Bill Cain Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 ... I have 95% of the sound for 10% of the money. For me this is enough to stop the quest for more sound. Great quote. I expect someone will start using a variation as a signature. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfsBane Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 I have no loudness control on my system, so that is a non factor. I use tone controls ever so slightly on my system. But my experience has always been that if you have a good system, the less... the better. Of course, if you have a subwoofer, your bass level is actually going to be regulated with the sub volume control, so your bass tone control is going to be set at the neutral position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SET12 Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Set12 Many of my comments were Tung in cheek. I have what I feel is a very good 2 ch rig for the money I spent. I know there is better equipment out there but at what price? <?xml:namespace prefix = o /> I have a VTL Ultimate pre-amp feeding a Sonic Frontiers power 1 amp. The pre-amp is basically two mono pre-amps that only share one volume knob and the case, even the power cords are separate. The amp is a stereo 6550 push pull rated at 25 watts and it feeds a pair of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 />Cornwall 2s through 10 gauge copper wire. My source is again, not the top of the line but good enough and it is a Regga planar 3 with a Grace 747 arm and a Grace F-9e cart. Yes more money can be spent here also but I have 95% of the sound for 10% of the money. For me this is enough to stop the quest for more sound. The reaction I get from anyone who hears my system for the first time is starting to wear a hole in the carpet from where their jaws hit the ground. Yes I have a very wide and deep sound stage but the point I was making is that it is all a figment of our imagination. We can pinpoint instruments that were never where we hear them. We have the illusion of width and depth but it never was there to start with. I keep my 2 ch rig in a different room than my HT and the two never mix. If I want music, it is tube 2 ch. If I want movies, it is with the SS HT system. Both have their good points and bad points. I dont think we met properly, Welcome to the forum and I hope you enjoy us here! Cal, Thank you for the welcome, I can take what I dish out tung in cheek also, We all have our philosophical feelings as to what audio is to us and its meaning whether it is real or not real, or just a created illussion. Some treat the listening experiance like listening to elavator music yet others get very envoled in the illussion by adding room treatments and various tweaks and those who enjoy a DIY designing as I do. I and many others of my local audio club enjoy large sound stages with as much space as we can get along with many other qualities that a High-End sound system can give although for some this is a lower priority certainly. Takeing one piece of gear and substituteing another on my system can reveal the differance in the apparent width and depth as well as the verticle height of the recording as revealed by what I refer to as room ambient cues whether it is real or created makes no differance to me I just enjoy what I'm hearing and I love the sense of space. In a listening session with a Jollita 100 watt hybrid that a friend of mine bought it could only reproduce a sound stage between the loudspeakers and very rarely much laterally its ambient imformation was rather low although the amp was very musical it just didn't produce enough imformation, I find this rather common with mid fi componets, The Jollita is well made the surprizeing thing about it was their was poor extension at the frequency extreams as well my buddy can't seem to even listen to it he tells me it just isn't the performer that my SET is at 10 watts. What he discovered is that power has nothing to do with dynamics, space, harmonic imformation and overall envolement other than loudness. Ten years ago I certainly couldn't even fathom myself ever owning a pair of Klipschs it wasn't untill I built these SET amps that I needed something efficent and discovered the capabilities of these Forte's with tube gear and then hearing a friends self built ALK crossover version transform a poor sounding LaScala into some real magic that made me mod my Forte's in extream and I might add it was worth every penny of the 800$ I spent. I think that almost all the Klipsch networks could benefit from improved parts, I think even the Deans crossovers are likely to be a substanial improvement. We have something in common in that we both own Grace tone arms I have a Grace 714 unipivot made of Teak wood mounted to a Sonagraph turntable with a Benz Micro MO .9 mv moving coil cartridge I use this with my 50lb two box DIY designed phono stage you have likely seen. I am certainly not done with the amplifiers as their is still more to be gotten from them the nice thing is it doesn't cost you much DIYing things and it is a heck of alot of fun. SET12 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 Set12, as I read your post I gather you think standard LaScala's are poor sounding speakers... correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Cain Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Set12, as I read your post I gather you think standard LaScala's are poor sounding speakers... correct? General Quarters, General Quarters.... All hands man your battle stations..... Set Condition Zebra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Set12, as I read your post I gather you think standard LaScala's are poor sounding speakers... correct? uh-oh .......[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBILL Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I have been building so called "passive pre-amplifiers" for a while, trying to find something that suited me and was easy to use. My latest opus has seven inputs controlled by a gang switch. There is a volume control (linear) and a trimmer pot on one channel for balance. I have never once regretted putting my three preamplifiers on the shelf. It is all Bob Crites' fault! New crossovers and tweets revealed the inadequacies of my pre's. Getting rid of them was like cleaning a dirty window. The only concession was the magnetic phono. I mounted a small line amp in the base where the wires emerge from the arm. This provided an immense improvement in eleminating hum and providing clarity. It would take an almost miraculous preamplifier to cause me to go back. Somebody think of a truthful name for "passive pre-amplifier." "Signal Processor?" What? DRBILL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I have changed my mind based on this thread. Good stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SET12 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 DRBILL, Thank you!!! for your post on this topic! Yes their are some truly great preamps out their but the ones of most interest are usually very costly! I to have had no regretts putting my line stage on the shelf and have had no inclination at all to put it back for the last five years I believe one can easyly do with out and gain that much more but of course that can be system dependent. I have found that not all circumstances allow great performance with out a line stage. You need and amp with a lot of gain to use typical CD players direct or a CD player that can deliever greater output voltages than 2 volts, high sensitivity loudspeakers such as Klipsch designs help out alot the advantage of this is that you can afford to put more funds into your front end CD player or any other source componet taking your sytem to much greater heights. As far as the stock LaScalas I stand firm on my opinion and if it weren't for ALK's work I would not likely be on the Klipsch forum and I might add ALK's work did truly transform the LaScala into a fierce performer one that finally yielded some very nice bass performance as well with doing great justice with the mid-range and top end and if you haven't heard it and heard it set up correctly you are really missing a real outstanding performance of what the LaScala is capable of! There just isn't any comparison and I for one would never own them in the stock form. I could live with the stock Forte's though my Modified ones are in a differant league. SET12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Cain Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Somebody think of a truthful name for "passive pre-amplifier." Straight Wire with No Gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRBILL Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 "Straight Wire with No Gain." (From Raising Cain) No. No poetry or imagination. It doesn't roll off the tongue. You had better see me after class.[] DRBILL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Cain Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 "Straight Wire with No Gain." (From Raising Cain) No. No poetry or imagination. It doesn't roll off the tongue. You had better see me after class.[] DRBILL Made sense to me...... Maybe you could start a focus group? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbsl Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 SET12 said: "As far as the stock LaScalas I stand firm on my opinion and if it weren't for ALK's work I would not likely be on the Klipsch forum and I might add ALK's work did truly transform the LaScala into a fierce performer one that finally yielded some very nice bass performance as well with doing great justice with the mid-range and top end and if you haven't heard it and heard it set up correctly you are really missing a real outstanding performance of what the LaScala is capable of! There just isn't any comparison and I for one would never own them in the stock form. I could live with the stock Forte's though my Modified ones are in a differant league." SET12 Have you been able to compare the ALK crossovers to the new crossovers Klipsch is using? I have a pair of 2004 La Scalas and have not been able to compare them to the older models. I love the way mine sound and would love to find someone in the Austin area ALK's and bring em over and do a comparision with the new Klipsch crossovers. I know Deans KHorns were had the new crossovers so if he is reading this post maybe he can give us his opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SET12 Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 jbsl, I have no experiance with any recent models. If the crossovers are made anything like the past, like electrolytics, just film caps and no film and foil that can carry higher currents, no litz air core inductors or low frequency Iron core inductors instead of air core low frequency inductors. If this is the case the stock units would be gone in a heart beat if I owned them. Especially if I saw an L-Pad in place of the Auto-Former also I would do an outboard version as a replacement a friend of mine did a copy of ALK's on plexiglass it looks really Retro Cool. The real problem in the older LaScala's as ALK pointed out among other things is the mid-range is to high in its spl level ALK allows the user to dial it in you can't simply change the tap on the autoformer because you'll change the turnover point. This is a very nice feature that works like a charm on the ALK's not to mention his very high quality parts though I am learie of the Hovaland caps that take so long to break in I have read on the madisound forum people not likeing them much you maybe looking at a couple-hundred hours to break in and bloom and get sweet they will in time but I wouldn't recommend them, this is my experiance with the Hovlands they are well made though with my own out board crossovers I intend to try few other brands SET12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbsl Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 How much are ALK crossovers? NOt that I have the money just curious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 If you have the means, there is no excuse for poor system matching. Relying on loudness and tone controls and the various DSP's to compensate for system anomalies is an unsatisfactory solution. And why would you want to use tone controls to make so-called poorly recorded or bad music sound better? If that's how the music was recorded, that's how you should listen to it. Except maybe, for someone like Diana Krall, or maybe that Miles Davis. But then I don't think any amount of DSP is going to help them. Now where's that eject button? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 PPP!!!! (pure purist pomposity) Save us from the purists! Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 "is the mid-range is to high in its spl level ALK allows the user to dial it in" Just like a mid-range tone control....... Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbsl Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 What ever edwinr's opinion it is correct for him cause it is his opinion. My opinion disagrees with most everything he said. I like and will continue to use tone controls including loudness button because my opinion is I use "loudness and tone controls " NOT "to compensate for system anomalies" but to compensate for album recording anomalies. "so-called poorly recorded or bad music" So if the problem is my equipment then every cd I play should sound bad. But I have many cds that sound fantastic. I totaly disagree with him on the point of "that's how the music was recorded, that's how you should listen to it." I don't really care what was intended by the artist when they make a album. The only reason I listen is to enjoy myself! If that means adjusting tone controls then I will. Albums are soo tweaked by the record company, sound eng, and producer the end result is hardly a true expression by the artist. Again I respect his opinion just do not agree with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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