Bose Wave Cannon

[jt1stcav]

I see how it is now...as soon as Amy makes her appearance at the playground, all the children begin to play nicely...this is pathetic.

Is this the kind of mentality I should expect from this forum? I thought I was dealing with intellectuals who are free to express their opinions and are allowed to like or dislike anything they please as long as it doesn't resort to name calling and/or the senseless bashing of a product and its owners. But I see that I am very much wrong, that this display of childishness is not only the norm here, but totally acceptable as well. How sad!

Let's not have a lively discussion or debate on this subject, let's instead bash the product in general and everyone who uses them. Let's not look up the facts, but instead spew forth a bunch of rumors and non-truths (research actually does wonders for the mind).

For instance, a study conducted by the independent analyst group Forrester Research in March '06 found that Bose's brand name was more highly regarded by the US consumer than any other consumer electronics/computer brand name. Also, more US households (17.5 million by Forrester's estimate) aspire to own Bose products than the products of any other consumer electronics/computer manufacturer...Dell, Apple, Sony, Pioneer, TiVo, et al. The study also indicates the majority of US consumers feel confident with their Bose purchases because they believe the products are of decent quality. One only has to see the vast number of Bose factory outlet stores (over 150 as of this last count) scattered throughout the US and judge for themselves that consumer confidence is high and customer service is of the utmost importance. All manufacturers worldwide who want to remain in business strive for this kind of acceptance within the general buying public. Only a few ever achieve these standards; all the rest fall short of this and eventually cease to exist. With annual revenue averaging $1.70 billion and with 8000 employees scattered throughout their plants in MA, SC, two in Mexico, and one in Ireland, it seems Bose knows how to conduct its business, whether you believe in Forrester's research or not.

Go ahead, crack your immature jokes here...

And if anyone had bothered to look it up, you would have found the principal reason why Bose does not publish specs on their products:

"Dr. Bose believes that our imperfect knowledge of psychoacoustics limits our ability to adequately characterize quantitatively any two arbitrary sounds that are perceived differently, and to adequately characterize and quantify all aspects of perceived quality. He believes, for example, that distortion is much over-rated as a factor in perceived quality in the complex sounds that comprise music, noting, for example, that a square wave (a hugely distorted sine wave) and a sine wave are audibly indistinguishable above 7kHz. Similarly, he does not find measurable relevance to quality in other easily measured parameters of loudspeakers and electronics, and therefore does not publish those specifications for Bose products. The ultimate test, Bose insists, is your perception of audible quality and your preferences."*

In addition, the majority of the members on this thread and other so-called "audiophiles" bash Bose at every given opportunity, stateing its products are "lo-fi" or inferior to other loudspeakers in their price range, i.e., Bose is accused of using lower quality parts and materials than other loudspeaker manufacturers. Bose has always proclaimed to its critics that esoteric (read: expensive and overpriced) parts and materials are not needed for good sound, that proper R&D and subjective listening are the sole determining factors of good quality audio (in other words, your ears should be the final judge on sound quality for any piece of audio equipment, that you can't always determine good sound from specs and graphs that look "right" on paper). That is the real reason why Bose refuses to publish specs for its products (contrary to industry practice), and the real reason why all audio magazines don't publish reviews of Bose products since they all rely of specs and graphs to prove a loudspeaker's worthiness. Do you make your purchasing decisions on a review written in an audio journal with all its charts and graphs that say it's supposed to be good, or do you go and audition the item first and critically listen to it and determine for yourself whether it sounds good or bad to your ears, despite what its specs say?

IMO from what I've found there is no deep, dark secret or marketing hype Bose is keeping from the rest of the buying public...it's all there in black and white for everyone to read if only you'd take the time to look it up. I did not find any info pertaining to patent lawsuits, so I can't comment or speculate on that subject (no company's perfect anymore these days).

As for my credibility being tarnished on this forum for not following in everyone else's footsteps and "Blose"-bashing a company, its products, and its customers just to fit in with the in-crowd, than I'm glad to have lost all credibility in your book! Why should I stoop down to such a low level of ignorance? I too, have extensive experience with the 901s, 301s, and the 201s over the course of 26+ years, and even though Bose loudspeakers may not be my cup of tea soundwise, I will not lower myself to such low standards and make fun of the company, its products, and its owners, even if I'm not overly excited about their products (I can either take 'em or leave 'em...personally I prefer Klipsch and Triangle instead). And common sense dictates that one would not be an engineer for a company one dislikes with a passion simply because one finds its research in psychoacoustics a most fascinating subject!

BTW...Mr. FastFingers can indeed shred on sticks and modules, as I have heard countless times at the store I work at, and at Guitar Center-hosted Guitarmageddon events! Master Mind? Florida official indeed...man, I guess I couldn't expect anything even remotely intelligent from this crowd! It's either "my way or the highway" from the posters on this thread.

You can now commence with your bashing...it's what you all do best.

*Quote from Wikipedia.

[Bill Cain]

You can now commence with your bashing...it's what you all do best.

*Quote from Wikipedia.

Anyone who puts faith in Wilkipedia might as well quote The DaVinci Code. No need to bash that without foundation. I admire your passion, but, quite frankly, who cares?

You've not addressed any statements made by anybody. Rather, you have assumed the role of Martyr Supreme. Congratulations. Someone tell Chucky Tidwell to move over..... His brother is here to replace him as Clown Prince. Daddy must be proud.

Now go fall on your sword. [Y]

[Bill Cain]

I have heard countless times at the store I work at, and at Guitar Center-hosted Guitarmageddon events!

Before he falls on his sword, I thought I should mention......

While living in New York, I had been spoiled by Sam Ash for the past couple of decades. When last visiting the old home town of Pittsburgh, I stopped in at a Guitar Center. First Class operation, on all fronts. I was surprised at how comprehensive their product line seemed to be and the great prices.

If they have the financial backers, they may take over the world... I am not kidding.

[jt1stcav]

The almighty Bill Cain has spoken.

All hail Bill Cain, he who can speak no wrong!

God save Bill Cain.

[efzauner]

All that you state is quite true. But there are many flaws to the argument:

1: Market awareness does note equal quality product. GM and Chrysler have huge market share in the US, yet Honda and Toyota beat them in quality.

2: Customer satisfaction may not be a judge of quality if the customer has not experienced anything better. My dad thought that Ford was the best until my brother in law got a Honda and showed him how much longer it lasted and how much less maintenance and repair it required. Then my dad purchased a Honda and has owned nothing but since.

3: Listening tests alone may be a good judge of quality sound only if the listener is trained on what to look for. My parents still think that the $100 stereo they got in the 70's sounds great. They have never listened to anything better.

4: One of the last magazine to write a fair review and test of a Bose product was ConsumerReports. And Bose sued them. That is why magazines no longer do reviews, not because Bose does not publish specs. Magazines can do their own tests.

5: If Bose really things that so called esoteric material is not needed and too expensive, why are their paper speakers still more expensive than others that are made with esoteric stuff, like silk dome tweeters and poly woofers?

6: The only reason companies open up their own retail stores is because they have not got good business results thru regular distribution and retail outlets. A Bose only store allows them to completely controll the entire buying process and allows for no comparison to other products. I have owned a retail store and I know what the wrath of Bose is. When a customer came in and wanted to buy a Bose system, my sales rep made the mistake of doing his job by asking what the customer was interested in, and showed him the Bose system and other other quality alternatives. When the Bose sales manager got wind of that, he threatened to cancel my contract. That is the action of a company wanting to control product image and fearing comparisons.

And last but not least, if Bose believes so much in their phsycoacoustic research then why do they not publish them in peer review journals? I would like to see a listening test from Bose that shows that an Acoustimass system that tests out to about 45 to 13.3 KHz +/- 10 dB sounds better than other speakers that test out flatter and with lower distortion.

[johnyholiday]

Bose sells but who's buying,Bose sells but who's buying,if it works

i'll be the first in line ,but it better work this time...............i

eagarly await my complamentry Bosestick&moduals{snakeskin tolex}

via GC an your

department as i would like to replace my 5 watt battery operated

Roland Cube , will one Bosestick be enuff, as the Roland Cube

seems to be a monster in comparison, with six DSP effects, COSM® Amp

Modeling and a new Digital Tuning Fork, put's the shred on the cake,are

the Bosesticks in the same

$139 dollar price range,if they are in the Marshall 50/50 {could

replace 6 , 50/50's with ?# Bosesticks}stereo mono block ,price

range, will the Bosestick, run like a stripped ace ape ,an tear the

paint off the walls, Bosestick whiplash, act like a maniac

[efzauner]

Oh, and one more thing: Bose is a privately held company. There is no way to verify the $1.7B revenues that you claim.

Also, I would love to see that Forrester Research study. You can see a brief summary of it at

www.forrester.com, but you have to pay $775 to get it. So I have no way of verifying how the research was done to really evaluate what it means. I would also have to compare it to past studies to see if Bose is improving or declining.

So what does it mean? Maybe that Bose does so much advertising that so many people believe the ads. A Bose sales man once told me that Bose does more research into acoustics than any other company in the world. That may be true, but again, they can say what they want and no one can refute the claim because Bose is private and does not publish how much it spends on product, R&D, Marketing etc.

[Amy]

I see how it is now...as soon as Amy makes her appearance at the playground, all the children begin to play nicely...this is pathetic.

Is this the kind of mentality I should expect from this forum? I thought I was dealing with intellectuals who are free to express their opinions and are allowed to like or dislike anything they please as long as it doesn't resort to name calling and/or the senseless bashing of a product and its owners. But I see that I am very much wrong, that this display of childishness is not only the norm here, but totally acceptable as well. How sad!

I just jumped in here to lighten up the mood a little bit. I didn't see anything childish or pathetic in anyone's responses. I do not interfere with anyone wanting to bash or gush over products, including our own. We're all entitled to an opinion. After moderating this forum for almost 6 years, I can typically tell when things are going to take a turn for the worse and become personal.

Asking people about their weekend, I think, helps remind everyone getting sucked into an argument about who's opinion is better, which has no answer, that we are all just people and have things in common...such as a weekend.

I apologize that you took it so negatively. Carry on.

[chops]

Someone tell Chucky Tidwell to move over..... His brother is here to replace him as Clown Prince. Daddy must be proud.

Look, I don't know or care who you are. For one thing, you are some jack@$$ that has just started on this forum, and I WILL NOT put up with your crap, especially when it comes to using MY FULL NAME on the forum all the time, and making fun of or making nicknames of MY NAME!

I don't let my family or friends call me nicknames, and I'm sure as heck not going to let you do it! So cut the crap now before I take it up with the moderators!

[Puz]

Oh, o.k. Let's sit here and completely examine and scrutinize every little fact about a company and their practices. You people seriously need to get a life... Gee, and I wonder how many f%$@ups the almighty Klipsch corp. has made throughout the years. Considering that the only product of Klipsch that's lasted through the years is the Heritage line. All of the other models only last but a few years. If they need to change models so frequently, maybe you should be questioning Klipsch and there so-called research. What, they can't get a stinkin box with a SIMPLE P.A. horn and plastic woofer right? But I thought they new everything.... Oh no, that's just the forum members that do. Pure genious', each and every one of them.. Plleeaasse. After my little chuckle, I just have to say, sorry to be the one to tell you boys but guess what? Klipsch ain't all that! []

[Clarence]

Oh, o.k. Let's sit here and completely examine and scrutinize every little fact about a company and their practices. You people seriously need to get a life... Gee, and I wonder how many f%$@ups the almighty Klipsch corp. has made throughout the years. Considering that the only product of Klipsch that's lasted through the years is the Heritage line. All of the other models only last but a few years. If they need to change models so frequently, maybe you should be questioning Klipsch and there so-called research. What, they can't get a stinkin box with a SIMPLE P.A. horn and plastic woofer right? But I thought they new everything.... Oh no, that's just the forum members that do. Pure genious', each and every one of them.. Plleeaasse. After my little chuckle, I just have to say, sorry to be the one to tell you boys but guess what? Klipsch ain't all that! []

Quickly becoming my favorite new poster......[:|]

[colterphoto1]

4 for 4 in flaming posts. That's a record for a new member I believe.

Back to your regularly scheduled thread.....

[Jay481985]

meh a change of venue is at hand my fellow klipsch forum members

[kenratboy]

Wow, what a bunch of children you all are! []

[Puz]

4 for 4 in flaming posts. That's a record for a new member I believe. Back to your regularly scheduled thread.....

Oh, it looks like the circus train just pulled into town. I can see the clowns are all here. I think they'll be performing under the Klipsch big top with Tweedledumb and and his sidekick Tweedledumber. The absolute stupidity of people in these forums just amaze me. I think you idiots got picked on in Jr. high too much and now have this pent up anger you need to release. There are abuse hotlines you can use. I don't think audio forums was on that list though... Unbelievable... And you call yourselves grown adults.. I can't stop laughing!

[jt1stcav]

Amy, I have never questioned your authority as you well know, but I don't think you're fully aware of what's going on with this thread. Have you read it in its entirety?

You didn't see anything childish in anyone's responses? Shooting mellons out of the Bose Cannon! Holiday and his gibberish! New member Puz being called Putz and Pud for voicing his opinion that didn't mesh with every other "basher" here, just because he favors his Bose loudspeakers over the Klipsch models he previously owned. What if everyone here started gay-bashing? Would that also be acceptable behavior that you wouldn't interfere with?

Honestly, I couldn't give a rat's a$$ what Bose does...I really don't care how they go about their research, how they supposingly monopolize the industry, or conduct their business with its retailers. I don't even own any Bose products, nor do I have plans to (as I've stated in my posts)! My beef is the constant barage of Bose-bashing that seems to be the acceptable practice on this thread, and to belittle the Bose owner (aka: all the deaf people) with their choice to own their "lo-fi" loudspeakers! That's fine if you hate Bose...don't buy 'em, or poke fun at the people who do. I don't see any typical Bose owners bashing others for choosing Klipsch, or any other brand for that matter.

Whatever...if grown men want to act like idiots, knock yourselves out.

[Jay481985]

Gee, and I wonder how many f%$@ups the almighty Klipsch corp. has made throughout the years. Considering that the only product of Klipsch that's lasted through the years is the Heritage line. All of the other models only last but a few years. If they need to change models so frequently, maybe you should be questioning Klipsch and there so-called research. What, they can't get a stinkin box with a SIMPLE P.A. horn and plastic woofer right? But I thought they new everything.... Oh no, that's just the forum members that do. Pure genious', each and every one of them.. Plleeaasse. After my little chuckle, I just have to say, sorry to be the one to tell you boys but guess what? Klipsch ain't all that! []

I thought about this for a bit longer than most thoughts in my head. There are a few reasons why Klispch and other companies do this.

A. They can be like microsoft and screw you to getting a new update that is barely better

B. They can be like care companies that improve upon their models by looking at the competition and says what can be improved.

C. Materials, things like on the B&W 800 D line with the diamond tweeter cone could not be feasibly made 10 yeas ago. By feasibly I mean cost effective, ummm actually someone who did their homework etc etc. This can be compared to carbon fiber of recent, before a material of great strenghts and used basically for space and aeronautical, at around 1000 per square foot only few companies could implement them, now it is around 13 dollars a square foot so gold clubs, tennis rackets, ummm car bodies etc are using it.

D. Like what most companies should be doing is the continual research of the never ending goal of learning. When a company goes, "good enough" is the day they will be beat by the competition. remember those lines that your highschool sports coach used to say, "second best is first place loser" and stuff like that

E. Cost of Materials

F. Change in Economy

G. Other aspects that effect speakers like new amplifier technology, new media (dvd) etc,

H. Newer ideas

I. etc

[Puz]

I thought about this for a bit longer than most thoughts in my head. There are a few reasons why Klispch and other companies do this.

A. They can be like microsoft and screw you to getting a new update that is barely better

B. They can be like care companies that improve upon their models by looking at the competition and says what can be improved.

C. Materials, things like on the B&W 800 D line with the diamond tweeter cone could not be feasibly made 10 yeas ago. By feasibly I mean cost effective, ummm actually someone who did their homework etc etc. This can be compared to carbon fiber of recent, before a material of great strenghts and used basically for space and aeronautical, at around 1000 per square foot only few companies could implement them, now it is around 13 dollars a square foot so gold clubs, tennis rackets, ummm car bodies etc are using it.

D. Like what most companies should be doing is the continual research of the never ending goal of learning. When a company goes, "good enough" is the day they will be beat by the competition. remember those lines that your highschool sports coach used to say, "second best is first place loser" and stuff like that

E. Cost of Materials

F. Change in Economy

G. Other aspects that effect speakers like new amplifier technology, new media (dvd) etc,

H. Newer ideas

I. etc

Wow, you're cool. I want to be like you someday... Anyway...

[Jay481985]

Did I flame you or make fun of you. I just gave you the facts. Anyways I hope you get hit by a truck one day. Thanks

[Bill Cain]

Someone tell Chucky Tidwell to move over..... His brother is here to replace him as Clown Prince. Daddy must be proud.

Look, I don't know or care who you are. For one thing, you are some jack@$$ that has just started on this forum, and I WILL NOT put up with your crap, especially when it comes to using MY FULL NAME on the forum all the time, and making fun of or making nicknames of MY NAME!

I don't let my family or friends call me nicknames, and I'm sure as heck not going to let you do it! So cut the crap now before I take it up with the moderators!

I didn't realize there were actually two "Tidwell's" who regularly made fools of themselves on this forum. Imagine the odds..... Or is it merely inbreeding?

http://forums.klipsch.com/members/jt1stcav.aspx < James Tidwell aka "jt1stcav"

http://forums.klipsch.com/members/chops.aspx < Charles Tidwell aka "chops"

Do whatever you wish, "Charles." Keep posting under multiple names. Putz, Pud, Puz, whatever. While others actually try to answer questions and learn from others, you can puff out you chest and make noise.

I was worried that you might not continue to make a fool of yourself, once your little bro started ranting. But you both have proven you're up to providing comic relief.

Keep up the good work.