? I would become a terrorist that second....... think of it that way. We do not kill terrorist we make them everyday...... all in the name of freedom and liberty. I wish politicians stopped using words like that for pretext to war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkp Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Jay-I'm sure that you meant to include the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in your posts about terrorism. Alas, I don't see it. You may recall that the Japanese attacked Pearl with no indication of any sort, other than the transmission just prior to the attack. Perhaps this, too, would fit your definition of terrorism, per the George Washington example, as our servicemen at Pearl were surely unsuspecting any attack. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 It's a shame that America basically invented terrorism and now we cannot contain it....... How did America invent terrorism? David the revolutionary war........ I know this will incite alot of fight but. The code of warfare was prevalent up to the Revolutionary War. Soldiers were not allowed to engage officers. Officers could only engage officers, that is why up to then the Generals and higher ranks did not park their butts 1 mile away from the battlefield. The rules of engagement changed. When they still had line formation, there was a certain ettique to warfare. Even in the Civil War, people actually in the first battle brought their children and had a picnic to watch the battle of Bull Run. In their horror and disbelief they actually thought it to more a play until it happened. This hurts me to say this too but the Surprise attack by George Washington crossing the Delware River on Chirstmas eve was a pretext to terrorism type idea. Remember terrorist theory goes to strike when you least suspect it. The British believed that no one would fight on Christmas day. But it happened. Also definted by www.m-w.com Terrorism - : the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion. The Boston Tea party comes to mind. And then the fact that John Hancock and the Founding Fathers signed a Declaration of Independence, Independence from the mother country. Actually an updated defintion used by law enforcement in this country defines terrorism and this comes straight out of my class called "Police" text book - " The unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a govern,ent, the civilian population, or a segment thereof, in the furtherance of political or social objective. Domestic Terrorism is defined as "groups or individuals who operate without foreign direction within the United States and targets elements of the U.S Governement or citizens. Do not get me wrong, I do not hate America or am anti patriotic. But our past is just like the saying "blood is blood," we had a history that people want to forget and other countries have history that everyone wants to forget. We as people of countries have governments that did not do what was "proper" and "necessary" always and sometimes our governments "looked the other way" But "we as Americans are beacon of light to the rest of the world" and should uphold our moral obligations too... Especially when we ignore certain "inalienable" rights afforded by United States Constitution to people like Padilla which has been not afforded the right to counsel until the case of Padilla v Rumsfeld. I mimic the ideas that the US Constitution and the Supreme Court View, where it is more a gravious error to hold a innocent person in jail than letting a guilty person free because the government did wrong. Another anology we should apply is why the terrorist attacked us..... I hear and is mirrored across the nation, They are jealous at what we have and want to destroy it. Ok it makes a statement but it is void of most truths. The Islamic culture does not hate us, go to Quatar or Kuwait. They will proudly thank Americans from freeing them from Sadam. This is even mirrored in Saudi Arabia and U.A.E. to some degree, of late its going more anti American. But think of the Islamic culture as terms with Parents. As good parents you shield them from hatred, abuse, foul language, everything that is bad. The Islamic culture does not agree with the western culture and "their loose morals" which to be honest, some things I watch on TV even disgust me and I am a 21 year old that grew up with mTV...... And remember the only news you see is bad news. The stuff I commented that disgusted me was probably broadcasted on Islamic tv also...... Which will certainly disgust any parent (superbowl, janet jackson anyone?) Stop having blind hatered and question yourself why are these people soo mad at us? I decided to goto a Palestinian Screening of the movie "Paradise Now." This is a movie based on the story and plot of a Palestinian Suicide Bomber. It was actually created not for the US audience but for other Palestinians. No, I know what many of you may think may be the case of the movie, promoting suicide bombing. That was not the case at all. Think of the movie as more of the reason to why he did it. Think more or less like the movie "A Time to Kill" When Samuel L Jackson was forced to kill the two men for raping his daughter. More or less the movie mirrors patriotic rhetoric that mirrors "Give me Liberty to Give Me Death!" Patrick Henry. I went to this screening due to my horribly one sided and one minded roommate who believes that all Palestinians should be wiped off the face of the world for blowing up buses in Jerusalem. But then again in "Paradise Now" there was a passage that I will never forget. It was one of the suicide bombers recounting why his father had a limp in his leg. During the occupation, the Israeli army went door to door making sure any able body palestinian would not be able to fight. Hence the son recants, "The Israeli soldier was nice enough to let him choose which leg he would like to keep." It is shameful acts of revenge or retaliation that surmounts to violence and terrorism. There is an actual theory described for this sort of event. There is in nature a fight between two animals. The gardner snake and a frog or lizard, I forgot which that has the ability to produce poison. Well the Frog or lizard first produced the poison and many gardner snakes actually were repelled or died. But then the gardner snake gained an immunity and then the lizards were dying. But with nature the strong survive and some lizards just naturally produced more poison so they survived. I do not remember what the exact number was but the poison is now due to the constant fighting more then enough to kill 10000 rats per mL or so..... rivaling snake poison. Ther you go Amy,if THAT ain't the BIGGEST pile of political BS I've read here in awhile I'll kiss a fat mans a$$. The Boston Tea Party,I thought I'd surely choke at the suggestion of comparison.Frogs and Lizzards,hmm..now I see why they wanted to kill those people on the plane and anyone else they could on the ground,WOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted April 30, 2006 Author Share Posted April 30, 2006 looks like the MOVIE is going to generate the same kind of buzz as Capote did with high theater returns: http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movies/04/30/boxoffice.ap/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Jay-I'm sure that you meant to include the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in your posts about terrorism. Alas, I don't see it. You may recall that the Japanese attacked Pearl with no indication of any sort, other than the transmission just prior to the attack. Perhaps this, too, would fit your definition of terrorism, per the George Washington example, as our servicemen at Pearl were surely unsuspecting any attack. David I thought that was a given. Since Roosevelt called it, "A day in infamy" Decemeber 7, 1941 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Ther you go Amy,if THAT ain't the BIGGEST pile of political BS I've read here in awhile I'll kiss a fat mans a$$. The Boston Tea Party,I thought I'd surely choke at the suggestion of comparison.Frogs and Lizzards,hmm..now I see why they wanted to kill those people on the plane and anyone else they could on the ground,WOW. If you are soo right quote me and educate me on what is wrong. I will gladly like to hear your side. I am openminded enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Amy Posted April 30, 2006 Moderators Share Posted April 30, 2006 Take the political education to the PRIVATE messages, please. This thread is about a movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Jay,I don't want to educate you or show you where you're wrong.You have the right to your opinion,but not here.Amy has asked now and in the past that political debate be curtailed,with good reason,we won't agree and it gets nasty,no one gains. I appreciate that you are open minded,just immagine your on a doomed plane,and your a nice person that would'nt hurt a fly.I doubt you would be concerned with the Tea Party. Have a good evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 I like top believe myself as a student of life. I wish to learn more. Hence I will be accepting on your views and what you believe is wrong with my views. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkp Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 That's a great attitude, Jay, and one of the reasons that this forum is so great. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 This movie will stir up alot of responses, some good, some bad, but bottom line here, How much did it cost to see Hollywood's version of one of the darkest days in American history? Discovery, and A&E, ran theirs for free(if you have cable)!!!! Funny it came out at a time when GW's ratings are so low, gas prices so high!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkp Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 This movie will stir up alot of responses, some good, some bad, but bottom line here, How much did it cost to see Hollywood's version of one of the darkest days in American history? Discovery, and A&E, ran theirs for free(if you have cable)!!!! Funny it came out at a time when GW's ratings are so low, gas prices so high!!! I'll bet Hollywood timed it to help ole GW out... David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theryugobuddy Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 Rush Limbaugh has had excerpts of his interviews with Mr. Greengrass, the director of this movie, on lately--and they are fascinating. A big point is how the terrorists were so normal and inconsequential before they did this hideous thing. Because of a twisted ideology from the other side of the world all these innocent people died. Rush is well, kind of conservative (tongue in cheek!) and the director claims to be a liberal minded gentleman-- a Brit. Both found alot of things to agree about through this movie--that we are all fighting an unconventional, detemined enemy. Hopefully this movie will remind all of us on either side of the political fence what pulled us together after 9/11, and not the political posturing that ensued before and after GWB's second election win where each of us has become the enemy, not the turbanhead with a killer bomb and a deathwish on the other side of the world. Can't wait to see it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theryugobuddy Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 And--my gosh -- America created terrorism? Your history teacher went off the deep end on that one-- we didn't create hijacking airplanes did we? Terrorism is perfomed by a weaker, much smaller enemy on an unsuspecting world power in a dramatic fashion for maximum impact and visibility by the rest of the world--like a hijacking. Or cutting a head off and showing it to the world via video on Al Jazeera. Washington crossing a river DURING A WAR to surprise an enemy is hardly terrorism. Maybe if he took a boat to England and bombed the king's family would it be considered terrorism. Shoot--the Romans put heads on sticks along the Appian Way for as far as a man could see-- a couple centuries ago. They inspired terror long before indians were killing buffalo here-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkp Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 And--my gosh -- America created terrorism? Your history teacher went off the deep end on that one-- we didn't create hijacking airplanes did we? Terrorism is perfomed by a weaker, much smaller enemy on an unsuspecting world power in a dramatic fashion for maximum impact and visibility by the rest of the world--like a hijacking. Or cutting a head off and showing it to the world via video on Al Jazeera. Washington crossing a river DURING A WAR to surprise an enemy is hardly terrorism. Maybe if he took a boat to England and bombed the king's family would it be considered terrorism. Shoot--the Romans put heads on sticks along the Appian Way for as far as a man could see-- a couple centuries ago. They inspired terror long before indians were killing buffalo here-- Very well said. I agree completely. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted May 1, 2006 Share Posted May 1, 2006 age of iron and the age of gunpowder are two different ideology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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