jdm56 Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Anybody see the article in PM where they compared a new HD DVD player with a cheap upsampling conventional DVD player? They said upsampled standard DVD was almost as good as HD! --coulda knocked me over with a feather. The upshot was HD DVD is not worth the bucks at this point in time at least. Pretty surprising results from a tech magazine, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 jdm56: I must tell you that the article's claim doesn't suprise me much. I've been watching Hi-Def movies for a couple of years on my JVC, D-VHS recorder and I must admit that I've found the Hi-Def image from the digital videotape to be only marginally better than that of a well produced standard widescreen DVD played on my Pioneer Elite DV-47Ai standard DVD player. I do have Hi-Def cable so I know what Hi-Def looks like on my screen as a comparritor. The D-VHS image is every bit as good as the Hi-Def cable and sometimes even better. Yes, the Hi-Def image IS better. But I think that the standard DVD image is still pretty good especially for the money, and a lot better than what some of its critics are willing to admit, especially if it is being upconverted. Personally, I don't see myself buying a Blu-Ray or DVD-HD player any time soon, if ever. I prefer to wait for at least the next evolution of the laser disc that is already being tested. Of course, there are even newer formats in the making as well. The one thing they all have in common: They will all obsolesce both DVD-A and Blu-Ray. So, why bother with them in the first place, right? So long as I can still purchase D-VHS movies, I am missing nothing....except a big expense. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 The price of the equipment and the disc are out of this world, I think I'll pass for awhile, not worth it to me........................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me Loves Khorns Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 I agree. I've about decided that I am tired of being the early adopter type. I got a $1200 Yammy DVD player that was top of the line with Dolby Digital. Soon, all the players came out with DTS, darn, missed it. I then got a 65 in Mitsu big screen. I still like it, but it came out just months before DVI OR HDMI, darn, missed it again. I always seem to have bought something rather early, just could'nt wait to get it. Then the prices drop big time, and they figure out a slightly better formula or format, and I'm stuck with the first generation of reallly expensive stuff. I figure I'll wait until they get the formula right on the HD DVD stuff, keep watchin my hi def cable (which looks awesome to me) and my "regular" dvds ( which also look pretty good to me) In a couple of years, someone will come out with the mother ship of all players that will cost a resonable amount and support DVD, CD, DVD-A, SACD, DOLBY DIGITAL 1, 2, 3 ,4, 5,6, ETC, DTS 1-9, PRO LOGIC 1-7, HD-DVD, BLUE RAY, PURPLE RAY, RED RAY, DVD + - R, RW, RRW, RRRW, MP3, HDCD, Man, have I forgotten anything@#$%^ Yeah, I think I'm gonna sit tite on this one for a while. Plus, my goofy Mitsu wouldn't support it yet, remember, I'm the sucker who bought the HDTV just before DVI, HDMI came out.... Currently satisfied with my current video set, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Early adopters pay a premium for a machine that will go obsolete rapidly. It's not for everyone. The quality of most HD DVDs is significantly better than HD cable etc. In a year or three, HD DVD will become common. Blu-ray on the other hand may or may not make it. If it does make it, then universal players will be needed. Only time will tell whether unversal players will be available. Most consumers should wait out the format war. Particularly stay away from Blu-ray until the picture quality is improved. The picture on HD DVD is much better; it's just the HD DVD machines that are clunky. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted July 15, 2006 Author Share Posted July 15, 2006 I'm just surprised, really. I have Dish HD, and the best examples look stunning on my humble 47" 1080i Samsung CRT rear projector. And that is using the component connections since my Pioneer Elite receiver does not support HDMI or DVI. I find it hard to believe a high-def DVD source would not blow away standard DVD. There must be a lot of improvement just in going from 480i to 480p. Regarding early adoption and obsolescence, I feel yer pain! My "solution": live on the trailing dregs of technolgy! (see my equipment profile![]) I'm actually quite happy with my big ol' CRT rear projector. Especially considering it only cost me $860. It's like my dad always said: Poor people have poor ways![] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Anybody see the article in PM where they compared a new HD DVD player with a cheap upsampling conventional DVD player? They said upsampled standard DVD was almost as good as HD! --coulda knocked me over with a feather. The upshot was HD DVD is not worth the bucks at this point in time at least. Pretty surprising results from a tech magazine, eh? Any mention of the setup? Were composite or s-video cables used rather than componet or hdmi types? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted July 16, 2006 Author Share Posted July 16, 2006 Yes, their were some specifics about the set-up, but I don't have the issue here at home. I couldn't find anything on their web site either. I do remember thinking the gear used was nothing out-of the ordinary, and that the comparison itself seemed to be rather slapped together; one TV, one upsampling DVD player, one HD DVD player and just one or two titles, I think. Not exactly a scientific comparison. The panel consisted of just three people. Certainly not enough to prove or disprove anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Paul: You forgot the Avelink and JVC players that play m2t, tp, ts , and HD-WMV files as well as anything right now on standard discs. The quality is outstanding. Also EVD (Chinese), FVD (Tiawan), HVT (holographic 300 gig), HZT(holographic 1000 gig), and the Russian/German/Indian/FrenchI think its MVT. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 what was the size of PM's TV and room? - really large screens benefit from the higher res.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j-malotky Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 I wonder how much of it has to do with the source master also. I plan to keep using my upscaling HTPC for the next couple years. Then see what is available. Most likely I will be buying whatever available computer high def DVD drive and plugging it into my HTPC. JM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonrpayne Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 I didn't see the PM article, but for those of us who are into home theater I honestly think the picture quality of HD-DVD @1080i vs. up-scaled DVD is more that a little noticable, and don't forget about the support for newer higher-bitrate audio standards either. I wouldn't count BluRay out yet, but oh man did they ever drop the ball with the 1st run of BluRay discs. I was set to be an early adopter of this, with cash-in-hand, but the first releases were downright insulting. I'm thinking prices will be lower by xmas. What we REALLY need to see some movie that is a must-have for home theater nuts, The Matrix or the LOTR movies for example. These guys (both HD-DVD and BluRay) are ignoring some of the big things that would help them get the new standards adopted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Warner has announced that The Matrix, Harry Potter 4, the entire Lord of the Rings series and Batman Begins will be out in the fourth quarter in HD DVD. The LOTR series is likely to be the theatrical release, and not the extende versions. (This is a conspiracy to measure the number of times that they can sell you the same movies.) Blurry-Ray has not announced any major titles yet in the dual layer disks that are capable of delivering on the hype. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Some thoughts from Consumer Reports on this subject: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/electronics-computers/high-definition-dvd-8-06/overview/0608_hi-def-dvd_ov.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Some thoughts from Consumer Reports on this subject: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/electronics-computers/high-definition-dvd-8-06/overview/0608_hi-def-dvd_ov.htm I think this is where HD is going: "Cable and satellite TV providers vow to increase their offerings. Other new providers may deliver movies in high-definition to computerlike set-top boxes using the Internet."--Consumer Reports There are a considerable number of Movie Directors that don't necessarily want the clarity that HD can offer. I also feel the movies made prior to being filmed in HD won't look exponentially clearer than already upconverted from DVD's. IMO, Live Events will benefit most from HD technology and Movies will be a mixed bag as described in the article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMcGoo Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Cable and sat. high def are HD Lite. The folks with projectors will notice the difference the most. Movies shot on film have a resolution that can be as much as 6 times greater than HD DVD. HD DVD is 1920x1080 resolution while film can support up to 6000 lines of resolution. Some movies are far better on HD DVD than others. The D5 master used to make HD DVDs is sometimes not so good on quality. Some of the masters were made for SD DVD, so quality requirements were lower. The studio can't or won't make a new master, so the HD DVD suffers. Some of the older movies look great, others are weak. The AVS forum has an HD DVD software section that is brutally honest about quality, if you wait for the reviews. IMO, there is little risk in buying a Toshiba HD DVD player. The Toshiba upscales better than the better Pioneer Elite and Denon DVD players. Hence, you will always have a good DVD player, even if the format flops. The reason that I went for HD DVD are lower cost than Blu-ray, excellent picture quality and not buying SD DVDs to be replaced later with HD disks. The downside is slow boot and load times. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KungFuNat Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Ive seen both a standard dvd and HD-dvd of the same movie (serenity) played through the same player into the same projector at work. the image quality jump is nice, but nowhere near as big as the jump from VHS to DVD. conclusion: both formats will fail, and nobody gives a crap. I consider myself an early adopter of technology, and i will own a PS3 the day it is released, but standard DVDs are it for me for the forseeable future. dont forget, holographic-dvd should be on its way by the end of the year. we are talking hundreds of gigs per disc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 I'm just surprised, really. I have Dish HD, and the best examples look stunning on my humble 47" 1080i Samsung CRT rear projector. And that is using the component connections since my Pioneer Elite receiver does not support HDMI or DVI. I find it hard to believe a high-def DVD source would not blow away standard DVD. There must be a lot of improvement just in going from 480i to 480p. Regarding early adoption and obsolescence, I feel yer pain! My "solution": live on the trailing dregs of technolgy! (see my equipment profile![]) I'm actually quite happy with my big ol' CRT rear projector. Especially considering it only cost me $860. It's like my dad always said: Poor people have poor ways![] jdm56: Yeah the whole HDMI / DVI / Component Video compliance-thing has been a major sore spot of early adoptors such as myself from the beginning of the new evolution of HD formats. For now at least, the "powers-that-be" (movie studios) say they will "allow" HD discs to be produced such that the HD video portion is viewable using the unit's Component Video outputs. However, should piracy become an issue (and you know it will to them), they will cease manufacture of such discs and from that point-on, produce discs that only allow the HD Video signal to be passed through the HDMI output. So, that's the movie makers telling us, "Please, please, pretty please trust us and buy this fancy, new, expensive movie format and everything will be just fine." Yeah, right! As an early adopter whom has gotten burned more than once: I no longer trust anyone to honor their promises in this cut-throat industry. After talking with their research and development department, I'm alreadty miffed that Pioneer hasn't felt the need to design an HDMI-compliant adapter that would plug into their units' RS-232C terminal, thereby making their receivers HDMI compliant. Regardless of how good DVD-HD and Blu-Ray get, I'm holding off until the consumer base decides which format it's going to settle on. And, my guess is that it will be something other than DVD-HD or Blu-Ray. Probably something at or beyond Holigraphic DVD, as referred to above by NatGun. MrMcGoo: Bill - Although it has some limitations, the D-VHS tape format does an really nice job of producing HD images in both 720p and 1080i. I feel that shall suffice until a universal acceptance of one format (hopefully) occurs. -Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Natgun and Picky ; Right On ...................you know that piracy will ALWAYS be an issue.............Top of the Line today, obselete tomorrow.................Piracy really is the only issue............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 IMO, there is little risk in buying a Toshiba HD DVD player. The Toshiba upscales better than the better Pioneer Elite and Denon DVD players. I have a Denon DVD 3910 and if what you say is true I may have upgrade. I will have to see it with my on eyes before making the purchase. [H] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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