August Battle of the Amps Gathering in St. Louis

[colterphoto1]

"Patio tea party speakers - Altec VOTTs, Valencias with Carver Receiver"

Nice, kinda like my Double stack LSI's in the garage, but I like the 'tea party' bit- hell those VOTT's would blow the blue hair clean off your Aunties!

I almost spit my coffee out. almost.

Nice math Colin. Very impressive!

Michael

[CaptnBob]

7

pre-amplifiers

9

tube amplifiers

4

solid-state amplifiers

4

sources

9

spks

3

subs

3

pieces of music (Classical, jazz, rock)

81,648

possible tests

5

minutes each (including switching time)

408,240

total minutes

6,804

hours of listening

8

system set-ups (rooms)

35

days at each one!

And there's a problem with that?

OK, so maybe our reach will exceed our grasp. It should still be fun.

[cjgeraci]

I think the comments were made with tongues firmly planted in cheek.

After all, you can never have too many processor, amp, speaker or source options during a fun-filled horn weekend. [][]

Carl.

[Deang]

"...ALK jrs that we'll be swapping for the '63 1RB networks in the one set of KHorns."

Oh no you won't. Those networks have no low pass section. They were built to be used using the AK-3 woofer section located in the bass bin. I thought they were going in your late model Klipschorns. Also, your '63s probably have the 16 ohm tweeters. If you want those for your '63s, you need to send them to me so I can get them ready.

[sheltie dave]

Dean, I'll confirm the DCR readings for both sets of speakers and get the values and crossovers to ya for some loving ministrations. BTW, Carl's jaw is still on the floor over the job you did designing and building the custom crossovers for his Valencias.

You did an outstanding job, as usual! [H]

[Erik Mandaville]

I'd love to attend this as well as the gathering closer to home. Sounds like it will be fun.

Erik

[naimnut]

Greetings from a complete newcomer to this Forum, also from St. Louis.

I'm very curious to hear these combinations of tubes and horns. How might I obtain an invitation to attend this event in August?

Also, are there any hi-fi shops around which carry equipment like this? Since I've mainly been a Naim owner the only place I ever seem to get to is Music for Pleasure. Any recommendations about other shops I ought to try out?

Who carries Klipsch?

Thanks,

Markus

[sheltie dave]

Erik, as we get closer to August, let me know if your back will let you attend. We probably have an extra room for another attendee, although it will not be a firm bed. It would be great to have you here to answer some questions about the mods and decisions you went through building the Horii. The Holiday Inn at Butler Hill exit, five miles from our house, has beds in firm, extra firm, and plywood firm for questionable backs. [] We are hoping and praying everything goes well.

When Chris stoped by and briefly listened to the downstairs system, he was impressed with the soundstage, one of the best attributes the wiiiide seperation and tubes provide.

Naimnut, the major Klipsch store in town is the Sound Room, either in Chesterfied just south of the mall on Clarkson, or in Creve Coeur on Olive near Ballas Road. They stock and display a lot of the Reference line, none of the Heritage. Carl, Bob, Henry, Chris and I are the unofficial Heritage nuts, and we can demo the entire line for you. Just track this thread, and we will be sending the info to all who RSVP in the weeks preceding the gathering.

Alpha Audio is about 2 miles north of Music for Pleasure on Big Bend, three or so blocks south of Highway 40. They are the premier vintage, repair, and consignment audio place in the area, and have all kinds of speaks.

[Erik Mandaville]

Dave:

Thanks very much for responding here -- I really do appreciate it. If the timing were better, I would really enjoy sharing in all of this. I will look forward to reading about it.

Thanks once again for your invitation.

Erik

[cjgeraci]

Dean, I'll confirm the DCR readings for both sets of speakers and get the values and crossovers to ya for some loving ministrations. BTW, Carl's jaw is still on the floor over the job you did designing and building the custom crossovers for his Valencias.

You did an outstanding job, as usual!

Yes, you did Dean. Again, thanks for everything. I know the Altecs were a pain in the #$%^, but hey - what's another challenge. I counted it up the other night and between speakers I currently own and those I have traded, Dean has done a total of nine crossovers for me. Again, thanks from a loyal customer (and friend). <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

The Altecs sound terrific, and I knew converting them to 3-way speakers would take them to a whole different level. And you were right about the higher crossover point for the Beymas. The CP25s sound like different tweeters crossed over up higher, and I now know what you were talking about.

You know when I first picked up the Valencias, Duke said I ought to make them my mains instead of the Belles. Now with both the Belles and the Valencias modded out front and rear - its great. I can just swivel my rocking chair around - and run either the Belles or the Valencias as mains - with the other pair as surrounds. Either pair is up to the task. This is really fun, and those who are able to make it in August will hear what I'm hearing.

Carl.

[sheltie dave]

Dean, I tried to take readings, but the solder slag was most everywhere on the lug ears. Both sets of tweets are K77s, #s 2274 and 3358. The mids are both K55V drivers, #s 3315 and 4358. The woofs are both Jensen P15LLs. I think the one is actually a '65 as its serial is 2D225 rather than 2B.

Neither is a K5J, and I have always thought the entire run of K55 and K77 drivers were 8 ohm nominals, with the switch occuring in late 1962 and all old stock K5Js exhausted by NLT January of 1963, when my older Khorn was built.

The readings were volatile, ranging from 1.5 to 6.8 ohms at the dog ears area. Even with ape arms, it was hard to hit the right dog ear, hold it steady, shift to the left side and contact the left dog ear, and look at the fluke. The alligator clips I have are a couple inches too short to reach, in the go figure category.

Maybe Larry can chime in, but the woofer motarboard on the '65 is screwed to the small square motarboard, with top and bottom travel stay strips screwed in as a frame(flush with the woof motar), and then side compression wings over the woof motar, secured with carriage ? bolts extending through the front of the main motarboard, fastened with wingnuts on the woofer side.

[LarryC]

Yes, that vintage had a separate woofer board which slides in on those upper and lower horizontal rail/guides and held in place with the vertical rails (I don't know what else to call them) slid over the bolts and fastened with wingnuts. Klipsch staff said that all that stuff was done away with and the woofer mounted directly from 1971 on.

I don't know if you're considering dismounting the woofers from the board and fastening them directly to the main motorboard, but I don't see why you should since it was engineered the way you have them. Mine was a special situation where I'd done the AK-4 upgrade, and the extra thickness from the separate board messed with the frequency response built into the AK-4. My story is in a thread I posted back then (search under "Restoring").

Larry

[sheltie dave]

Thanks, Larry, that got me to your thread. I will be replicating your removal process, as I figure the woofer slot is the main retarding factor re generating the outstanding bass you now have.

As far as why the backside wedges were installed there, they appear to maintain the uniform 2:1 expansion ratio right from the first departure. I'm still debating over which Khorns the ALK jrs will go in, but the vintage wedges definitely need to come out, as they will limit bass with any crossover.

[sheltie dave]

Bumped to help, going to the Sound Room today about the new Reference TOTL speakers...

I talked with Dave, and he said it would be no problem. We can have a set of either RF-83 or -84s. He just needs to get them in stock.

[cjgeraci]

Shameless bump to remind everyone about the August gathering in St. Louis, August 4-6.

On an unrelated note, in a couple of weeks, Sheltie Dave and I will be providing the outdoor sound at a large class reunion for a local girls-only high school.

Other than the obvious comments [], the audio should be fun. We will be using Dave's pair of commercial VOTTs that we picked up recently - and it looks like they have JBL woofs and 311 horns up top. They are set up to run as 3-ways, and we will probably throw a pair of Dave's Eminence tweeters on top.

Ruff!!

Dave's wife, Colleen has already hinted to the nuns who run the school that VOTTs can create enough volume to disturb those in the nearby veterans' cemetery, etc.

Carl.

[sheltie dave]

We changed our plans slightly on the reunion, and did some work to get a set of Klipsch running well. The VOTTs have a set of JBL D140F woofers(bass guitar woofs) installed, and what Carl believes to be a pair of 511s for the horns. We were going to throw a set of Eminence tweets to cover the icing, but there is a set of generic xovers. With three sets of unknowns, and the only knowns being the add-on Eminence tweets( a mod,) we decided to run a set of vertical Cornwalls instead.

Only one problem - the blown K77 that I have not touched for over a year in the black decorator. One power drill, a few screwdrivers, no crimper, no wire stripper, no wire snips, no soldering iron, and no electrical tape later, the bad tweet was pulled and the good one thrown in, screwed in, and the enclosure was buttoned up again.

Carl brought his JM Peach and a gigawatt QSC PLX solid state amp over, so soon we were spinning CDs and watching our two sons blast Zurg with Buzz Lightyear's projectile mass accelerator. It was a very relaxing and pleasurable afternoon, as we threw some vintage 70s soul on to start the session. Soon we started turning the volume up as the interplanetary battle trespassed onto our feet. Pink Floyd could not drown out the battlecries of the avid three/our year olds, so we retired after a side of DSOTM.

We WILL have the VOTTs settled for the gathering, and maybe a few more additions..

[sheltie dave]

Broke out the JBL L100s today, and Liam helped me polish them up and take them out for a test listen. They are smoother than the Heresys, but the 8 dB difference in sensitivity makes it a little hard to compare in a short time.

We are getting systems lined up fer the shewr, as Ed Skelton would say. Let Carl or me know if you plan on coming, and we can help out with any info, maps, etc you may need. The extra beds are spoken for at my place at this time.

Amy, any chance to pin this?

[RAPTORMAN]

Are Canadians welcome?? If I can make it I would like to bring a couple of my best. I'll bring this--Yamamoto A-08S with the Cunningham 45s.

[RAPTORMAN]

And bring this as well--Emotive Sira preamp

[sheltie dave]

Come on down, Raptor. My wife would be estatic to have someone from Canada! Gotta love those Cunninghams, too[<)]