Budget CD Player

[MBM135]

...since listening anywhere but in your own set up makes it impossible to tell how it will actually sound.

I too am getting the urge to buy a new CD player. I love my Rega Planet but at almost 10 years old, it must be getting a bit long in the tooth and "surely" there must be a better sounding player out there. I am willing to look into the $400-500 range but it seems the Njoe Tjoeb, Rega 2000, and Cambridge Audio offerings will still not be reachable at that price. So, the price gap between "sounds good" and "sounds phenomenal" is widening? One should be able to get a phenomenal sounding player in the $300-500 range--or less. I often wonder though, does having an exotic name plate on the front of the machine make it subconsiously sound good? Everyone wants an exotic component or two...or three. After all, a Sony CD player isn't much of a conversation piece

I will hook up my $79 Sony DVD player this weekend and do some critical listening against the Rega...might be surprising what I find, I will let everyone know!

Mike

[SilverSport]

I would love to hear your thoughts on that...

Bill

[jt1stcav]

..."I often wonder though, does having an exotic name plate on the front of the machine make it subconsiously sound good? Everyone wants an exotic component or two...or three. After all, a Sony CD player isn't much of a conversation piece."

I know what you mean since Sony also make so many affordable components (like Panasonic, Sharp, Samsung, Pioneer, et al) that you'd find at any Wal-Mart and Best Buy. But you can't take the prestige away from the likes of their TOTL Sony SCD-XA9000ES SACD/CD player:

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=SCDXA9000ES&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=hav_HiFiComponents_CDPlayers2

[SilverSport]

it is not the fancy name plate...it is just perhaps better build quality...my 17 year old Yamaha ($299 on sale in 1989) weighed more than my 2 Toshiba 3950s AND the Sony DVD players...and the Yamaha was not TOTL then...it lasted all this time and then started coughing and acting up after 17 years...in contrast, my Toshibas have been running mostly okay for a little over a year now but are VERY lightweight and the parts seem to be very cheap plastic...now I really like the sound of the Toshibas and they were REALLY inexpensive compared to others out there BUT...I did a quick listen to my old Yamaha (before it started acting up again) and it seemed to have more bass...so I started thinking perhaps a dedicated CD might make a difference...when Sis talked about getting a new CD player, I at first recommended a DVD player pressed into CD duty (Toshiba 3990?) but then this Cambridge came up at a great price and I had been thinking of it not to long ago but never pulled the trigger...I have not read where one person complained that it didn't sound great or better than most CD players up to about $1K so.........scratching an itch I guess.

Bill

[DrWho]

I will hook up my $79 Sony DVD player this weekend

and do some critical listening against the Rega...might be surprising

what I find, I will let everyone know!

You might also try getting your wife or a friend in on the comparison

as well and make it at least a single blind. So have them choose which

player they hook up (at random) so that you don't know which is

playing. It should help eliminate the placebo effect that is most

certainly there. Someone wouldn't invest in a more expensive player if

they didn't honestly believe it should sound better.

Before anyone goes upgrading their cd player I would sooner recommend

the purchase of a dedicated DAC. The digital signal coming out of an

any player is going to be identical (just as you'd expect every cdrom

to read the same CD the same way on your computer).

[kev313]

I will hook up my $79 Sony DVD player this weekend and do some critical listening against the Rega...might be surprising what I find, I will let everyone know!

You might also try getting your wife or a friend in on the comparison as well and make it at least a single blind. So have them choose which player they hook up (at random) so that you don't know which is playing. It should help eliminate the placebo effect that is most certainly there. Someone wouldn't invest in a more expensive player if they didn't honestly believe it should sound better.

Before anyone goes upgrading their cd player I would sooner recommend the purchase of a dedicated DAC. The digital signal coming out of an any player is going to be identical (just as you'd expect every cdrom to read the same CD the same way on your computer).

That is a pretty neat idea and could lead to some interesting results. I would be careful, though, about putting too much stock in your findings. Many who are not rabid Klipsch forum posters and who do not do this type of thing as a hobby (or professionally as is the case with some of you) could probably hear the difference between a nice Klipsch based system and, say, a HTIB receiver used in 2 channel mode from Best Buy. These same "average Joes and Janes" would just as likely stumble when pressed to differentiate between Craig's VRDs and a Crown K2 or a cheapie Sony cd player and a Planet. In my experience, my friends who are not "in the hobby" (uhh...all of them!), listen for two things - thumping bass and volume. Everyone is different and we all bring our own experiences and prejudices to the listening room, but perhaps that illustrates my point.

Most of us, however, are probably better listeners. I am not saying we are golden eared elite - not at all - I think that that kind of elitist attitude very nearly snuffed out non-mass market hi-fi and still might; but we ARE experienced listeners. This is our hobby, and we don't listen casually all of the time. We know how to evaluate components and how to articulate our opinions. We also sharpen these skills daily by discussing our hobby here.

Another example I can think of off the top of my head is detail retrieval vs. harsh or edgy sound. Think Klipsch on bad solid state - where newbie might hear a system as possessing amazing clarity we might know that the brittle edge is not a trait one seeks in a quality system.

Heck - I've been doing this for years and have gone through some superb equipment and I'm still refining my idea of what "good" or "better" is!

[DrWho]

kev, I would agree with the logic of "experienced listening" and being

able to articulate differences without bias, except for two particular

points that I wanted to bring up...

The first one being that "certified" "golden-ears" have failed double

blind ABX testing on all sorts of comparisons. That is not to say that

there is absolutely no sonic difference - rather I personally like to

think of it as there is more to listening than just hearing with our

ears: "psychoacoustics." But anyways, the point being that someone

hears a difference when they know what's playing, but they don't hear a

difference when they don't know what's playing.

The second thing being that you can always compare against the original

sound. Putting aside the notion that most recordings aren't striving

for perfect replication of a live event, rather creation of something

new - there is always the option of comparing our playback systems to

the original sound the recording engineer intended to be there. This is

a very different process than comparing the sound of gear against gear.

In the right context it is quite possible to get someone to prefer A

over B, but in another context get them to prefer B over A (context being the order of gear and music played). That is not

to say that gear comparisons are useless in determining which sounds

better, but it is far more reliable to compare against the original.

Sadly that is not exactly a common liberty in this hobby so we have to

rely on the direct comparisons - always changing our perception of the

ideal as we better learn the shortcomings of the music to which we

listen.

In my limited experience it seems the minute you exceed the fidelity of

the recording, you start decreasing the enjoyment of the music...so

either you change your tastes to better recordings, or you "settle" for

a lesser system that results in a larger music selection. So even the

subjective frame of reference is constantly changing.

I guess my point is that there are limitations to the results of an

unbiased experienced listener. There really is no perfect way to subjectively

compare audio gear. Thus the importance of more objective approaches (measurements - ah yes, the dreaded tin ears) []

[kev313]

kev, I would agree with that logic completely except for two particular points...

The first one being that "certified" "golden-ears" have failed double blind ABX testing on all sorts of comparisons. That is not to say that there is absolutely no sonic difference - rather I personally like to think of it as there is more to listening than just hearing with our ears: "psychoacoustics"

The second thing being that you can always compare against the original sound. Putting aside the notion that most recordings aren't striving for perfect replication of a live event, rather creation of something new - there is always the option of comparing our playback systems to the original sound the recording engineer intended to be there. This is a very different process than comparing the sound of gear against gear. In the right context it is quite possible to get someone to prefer A over B, but in another context get them to prefer B over A. That is not to say that gear comparisons are useless in determining which sounds better, but it is far more reliable to compare against the original. Sadly that is not exactly a common liberty in this hobby so we have to rely on the direct comparisons - always changing our perception of the ideal as we better learn the shortcomings of the music to which we listen.

In my limited experience it seems the minute you exceed the fidelity of the recording, you start decreasing the enjoyment of the music...so either you change your tastes to better recordings, or you "settle" for a lesser system that results in a larger music selection. So even the subjective frame of reference is constantly changing.

All great points. I should add that I have no idea who has "Golden ears," but I imagine they are the guys that write those high falutin' letters in Stereophile and TAS.

The only other point I would make is that I also have no idea as to what either the original sound or the sound the recording engineer wanted me to hear actually sounds like (for any of my cd's or records). You've got alot of studio time under your belt so you have a better idea of what that might be. I've got none, so I've got to come up with my own criteria for good sound (which is not to suggest that you have to be a slave to the original sound in defining the "good sound," only that we have different starting points for this journey). I would agree, however, that trying to achieve the studio sound is something to shoot for.

I do have a lot of experience with live music as I get out to local shows and clubs very often and also have been a CSO subscriber for a number of years. I love live music, but I certainly don't want that sound in my home.

[jazman]

"In my experience, my friends who are not "in the hobby" (uhh...all of them!), listen for two things - thumping bass and volume. "

That statement pretty much describes the expectations of many of the members of this forum when evaluating an amp. Does not say much for the so-called experienced listener.

Klipsch out.

[DrWho]

Well I wasn't trying to refer to any studio time I've spent...I'm just as clueless as the next guy as to what the actual sound is supposed to be - unless of course I'm listening to something I recorded. [] I must confess it's quite common that I bring recordings home and they sound infinitely better than what is going on in the studio (sometimes infinitely worse too). I'll go ahead and listen to the recording literally on a dozen or two systems and then go back to the studio and make tweaks based on the sound everywhere except what I'm hearing in the studio. I don't get to play in the nicest studios, but the guys that do and write about it always mention the importance of referencing the mix. So in a way it's pointless to aim for the "studio sound" because the sound intended by the sound engineer never really existed in the first place... []

And I absolutely agree with this sentiment:

"I love live music, but I certainly don't want that sound in my home."

What we really need is to remove the ambiguity and standardize the playback scheme - similar to what THX is doing for the movie industry.

Man, how the heck did we go from cd players to this?

[Audio Flynn]

"In my experience, my friends who are not "in the hobby" (uhh...all of them!), listen for two things - thumping bass and volume. "

That statement pretty much describes the expectations of many of the members of this forum when evaluating an amp. Does not say much for the so-called experienced listener.

Klipsch out.

True and disappointing.

[kev313]

Well I wasn't trying to refer to any studio time I've spent...I'm just as clueless as the next guy as to what the actual sound is supposed to be - unless of course I'm listening to something I recorded. [] I must confess it's quite common that I bring recordings home and they sound infinitely better than what is going on in the studio (sometimes infinitely worse too). I'll go ahead and listen to the recording literally on a dozen or two systems and then go back to the studio and make tweaks based on the sound everywhere except what I'm hearing in the studio. I don't get to play in the nicest studios, but the guys that do and write about it always mention the importance of referencing the mix. So in a way it's pointless to aim for the "studio sound" because the sound intended by the sound engineer never really existed in the first place... []

And I absolutely agree with this sentiment:

"I love live music, but I certainly don't want that sound in my home."

What we really need is to remove the ambiguity and standardize the playback scheme - similar to what THX is doing for the movie industry.

Man, how the heck did we go from cd players to this?

Who knows? BUt to get back on track, I will agree that Sony cd players are good (have been good to me, anyway)!

[markmaple]

I have a silver Cambridge Audio Azur 640C (v1) that I was planning on putting up on Audiogon. It is in like-new condition. I used it very little and took it out of the rack when I added a Denon DVD-3910 to handle all of my disc media. I will sell it for $320 delivered (US only).

[TommyK]

I cant comment on other Cd players,but currently i have the phillip 963 and thei 2k cd player( dont remember the model)..both sitting in the garage with the laser problem..I would stay away from phillip..

TTRHP,

I must say that your moniker is sometimes the highlight of my day. God bless you child, God bless you.

TommyK

[kaiser SET say]

Just to backup Mark's asking price these things fly off A-goN!

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlplay&1160673083

[SilverSport]

I agree...that's the one I bought 2 days ago...great prices all...can't wait for it to get here...

Bill

[kaiser SET say]

Excellent score Bill[]

Seti brought his to Hope and I have to say it's a lot of machine for the money, he got his late last year for $275.00 off A-goN right after they released the V2 model. []

I'm not sure if this player can be beat in the under $300 catagory[]

[SilverSport]

thanks...I was able to get it a bit under that WITH insured shipping to my work...should be here in a day or two...

Bill

[Duke Spinner]

. I love live music, but I certainly don't want that sound in my home.

well, that's Exactly what I want ...

that's why my signal chain includes Crown 'n JBL

[kev313]

. I love live music, but I certainly don't want that sound in my home.

well, that's Exactly what I want ...

that's why my signal chain includes Crown 'n JBL

Great. Enjoy - that's what it should be about. Trying to get gear to suit your taste. For me, live music is a bit too loud and overpowering to be of any use in the home environment. The "guitar shakes my kidneys" effect is cool in the club, but all wrong in my house. Similarly, I LOVE seeing the CSO play, but I can consistently get better sound at my house. Not louder, mind you, but better balanced.