New RW subs

[DrWho]

its much more complex then lets just go and feed the world

Nowhere did I say that America should feed the world and I would be very much against such a proposition - I was just commenting how wasteful we are - what is it, 10% of the population using 90% of the resources? I forget the numbers...I just remember it paralleled the stats on how people tithe in most churches...

[Jay481985]

1% of America controls 90% of most businesses in America. But under the line of being wasteful, I thought well what is the opposite of being wasteful? I thought well might as well feed then?

The 10% of the population (Mostly westen countries) do use 90% of the resources. But the fact is as societies advance, we need or cosume more resources than societies that have not even industrialized.

[steamer]

Most economic figures show the US Economy to be strong. Remember manufacturing employment only accounts for about 14% of our total workforce. So the Made in the USA ranting doesn't make a lot of difference to the other 86% of the popluation if it means they're DVD players are going to cost more. If you work in a manufacturing plant, you might feel like the US Economy is sinking, but it is actually very strong on the whole.

Japan? Good lord they practically live in China. They make everything they can in China. Germany? Ok, if you're happy with double digit unemployment for the last 5 years, then Germany is a great place to be.

Japan makes everything in China or Thailand for the fact that just like America, the labor has become to expensive to make products their to meet their stockholders. Remember after WWII Japan was where cheap labor was, then it moved to Korea, then and now China, as each nation prospered it to became to expensive. The problem is when does it stop? When there are no more realiable sources of cheap labor, then what do you do? Goto war.

And to DrWho's comment, " For anyone against sending jobs overseas I would highly recommend actually giving some of these countries a visit - and not spending the night in a hotel, but in the homes of the people living there. I've not been to China, but I've been to Romania many times - think of the thousands of people that would starve to death had there not been jobs from the west moving in...we don't have starvation problems here in america - nope, we've got obesity like no other and are constantly throwing food away. We're definetly helping out all of mankind..."

America if we wanted to could feed the world over and have no child ever left hungry at night. But there are major problems. One problems is the fact that if we were to feed the world over 90% of America would have to be farmland or farm based. Two then food would cost nothing which even though sounds good, means that you can get probably 50 pounds of meat at a penny, that means the farmer would have very little profit meaning very little incentive to work (wholy capitalistic ideal). Because in capitalism we strive to maximize our profits by cheapening our products. If the competition sells it cheaper we will underscore them. This will make a bidding war and reduce prices even further as the American people are now taught from childhood to know when something is cheaper and the same quality it is a "value" hence all the warehouse prices and so if you buy 50lb of it. That is why our government gives subsidies to farmers to not grow to their potential and actually tells them to plant nothing this year, to stabilize the food markets. It sounds more like a communistic idea but if evey farmer grew to their potential the spoils would be too much. Then we go into the idea of "great we have all this food to feed the world" but how do we get it to the people. Unfortunately most of the food that we send out would have spoiled by the time it arrives. There are more complications but there are many reasons why america cannot feed every child. I do understand your point DrWho that we throw away too much food at around 11-15% of all the food brought in America, enough to feed Canada, but its much more complex then lets just go and feed the world. I have not even touched on the politics yet...

Have you ever heard of soil consevation?

http://inside.bard.edu/politicalstudies/student/PS260Spring03/soil.htm

Greg

[Jay481985]

If you put Ammonium Nitrate and other additives back into the soil it will be replenished. Yes ammonium nitrate the same stuff the oklahomo bomb was made of. That was in the 1930's pre synthetic chemical age. All the nitrates that are normally lost in the soil can be added again using synthetic chemicals. Though it is cheaper to let the soil renitrate if you have the room to leave the land barren for a year, hence crop rotation.

[jacksonbart]

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[oldbuckster]

Feed the World......People in this country go to bed at night Hungry.....Hungry, homeless people in America, can you imagine??? All this over a sub woofer...........What's this world coming too????? Put on some Music and calm down.....

[oldenough]

Mr Ear, While i respect your knowledge of everything below 50Hz, i don't think that you are in a position to judge my maturity or lack of it. You on the other hand have posted enough that a consensus could possibly be drawn. My comment was light hearted and possibly valid. I sincerely hope i have written this in a concise enough manner for you to understand. John.

Ps. I'm still confused as to whether you and Woofer are one and the same. Simply curious.

[Fish]

In closing I will tell you this,I will NEVER pay for a product made in a country where cheap slave like labour is used and pay close to the prices asked for a similar products manufactured here(US,Canada).NEVER

I am very much against Nationalism and all for a global society. Who cares if America falls - the world will probably become a better place.

WOW,I thought DR Who was an alright guy.Who cares if America falls? I Do,my family has shed a-lot of blood for this country and YOUR right to b!tch about it.Funny how a subwoofer discussion can bring out the radical thoughts of some people.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the revolutionary war the last time America was directly fighting for it's independance? Sure, there were other wars we got involved in, but none of which were our basic human rights directly being endangered. I too have lost a lot of friends and relatives to war so don't give me that line.

My comment, in context, is merely one of "get rid of this stupid prideful nationalist ideology" - and I would prefer nobody put words in my mouth along the lines of giving america away to other countries. We are all humans and there is nothing about America or the people living here that make us better or worse than anyone else in the world (same can be said for any country). Everyone is so concerned about crapping on the little guy in America, but don't give a crap about all the other 'little guys' in the world.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but the value of a product should be based on performance and quality - not how much it cost the manufacturer to build it. If the manufacturer can make more money, then great. That means more money for better products in the future.

For anyone against sending jobs overseas I would highly recommend actually giving some of these countries a visit - and not spending the night in a hotel, but in the homes of the people living there. I've not been to China, but I've been to Romania many times - think of the thousands of people that would starve to death had there not been jobs from the west moving in...we don't have starvation problems here in america - nope, we've got obesity like no other and are constantly throwing food away. We're definetly helping out all of mankind...

You ask to be corrected if you're wrong,WELL,YOUR statement was"WHO CARES IF AMERICA FALLS-THE WORLD WOULD PROBABLY BE A BETTER PLACE"that's the exact quote,I wouldn't get close enough to your mouth to put words in it,besides your foots already in there.I could give a crap less about your goepolitico BS or who makes speakers where.It is very insulting to have some @%*&%$#@$$ tell me my country should fall after this country has saved the world from itself more than once.You should just stick to audio and leave your total BS opinion of THIS country in your very small head.

[steamer]

If you put Ammonium Nitrate and other additives back into the soil it will be replenished. Yes ammonium nitrate the same stuff the oklahomo bomb was made of. That was in the 1930's pre synthetic chemical age. All the nitrates that are normally lost in the soil can be added again using synthetic chemicals. Though it is cheaper to let the soil renitrate if you have the room to leave the land barren for a year, hence crop rotation.

Did they teach you about soil conservation in economics class along with the part about stabilizing food markets?I believe you said:

"America if we wanted to could feed the world over and have no child ever left hungry at night. But there are major problems. One problems is the fact that if we were to feed the world over 90% of America would have to be farmland or farm based. Two then food would cost nothing which even though sounds good, means that you can get probably 50 pounds of meat at a penny, that means the farmer would have very little profit meaning very little incentive to work (wholy capitalistic ideal). Because in capitalism we strive to maximize our profits by cheapening our products. If the competition sells it cheaper we will underscore them. This will make a bidding war and reduce prices even further as the American people are now taught from childhood to know when something is cheaper and the same quality it is a "value" hence all the warehouse prices and so if you buy 50lb of it. That is why our government gives subsidies to farmers to not grow to their potential and actually tells them to plant nothing this year, to stabilize the food markets".

My response and link was posted to show there are other reasons for soil conservation like preserving the quality of it for longterm production of crops vs. simply stabilizing food markets.

Greg

[Jay481985]

so Fish, how do you like your rf-83?

[steamer]

Mike you said:

"I am very much against Nationalism and all for a global society. Who cares if America falls - the world will probably become a better place".

Well I very much care if America falls!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't believe you said that,think about that statement.

Greg

[Fish]

so Fish, how do you like your rf-83?

Hey Jay,I have to say after listening quite a bit the 83's are kinda growing on me.I really like the mid bass punch,its an improvement over the 7's,imo.I'm still partial to the 7's horn even though some think it a tad harsh.When I really want to rock out the 7's still give me that endless volume but there is no fault in the 83's and the they too can rock very well.I thought I'd maybe replace the 7's but now I think I'll replace the 20's,mainly because of the rc64 which totally kicks butt,and breaks backs.

I don't want to draw any firm conclusions until I've put em' through their paces but the 83's should be an oustanding choice for those who love that live sound but complain of harsh highs on other Klipsch.I'd say long story short they're a winner and may win Klipsch some new consumers once they're widely heard.Sometime after I've listened to many different types of media I'll try and give an informative review.

[scott0527]

Mike you said:

"I am very much against Nationalism and all for a global society. Who cares if America falls - the world will probably become a better place".

Well I very much care if America falls!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't believe you said that,think about that statement.

Greg

As I recall, I think Mike is young, so he is probably still fresh with academia's views and opinions of the world.

[Fish]

Mike you said:

"I am very much against Nationalism and all for a global society. Who cares if America falls - the world will probably become a better place".

Well I very much care if America falls!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't believe you said that,think about that statement.

Greg

As I recall, I think Mike is young, so he is probably still fresh with academia's views and opinions of the world.

That's a good point,I was also hoping he may come on and say his ID had been hacked.I just can't see any reason to throw that in with subwoofer thread,china made or not.

[DrWho]

hmmm...maybe I shoulda wrote that differently...y'all are definetly taking it the wrong way, but I can see why considering I didn't convey it very well (which is even complicated by lack of inflection). My apologies to anybody that I pissed off.

I just don't like the arrogant headstrong "I'm American, I do what I want" mindset that much of the rest of the world sees in us...and I often associate this mindset with complaining about sending jobs overseas. It's the same egocentric mindset and natural disregard for anyone not american. (the same mindset the whites had with the blacks back in the day...)

Definetly will be the last time I rush a 'political post' - lol.

[oldbuckster]

China?? Isn't that where Denon is now manufactured??? It's just about sub woofers, right...............

[CAS]

It's historically the young and inexperienced who have the idealogical view of the world. I admire that. I loved being economically and socially liberal. I grew tired of America's incluence and I wanted every person in the world to have a nice home and retirement nest-egg.

It's when we graduate from college and figure out that our new $30,000 salary is more like $20,000 after Unlce Sam takes his bite. In most other countries its even worse (50%or more). Pure, unregulated capitalism will always be the best way to earn a healthy market. We also begin to see that the people we were so desperately trying to help don't want to help themselves. The majority of those on welfare will always be on welfare. The governments we try to assist will always overburden, and sometimes brutalize, its citizens. As the real world becomes more apparent we slowly learn that the reason the US is in the powerful position it's in is because we made different choices.

A global attitude is great, but you have to understand that the world doesn't think the way Americans do. In a way, they're even more greedy than we are. They give nothing to America. Most of the rest of the world, while being very accepting of other cultures, wouldn't change the way they do things for the life of them. While they accept, they certainly won't change their values. Americans are being forced to change by these special interests which is tearing our political parties futher apart.

No matter who's on top, they will always be the one to throw stones at. For all I know, so many who criticize the US could just be envious. Making one person happy will always make another angry. That's the way of the world and I won't apologize for it.

[CAS]

By the way, Mr. "Dr. Who,"<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

The world would be better without the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />US?????

Who but the US would stand up to Eastern Bloc Communism and oppression, would kick Saddam butt and his army out of Kuwait, would protect Muslims by leading the way against Slobodan Milosevic? Without the persuasion of the US, the terrorists of the world would soon gain a powerful foothold. Unfortunately, the passive attitudes of the EU, Canada and other modern countries would let the fires build until they exploded.

Remember these facts as well Dr. Who. The US gives over $30 billion in foreign aid per year, more than twice the amount of any other country in the world. I doubt you can comprehend a number like that. You know what that means? Many 3rd world nations would disintegrate and the poor people would be dying by the hundreds of thousands if not for us. And this only represents cash. It doesnt represent the military protection, physical assistance, and any other welfare aspect of giving.

My grandfather and his fellows paid a price youll never understand or fully appreciate. For the US to fail itll have to do so over my dead body. Our soldiers never asked for thanks, so none are necessary Dr. Who. Go back to enjoying your latte and remember why you have everything you do.

[fanbrain]

So, about those new RW subs. I hear they're pretty good.....

[Jay481985]

Who but the US would stand up to Eastern Bloc Communism and oppression, would kick Saddam butt and his army out of Kuwait, would protect Muslims by leading the way against Slobodan Milosevic? Without the persuasion of the US, the terrorists of the world would soon gain a powerful foothold. Unfortunately, the passive attitudes of the EU, Canada and other modern countries would let the fires build until they exploded.

Remember these facts as well Dr. Who. The US gives over $30 billion in foreign aid per year, more than twice the amount of any other country in the world. I doubt you can comprehend a number like that. You know what that means? Many 3rd world nations would disintegrate and the poor people would be dying by the hundreds of thousands if not for us. And this only represents cash. It doesnt represent the military protection, physical assistance, and any other welfare aspect of giving.

Sadly Germany probably would have control of Europe if not for America either that or Russian. Well we know what Russia would have done to Saddam and the Ethnic Albanians, run 10000 tanks through their town and wipe them out as Stalin was no philantropist either compared even with Hitler.

I remember the US gives the most country wise (Japan may beat us out as they tend to pay their way out as opposed to the US to provide essential needs like helicopters and and peacekeepers, etc) it is one of the lowest donators per family income. Yes Americans can do more but again we could do alot of things better its just that we are not machines and do not live life according to optimization.