discusman Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 I have carpeted floors over concrete. anyone using spikes under their Chorus II or Forte speakers? I know they're on stands but would it improve sound if spikes were inserted under the base? if so, what do you guys use and where do you get them?. thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 i do not have any speakers that require the spikes but from what i understand their main purpose is to keep the speaker stable and in place. if it improves the sound, well that is good too! LiMM! ------------------ -justin I am an amateur, if it is professional help you want email Amy or call her toll free @ 1-888-554-5665 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 From what I 'under-stand' spikes are to keep the speakers from ratteling the floor and ultimately the stereo components. Subjecting the components to such virbrations will more than likely degrade the detail and intensity of the tweeters and some partial spectrum of the midrange. Since I have hardwood floors I don't feel good about using the spikes that came with my 20's with little receiver cups to put the spikes on as to not dig into my girlfriend's favorite Red Oak. Another way to avoid vibrating the equipment is to get some sort of vibration isolating products. Try going here: http://www.vibrapod.com Compared to most other isolation products these things are dirt cheap at about $6 each pod. ------------------ Tom KLF-20 Mahogany (Cornell Hotwired) McIntosh C33 Preamp McIntosh MVP-841 CD/DVD Rotel RB-1080 Amp Yamaha PF-800 Turntable/ Sure V15 Type V Cartridge Ortofon VMS-30 mkII Cartridge Stanton 999SS Cartridge Yamaha K-1020 Cassette dbx 1231 EQ H.H. Scott 830z Analyzer Monster Interlink 400mk II Monster Interlink 300mk II Monster Video 2 (DVD to TV) Studio Tech U-48RW Cabinet Monster Power HTS-5000 Power Conditioner/Surge Protector Original 12ga. Monster Cable Enough empty boxes for a fire hazard! This message has been edited by tblasing on 11-14-2001 at 08:09 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted November 14, 2001 Share Posted November 14, 2001 We had a round on the spike question some time ago. Our member didn't want to modify the speaker and therefore built a platform with spikes on which to sit the speakers. Improved sound is often reported. I can't quite buy that the spikes keep the speaker still. It seems to me unlikely that it is moving in the first place. But others may well disagree. On the other hand, I do believe that the spikes transmit some bass into to floor and this may enhance bass response in the room. . .and next door. All this is a matter of good natured debate. Have fun. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted November 15, 2001 Share Posted November 15, 2001 Placing speakers on spikes actually reduces the vibration imparted to the floor. This sounds anti-intuitive because one would expect that creating an even stronger mechanical bond to the floor would increase said vibration but the reverse is nonetheless true. It has to do with the way that mechanical vibration behaves as it travels through a conductor. The article in the following link gives an explanation that does not require a doctorate in acoustical engineering to understand,(unlike damned near anything else I have read regarding this subject) - BTW their magazine and books are excellent. DOH !! - Forgot to post the link,(all too frequently heard sound of palm slapping forehead): http://www.uhfmag.com/Features/Feature.html ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE This message has been edited by lynnm on 11-15-2001 at 08:42 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted November 15, 2001 Share Posted November 15, 2001 what is that magazine you are speaking of? ------------------ -justin I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted November 15, 2001 Share Posted November 15, 2001 A further note: I live in a 100 year old bungalow with Fir floors and a lovely wife who would BBQ MY BUTTOCKS,(In a New York Minute!!),if I ever spiked my KLF 30's into said floors. My speakers are spiked and I still get some Slap and Tickle,(or as much as I at my age am up to - getting old is a pain in the butt but when I consider the alternative...). Here is how I satisfied both my need for Sonic perfection,, and physical survival: I went to my nearest hardware superstore and purchased a 12"x12" granite tile and a small stone bit,(1/8"). I also purchased a package of "Blue-Tack". The granite tile was priced at C$12.00 and the price included enough cuts to have the tile cut into 9 square pieces. The Blue-Tac cost me about C$5.00 but even here could have been found for about C$2.25. I drilled a hole about half-way through each square at its mid-point and then applied a pea sized ball of Blue-Tac to the underside. The spikes are fitted into the drilled holes and adjudsted as necessary to provide a stable platform - I live in a 100 year old house and that is definitely an issue Old House/New House the basic laws of Physics/Acoustics apply and for that; - I refer you to the link I provide in my earlier post. ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted November 15, 2001 Share Posted November 15, 2001 Justin_tx_16 Ultra High Fidelity Magazine has been around since 1982 and unlike some other "Audiophile" magazines is prepared to look at audio that is not available only to those of you in "The Millionare's Club" This is not to say that they do not get a little over the top at times - but even I have been able to purchase an amp they have recommended,(an AQ1003 Integrated Tube Amplifier by Antique Sound Lab - That thing is pure Ambrosia) . They seem to have a bias toward Tube Amplifiers,(as do I), but also give serious attention to all High Fidelity components and are not the least bit shy about calling a POS a POS whether it be tube driven or transistor driven. They are also prepared to suitably praise a good piece of gear regardless of the underlying technology. The technical articles are excellent and are written in such a way that most of the information is accessible and useful to most audio enthusiasts. well worth a look. ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE) This message has been edited by lynnm on 11-16-2001 at 12:51 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted November 15, 2001 Share Posted November 15, 2001 how much would a subscription cost ot that mag? ------------------ -justin I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted November 15, 2001 Share Posted November 15, 2001 Justin- Be careful when it comes to subscriptions!! Yes, they can save you a lot of money over the newstand but get this. It was time to renew my subscription to PC-World and the outside cover glued to the magazine quoted an annual price of $29.99. I don't remember paying that much the last time so I looked through the mag to find all the subscription cards quoting $24.99. This gets even better--I go online to their website, you guessed it! $19.97/year. The best part about this whole thing is that inside the mag was a page that said you could sign up for automatic renewels of your subscription. **LOL** Yea, at what price this time?! I bet it's not $19.97! ------------------ Tom KLF-20 Mahogany (Cornell Hotwired) McIntosh C33 Preamp McIntosh MVP-841 CD/DVD Rotel RB-1080 Amp Yamaha PF-800 Turntable/ Sure V15 Type V Cartridge Ortofon VMS-30 mkII Cartridge Stanton 999SS Cartridge Yamaha K-1020 Cassette dbx 1231 EQ H.H. Scott 830z Analyzer Monster Interlink 400mk II Monster Interlink 300mk II Monster Video 2 (DVD to TV) Studio Tech U-48RW Cabinet Monster Power HTS-5000 Power Conditioner/Surge Protector Original 12ga. Monster Cable Enough empty boxes for a fire hazard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted November 15, 2001 Share Posted November 15, 2001 my favorite is when ppl sign you p for mag's on the net and you just get the bills ------------------ -justin I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted November 16, 2001 Share Posted November 16, 2001 Here is a link for Ultra High Fidelity Magazine with pricing information. If you are unsure about the subscription route you may be able to find a copy at an Audio store in your area or at a "big box" book and magazine retailer such as Amazon.com If you buy a single copy and do not find the Magazine interesting then you are only out the single issue price - On the other hand you may find that the magazine is interesting enough that a subscription is worth the price: http://www.uhfmag.com I do not suggest for a moment that they are the be all and end all of Audio magazines - I Simply like this magazine. On the other hand you may decide it is not for you. ------------------ It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca. 1304 BCE) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prana-Bindu Posted November 16, 2001 Share Posted November 16, 2001 Indeed, spikes are supposed to reduce the amount of vibration traveling into the speaker cabinets. They are supposed to improve performance by reducing the amount of unintended vibrations moving the diaphragms on the speakers or whatever part of the speaker vibrates to make the sound. All speakers vibrate in some way to create the air vibrations that make up sound. Constructive and destructive interference from cabinet vibrations can change the vibrations of the speakers' moving parts and I think can also affect the resonance that contributes to the sound in the speaker cabinets. If you squint your eyes real hard, every component of a stereo system is basically a controlled vibration maker/conductor.... Also, spikes look really hard-core high-tech under speakers, impressing all your non-audiofreak friends. Just don't start talking about it, because that will just elicit yawns and obviously feigned attempts at attention. ------------------ May the bridges we burn light our way.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted November 16, 2001 Share Posted November 16, 2001 If you like the effect of the spikes, fine. I'm not about to take issue with that. However, I can't buy the technical explanation given in the link. For one, if as claimed in the first half of the theory, mechanical / vibrational energy is not transmitted into the floor, and is reflected back into the speaker structure, then the speaker retaining the vibrational energy. But the second half the theory is that the speaker structure is moving less. These taken together do not make sense to me. Actually, I think the spike creates no impedance mismatch as claimed. Rather, since there is a good mechnanical connection, even at the point of the spike, this is a better mechanical link than when there is a resiliant connection. There is certainly no damping by loses in the metal. Again, there should be a difference because of the mechanical connection. Whether "different" is "better" is another issue. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prana-Bindu Posted November 16, 2001 Share Posted November 16, 2001 Perhaps the difference would be likelier to be considered better by most of us if the speakers are voiced with that kind of coupling in place? What does it mean to "voice" a speaker anyway? I was just pretending to know what that means when I asked the above.... ------------------ May the bridges we burn light our way.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted November 19, 2001 Share Posted November 19, 2001 "Voicing a speaker" means, in the the simplest sense, that the designer assembles a prototypes, listens to it, then messes around with some aspect of the design (various iterations of a specific driver, minor changes to the crossover, swapping out some of the passive components, like resistors and capacitors, for other brands or other units with slightly different specs, changes in the types / amount / locations of damping materials, that sort of thing)<\i> in an attempt to get the speaker to "sound" better to the designer. This is an area of quite a bit of controversy. Some very successful designers believe that this "voicing" process is far more important than the theoretical design stage, and is much more important than measuring the speaker's output and adjusting the design based on thise measurements. Other designers take a very opposite view - if you measure the right things, then measuring the speaker is far more realiable than some subjective impression formed by sighted listening trials. John Dunlavy, earlier of Duntech now of Dunlavy Audio Labs, is probably the epitomy of the "if you measure the right things and measure them correctly, you know everything you need to know to produce the ideal speaker" school of thought, and his designs (the DAL SC-IV, SC-V, SC-VI in particular) have never, to the best of my knowledge, received less than outstanding reviews by any reviewer I've ever read. At the other extreme position, we have a very, very successful speakers, the BBC's on-site monitoring devie, the LS3/5a. This was designed back in the late 70's primarily by H D Harwood, (of the BBC's Research Department) and both M E Whatton and R W Mills of the Designs Department. While mathematical models of the crossover topologies were used as a starting point, almost the entire design process centered on these folks building a prototype, listening to it, then tweeking it one way or another to get it to sound more "right." The result of this effort was a speaker that, for the past 20 years, has been generally regarded as one of the most successful designs ever conceived. So, I guess, both points of view are correct - if you know how to measure, what to measure, and have the proper technology and environment in which to conduct the measurements, you can design a very good speaker "by the book", with no "voicing" required. Or, if you are a good listener, know how to listen, and know how to relate what you're hearing to specific design decisions, you can build a pretty good speaker based almost exclusively on "voicing" it. Ray ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Ray's Music System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBusa Posted November 19, 2001 Share Posted November 19, 2001 I think I need to get some spikes too! I'm convinced that my cornwalls are travelling all around the room when my back is turned. The funny thing is that when I spin around really quick toward them they jump right back to where I placed them in the 1st place! I am pretty sure they're trying to get to the heresys on the other side of the room for a little smackdown. I believe the svelt, oak veneer hereseys have been taunting the big, ugly, bare birch workhorses for quite some time. I suspect these cornwalls are not standing for that any longer! Luckily the 12 gauge wire is very strong. I see that it's stretching some from the speakers straining against it though. Will spikes help in this situation? thanks ------------------ My system thus far: 1980 Cornwalls (mains) 1990 Heresy II's (rears) 2001 KLF-C7 (center) 2001 KSW15 (Subwoofer) HK AVR 510 (reciever - Going back soon!) Kenwood DV402 (DVD) Sony KV 27V55 (9 year old 27" TV) This message has been edited by BigBusa on 11-19-2001 at 01:30 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted November 19, 2001 Share Posted November 19, 2001 Big - (LOL). I think you might want to add some turnbuckles to cinch those CWs tighter to the floor. I just used a couple of them on my Forte and peace was restored between it and the bigger, badder Chorus's (who have just a black finish compared to the beatiful luster of the Forte -- finish envy??). Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prana-Bindu Posted November 19, 2001 Share Posted November 19, 2001 Thanks for the info, Ray. Does anyone know whether Klipsch speakers are voiced with spikes on? It would be great to have every detail of the voicing process: room size, treatments, associated equipment, etc. Choices like diffusion vs. absorption in room treatments may be easier to make with such information. ------------------ May the bridges we burn light our way.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace Posted November 19, 2001 Share Posted November 19, 2001 Hi, I spiked my KLF-30's a while back and really thought it made a difference in the sound. It just seemed less muddy. I've got a similar set-up to the original poster in that I've got carpet (berber) on a concrete slab. I was not expecting any difference in sound, I did it because Bob or Phil recommended it when I first bought the speakers. I've also changed out the little brass straps on the back of the speakers with monster and played with speaker distance from the wall (50-300 mm, with about 20 degree toe in). Surprisingly, I'd have to say the spikes have made the most difference, and it was a good difference. That being said, I've been playing with a tone generator and finding that my room has some weird acoustics (see soon to be post elsewhere in this forum)... At any rate, you can always remove the spikes if you don't like 'em. I'd say it's worth a try. Mace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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