tjnif Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Ok, i never thouhgt that this would be so hard.......but the further i get into this hobby the more money I end up paying, Ssheeesh!! Anyway, I 'm using Belles and or Khorns, 2 Mcintosh MC2102 tube amps,and the C2200 tube preamp, I have a VPI HRX turntable....still in the box. What is your suggestion for a cartridge???? I listen mostly to 60's to early 80's classic rock, folk,and jazz. What would be your choice for a cartidge money being no object??? Thanks, I eagerly await your respnses!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 Ok, i never thouhgt that this would be so hard.......but the further i get into this hobby the more money I end up paying, Ssheeesh!! Anyway, I 'm using Belles and or Khorns, 2 Mcintosh MC2102 tube amps,and the C2200 tube preamp, I have a VPI HRX turntable....still in the box. What is your suggestion for a cartridge???? I listen mostly to 60's to early 80's classic rock, folk,and jazz. What would be your choice for a cartidge money being no object??? Thanks, I eagerly await your respnses!!! Congratulations on purchasing the VPI HRX. Assuming you are using a JMW 12.5 arm or better with your HRX, if cost is no object, I might suggest the ZYX Universe. I have not heard it personally, but I use the ZYX R1000 Airy 3-S(silver coils), which is a killer cartridge. The Universe, by all reports, is even better. If you don't wish to splurge for the Universe, an R1000 Airy 3-C (copper coils) may fill your needs. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAPTORMAN Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 I love reading post with "Money being no object" .Don't I wish I can say that sometimes. The more I get deeper into this hobby, I'm finding more and more that the most expensive stuff is not neccesarily the best sounding. As far as Catridge--My favorite or I should I say one of my favorite is the AT-0C9 MLII. With an HRX.....Hmmm, the ZYX line and the Koetsu would be good, make sure the JMW 12.6 matches with the cart. You know the complaince thing[]. I'm sure the experts are going to chime in. Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted July 16, 2006 Moderators Share Posted July 16, 2006 Look at the Lyra line, Helikon, in particular, also the Titan which would be too expensive for me. If you have the JMW 12.6 the Helikon is a perfect match for it. I also love the Shelter 901, it would be hard to beat if it is compliant with your tonearm. Congrats on the TT by the way, I am sure you are going to be enjoying that. Look at it this way, they are built to last a lifetime, or until you want to upgrade or buy their latest version, whichever may come first. Travis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 I"m getting a Thorens 125 turntable and have been exploring this. There is a thread here about it and Scott0527 and Mike Lindsay have given some tips on cartridge selection. It's the last few pages of this thread http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/4/ShowForum.aspx Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 The Transfiguration Orpheus might be worth a try. I'm sure the Transfiguration Temper V or W would be nice choices also. I use the W while Larry just upgraded from the V to the Orpheus. All great sounding carts and any of them should mate well with the JMW. I'v also heard great things about the Universe but have never heard one. Like any product, there are fans of both who swear by one or the other. Only YOUR ears can decide what sounds best to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Need to know the tonearm to make the recommendation. Assuming it is a VPI then if it is the 12.6 the ZYX Airy 3 should be a fine match (12.6 is actually a relatively low mass arm at 7.7 grams - but the ZYX is quite high compliance for an MC cart at 15). Combo should give a resonant frequency of around 11.5 Hz which is not too shabby. Jazman can confirm but I think the Airy comes with optional additional head weights (the cartridge itself being a rather light 5 grams). If so these should be used with the VPI arm as that will bring the rf figure down further towards an ideal 10 Hz. I dont have the specs on the other tonearms - but once we know the exat beast I am sure we can come up with something between us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Max, I don't have the head weights, but can I just tape nickels on there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Need to know the tonearm to make the recommendation. Assuming it is a VPI then if it is the 12.6 the ZYX Airy 3 should be a fine match (12.6 is actually a relatively low mass arm at 7.7 grams - but the ZYX is quite high compliance for an MC cart at 15). Combo should give a resonant frequency of around 11.5 Hz which is not too shabby. Jazman can confirm but I think the Airy comes with optional additional head weights (the cartridge itself being a rather light 5 grams). If so these should be used with the VPI arm as that will bring the rf figure down further towards an ideal 10 Hz. I dont have the specs on the other tonearms - but once we know the exat beast I am sure we can come up with something between us. Max, Yes, the ZYX R 1000 Airy 3 comes with the silver cartridge weight included in the box. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 ..... The more I get deeper into this hobby, I'm finding more and more that the most expensive stuff is not neccesarily the best sounding. That can hold true more so within given price ranges. I will not argue that one can find good sounding cartridges without spending your entire stash of US Treasury notes, but in general, the more performance you want to receive, most often it will mean higher costs. The more exotic materials and more sophisticed production processes come into play. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def Leper Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Ok, i never thouhgt that this would be so hard.......but the further i get into this hobby the more money I end up paying, Ssheeesh!! ......What would be your choice for a cartidge money being no object??? C'mon now, admit it, spending huge sums of cash is the real object, isn't it? You've got a good start on a system that will have friends and family talking about you behind your back (and making that circular hand sign at the temple) and folks here recommending $8,000 photo cartridges they haven't even heard. Wow, that's solid advice, isn't it? Apparently the assumption is that if it's that expensive, it has to sound great. Why not try a good "low end" cheapo cartridge? (under $1000) ;-) I know it will be embarassing to mention the price so just make up a price when you tell people how much it costs and they won't know the difference anyway. Two higher-end cartridges that I've heard and liked were the Grado Reference (I don't remember which particular model it was) but it was a moving magnet type with a wood body. The other was a Benz Micro Glider moving coil design, but the lower cost was offset with a very expensive preamp. If you want to start with a low cost cartridge with an excellent reputation and work your way up, try the DL-103 MC, available through a reliable ebay seller in Germany for $150. By starting with some reasonably-priced cartridges and moving up, you can stop when you can't hear the difference any more, and probably save yourself about $7,000 to spend on more glittery stuff, like those huge $8000 welding cables to hook up your 103db efficiency speakers. On the other hand, if the exercise is simply to spend big bucks for the bragging rights, good performance for the money isn't an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAPTORMAN Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 What kind of phono stage are you using?? Not sure about the MC C2200 if there is a built in Phono Stage. With an HRX, it would be nice to match it with a half decent PS. If the HRX is the latest version I think that's the one thats capable of dual arm--Might as well utilize it, but more money for you to fork out. Very exciting[][] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Ok, i never thouhgt that this would be so hard.......but the further i get into this hobby the more money I end up paying, Ssheeesh!! ......What would be your choice for a cartidge money being no object??? C'mon now, admit it, spending huge sums of cash is the real object, isn't it? You've got a good start on a system that will have friends and family talking about you behind your back (and making that circular hand sign at the temple) and folks here recommending $8,000 photo cartridges they haven't even heard. Wow, that's solid advice, isn't it? Apparently the assumption is that if it's that expensive, it has to sound great. Why not try a good "low end" cheapo cartridge? (under $1000) ;-) I know it will be embarassing to mention the price so just make up a price when you tell people how much it costs and they won't know the difference anyway. Two higher-end cartridges that I've heard and liked were the Grado Reference (I don't remember which particular model it was) but it was a moving magnet type with a wood body. The other was a Benz Micro Glider moving coil design, but the lower cost was offset with a very expensive preamp. If you want to start with a low cost cartridge with an excellent reputation and work your way up, try the DL-103 MC, available through a reliable ebay seller in Germany for $150. By starting with some reasonably-priced cartridges and moving up, you can stop when you can't hear the difference any more, and probably save yourself about $7,000 to spend on more glittery stuff, like those huge $8000 welding cables to hook up your 103db efficiency speakers. On the other hand, if the exercise is simply to spend big bucks for the bragging rights, good performance for the money isn't an issue. That's just nonsense! Who above has recommended a high priced cart that they haven't heard? I owned a Benz Micro-Glider and a Denon DL-103. Neither of which came close to the performance of the Transfigurations I mentioned above. Not by a long shot. I only mentioned the ZYX because I've heard others rave about them. You certainly can find a nice sounding cartridge for under a grand but it won't hold a candle to the higher priced ones mentioned above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Ok, i never thouhgt that this would be so hard.......but the further i get into this hobby the more money I end up paying, Ssheeesh!! ......What would be your choice for a cartidge money being no object??? C'mon now, admit it, spending huge sums of cash is the real object, isn't it? You've got a good start on a system that will have friends and family talking about you behind your back (and making that circular hand sign at the temple) and folks here recommending $8,000 photo cartridges they haven't even heard. Wow, that's solid advice, isn't it? Apparently the assumption is that if it's that expensive, it has to sound great. Why not try a good "low end" cheapo cartridge? (under $1000) ;-) I know it will be embarassing to mention the price so just make up a price when you tell people how much it costs and they won't know the difference anyway. Two higher-end cartridges that I've heard and liked were the Grado Reference (I don't remember which particular model it was) but it was a moving magnet type with a wood body. The other was a Benz Micro Glider moving coil design, but the lower cost was offset with a very expensive preamp. If you want to start with a low cost cartridge with an excellent reputation and work your way up, try the DL-103 MC, available through a reliable ebay seller in Germany for $150. By starting with some reasonably-priced cartridges and moving up, you can stop when you can't hear the difference any more, and probably save yourself about $7,000 to spend on more glittery stuff, like those huge $8000 welding cables to hook up your 103db efficiency speakers. On the other hand, if the exercise is simply to spend big bucks for the bragging rights, good performance for the money isn't an issue. I think we need to take a few things into account before we go down the "what a waste of money" line. If you look at the cartridges mentioned in this thread they are all highly recommended the (audiphile) world over for their sonic capabilities. The ZYX Airy 3 - regardless of its cost (and I think it happens to be nearer $3000 than $8000) happens to be a good match for the probable arm on this system - the Denon 103 (which is a great cartridge for its money) is not a good match. The Airy 3 is owned by Jazman - so it is not being recomended on hearsay alone and I too have heard it (on the Schroeder arm admittedly). It is, IMHO, one of the best cost-no-object cartridges available today for either a unipivot or gimbled arm. The Shelter 901 is another fine cartridge and one I have owned myself (actually I still have it although it is not installed in my system currently). Like the Denon 103 it is not a good match for the probable arm. The Helikon/Titan and the Transfiguration cartridges also have awesome reputations and are prefered by some over the above named units. It is rare that you hear of anyone who installs a cartridge for "bragging rights" alone. Cartridges are simply not visible enough to make that kind of statement. This is not a cheap and cheerful system. The turntable is in the $10,000 area and so recommendations as to cartridges could be expected to be in the $5000 region. It is very rare that someone would put a cheap cartridge on such a system. This is not illogical. The only time it can happen is, as in my case, a less expensive cartridge happens to be a perfect match for the arm in question. Both the Grado and the Benz you mentioned are good solid performers - but neither are in the class of the options listed (on this arm). There is a pervasive inverse snobbery on this forum when it comes to spending money on our hobby. A general rule of thumb (in any area) is that the more you spend the better you get. However much we like to pretend this applies in audio just about as much as anywhere else. Yes - it is possible to spend money unwisely on a mismatched system of the "best components". It is also possible to put together a remarkably good sounding system for a surprisingly low budget, but the general rule still holds. I think it always wise to bare in mind that we have not heard each other's systems in the main. It is all to easy to dismiss those that have spent less than us as cheapskates and those that have spent more as fools. Are you so confident that your system is the best for its money - or that is holds a candle to more expensive installations? Or even that is is not bettered by less costly alternatives? the question asked was "Money no object - what is the best?" The answers were in line with the question. Neither the question nor the answers are wrong - however much it gainsays your own approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Well said, Max! I really like the sound of my Thorens TD-124/SME 3009/Denon DL 103 as it is the best I have heard to date. Granted, I haven't spent any time listening to any real high-end units but that is about to change. I'll be heading up to Marylend for the gathering there in October, and will get a chance to hear Larry's and Gary's systems, along with Rich's (RPlace) I believe. Larry and Gary both have Basis tables with obscene cartridges on them. [] I can't wait to hear them and see what all the fuss is about. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Max - You have a PM!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 It's an incredible leap of faith to write a check for $5000 or more for a phono cartridge based only on comments you've read on line. At least in the case of Edmond, Gary and Max you have input from folks who acutaly OWN and ENJOY them! I buy phono catridges USED--it's a like buying a 2-year old luxury car--you save at least 40% off the new retail price and they can be had with VERY few "miles" on them! You have to be patient and buy from someone with a good reputation, but there are deals to be had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 It's an incredible leap of faith to write a check for $5000 or more for a phono cartridge based only on comments you've read on line. At least in the case of Edmond, Gary and Max you have input from folks who acutaly OWN and ENJOY them! I buy phono catridges USED--it's a like buying a 2-year old luxury car--you save at least 40% off the new retail price and they can be had with VERY few "miles" on them! You have to be patient and buy from someone with a good reputation, but there are deals to be had. Mine was a demo (supposedly less than 40 hours) from a reputable dealer. I got a full warranty and paid less than half of retail. Since I bought my table through the same dealer, it also included setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 If you can find your dream cartridge used then that is potentially the best possible outcome, but, IMHO the most important words of Allan's were: "and buy from someone with a good reputation" Spending your money to get a shot, worn out or worse still broken cartridge is not a good idea. Carts are delicate items so buying on-line, for example, would be something of a lucky dip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Having had the chance to listen quite extensively to a Shelter 90X last week (in a rig I know quite well), I must say that I was pretty impressed. Speed, articulation, dynamics.....you name it and I couldn't really find a fault with it - unless that other carts in that price bracket might run a bit more quietly. BUT then I also got a Denon-DL103D for my own rig. Playing the same LPs as with the Shelter I am not sure if the price difference is really justified. I wouldn't claim for a second that a side-by-side comparision wouldn't reveal differences, but listening to the Denon I do not feel I really miss anything - strange but true (and I don't think it's just owner subjectivity). Wolfram BTW: perhaps the most impressive LP setup I have encountered included a Klyne (6?) phono stage and a Koetsu Onyx(sp). Unfortunately the speakers were no horns but large Spendors.....still, Dave Brubeck was really playing just for me....breathtaking!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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