mobile homeless Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 Christ.... that is funny as hell! Heh... lordy. Well, I have to say that Randy does not have the benefit of your Sonic Maximizer so all is probably lost via his jack-in-the-box system. The poor bastard...stuck with that ole 300B Laurel IIx Single-Ended Triode Boom box... When will he ever learn! Ole Randy. Hey, ole Minn-Male is new so we can let him off this one time. Besides, he did come out on the right side of the argument so he gets points for that. I guess he didnt detect the sarcasm dripping from your post. Optimus 6 channel receiver? heh... Where is your Dynamic Expander? kh ------------------ Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 Lordy, mdeneen...Your post is unfortunate. The site is meant as an explanation for some of the properties and constructs within and around cable that lead to sonic/performance differences, not a PAPER submitted to a Scientific publication! While some of the "wow" comments (and a few are a bit tongue in cheek but not necessary) are not needed nor useful, but the subject matter he brings up is all revelant in the study of why cables have certain sonic signatures. It is MEANT for the layman... In addition, an article does not have to be footnoted and laced with spec proof to have validity and meaning. The lack thereof is not a damnable offense. The whole site is meant as a primer for people looking up information on cable/component interaction. In addition, I have listened to many of Jon Risch's designs (he does not SELL cable nor market it - the site and his designs are in the public domain and meant for the DIY music lover to construct his or her own cables at a HUGE savings to commercial designs), and have found them to be EXCELLENT, rivaling my far more costly cables. For you to slander the articles misses the point and in turn, causes one to lose many of the good and valid information within. Much of this info is also documented elsewhere but this is good spot for an all around overview for those interested. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-20-2002 at 12:57 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 A lot of folks appreciate what Risch has contibuted to DIY audio. I am one of them. He tells it how it is with wire, no hype, no BS. He takes Physics SERIOUSLY, he doesn't buy into the simple Physic theories. I need to get some of that Belden Coax.(IC's.) THANX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curmudgeon Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 Boy has THIS discussion gotten interesting since I last posted. You guys would make Don Rickles proud! I just love the smell of sarcasm in the morning! Seriously, though, I've been looking around lately and there's a plethora of speaker wires and interconnects making all kinds of claims so its rather hard to weed through. I may soon be trying some of the DIY recipes just to see what happens, I'm somewhat jaded towards the wire difference claims but starting to get rather curious. I'm going to install permanent in-wall speaker wiring soon for the HT system and will be looking for high-quality cost effective wire since this is one job I don't want to consider re-doing. Jon's article makes a lot of sense but (like most of you)I don't have the background to quantify the information fully so it seems some experimenting is in order. To Mobile: I'm going to need probably 200' or so of wire to do 7 channels, any hot tips on a supplier of good stuff? To the dude with the "Optimus SS-120 six channel receiver (120 watts! Times 6!) Lloyd subwoofer (fits under my coffe table) Kenwood CD150 CD player (a real keeper) Sony XA700 speakers (15" woofers!)": You may want to chime out on this topic, with THAT system you're lucky to tell the difference between a CD and an 8-track tape, much less speaker wires (Stay out of Walmart and Home Depot!). That one's for you, Mr. Rickles! 2-CHANNEL Mobile Fidelity UltrAmp (Michael Yee PA-1) amp Linn Kolektor preamp Linn Sondek LP12 turntable, Basik Plus arm Rega Planet CD player Denon DR-F7 cassette deck B&W CDM9NT speakers HOME THEATER Sherwood R-956 (utilized as a pre-pro) Acurus A125X5 amp Acurus A150 amp Sony DVP-S330 DVD player Sony CDP-C725 CD player Klipsch Cornwall II main's Klipsch Academy center Klipsch KSW12 subwoofer Sansui XL-500 rear's (full-range, no Bose cubes here!) Cerwin-Vega LS6C rear center Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 Mdeneen, Just wanted you to know you are not alone in your concerns about the John Risch information. I have previously read some info of his, and while it always seemed logical and well thought out, frankly, for a novice such as me, making the information seem that way is probably fairly easy. Naturally, I wondered where the listening tests were that he used to verify his theories, and sadly I did not find any. His motives may be honorable, and he may be 100% correct, but without the support of some type of controlled verification, I, like yourself, am surprised at how people accept information such as this as gospel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 Kevin, Go to Audio Asylum and research the Archives in Cable Asylum, and Tweakers asylum too. You will find hundreds of posts verifying listening tests from folks who have tried Risch's cable recipes. And others, Chris VH...etc... This is all subjective posting on the people's part. (No DBT rule.) Yes, there is no scientific proof. But you think all these poster's are full of BS, a bunch of sheep? And it is tough to tell differences in wire, when you have 5 billion components chained linked together, BTW. To each his own. THANX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 Mike, I am not sure if I am putting this exactly the correct way, but the capacity for people to fool themselves into thinking that they have achieved a desired result, even when they haven't, is a well documented phenomenon. All of us are susceptible to it to some degree. There is an abundance of science out there that shows this is especially true in audio. And the anecdotal evidence of this phenomenon, in the form of products that have been foisted upon and accepted by the audiophile community as a "breakthrough", only to fade quietly into oblivion when the next "breakthrough" appears is even more overwhelming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 Well, you have finally done it. And to be honest, I must thank you. That is officially the LAST wire post I am EVER going to make, or respond to, unless it is a good rec. I said this earlier in a wire debate, perhaps even on the first page of this one, and I didnt stick by it. Reading your post has finally done it. So, Thank You, mdeneen. While I feel a bit frustrated, I also feel relief. What in the hell am I doing this for anyway???????? Can one possibly waste time in a more fruitless way? If anyone DOES want any wire recommendations, they can drop me an email at any time. Otherwise, it's a WIRE FREE forum for me (that is, in discussing whether it offers differences or not). In the future, I will look to this forum for advice on vintage horn components. I will continue to banter about amplification, gear, and music. But thank sweet jesus the WIRE thing is OVER. Selah. Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 You gave it a gallant effort, Mister kh. Makes one shake one's head, doesn't it? "Ignorance is Bliss". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 nt This message has been edited by TBrennan on 01-20-2002 at 09:42 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 Yeah, your probably right. I probably am bullsh**ting myself. Sorry if touched a nerve there, Tom. Look, all I did was change my system from Litz wire to Cat5. I noticed a change, it seems to sound better,IMO. Sorry if I seemed Patronizing, that post was Cocky, and I apologize. I'm just a bonehead rank audio amateur, pay no attention to me, I'm completely new to the Hobby. I've been to your website, and I really respect the old altec/JBL gear, and the sites you have refered everyone to concerning antique speakers. Like I said, real speakers. I have no life long audio history, but when me and my buddie were kids (mid-70's)we always loved Klipschorns but knew the Altec Lansing/JBL stuff was a step above. I mean no disrespect to you Tom, I'm sorry. I'm done with this wire thread BS, It's gettin' ugly. THANX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 I didnt think your were being too particularly cold hearted...just a bit off the cuff. You have earned my undying respect for taking this twisted thread to FOUR pages. Tom sometimes takes things to heart; indeed, I have had my run-ins with ole Tom but we could all easily assemble in his horn den and have a merry ole time listening to various racket at live levels. Tom, what the hell you gettin' so bent outta shape again for, anyway? Didnt you like my Peavey line? kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 I must say, I have been thoroughly entertained by this thread. I am relatively new to this hobby and am not quite sure where I stand on this topic. I want to believe that wire makes a difference (to my own ears with my own system) but have never really used anything other than Monster 12ga. I am quite happy with it but really don't know any different. It's quite evident that no one is going to win the wire war here, but I would like to commend the main contributors to this thread (mobile, mdeneen, Prana-Bindu, Kevin S, Tom Brennan and Colin) for their spirited, knowledgable and well-written thoughts on the subject matter. I think everybody on this board should be thankful that all of you are here. You may not always agree with one another but that's what makes this board so interesting. If we all thought alike and all had the same equipment, what fun would that be? Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 Mike---I'm sorry too Buddy, sometimes online arguements get out of hand, we miss the little gestures that in person express the goodwill of the arguers; the body language, tone of voice, the smile during the jab. As Mobile says, no doubt we'd have a great time together in person listening to music and argueing back and forth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 Mobile--Peavey seems to make some pretty good stuff actually, some of their speakers are very good. If Mr. Risch is who I think he is he's a speaker designer at Peavey who contributed in the early days of the AA high-efficiency forum. Funny thing about Peavey; Rock and Rollers often scorn it but I see lots of Country guys use it, given that Country bands generally actually work more than Rock bands that would seem to be in Peavey's favor. While the rock guy's in his basement obsessing about the sound of his 59 Les Paul and his Marshall 1959 the Country guy's actually out doing a job with his MIM Telecaster and his Peavey. A good friend who's in a rock band that actually plays out about once a month plays guitar through a small Peavey combo, it doesn't sound quite as good as his Dual Showman but who wants to haul a Showman and 2-15s around when you're 52? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 Whew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Tom, You are so right about missing the gestures and body language of our fellow posters. You all would probably understand me if you could see the position I'm in right now...ouch! fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 fini---I know the position I wish I was in. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Lord...Fini...Tom... I now dont think I can sleep for the next three months without horrifying nightmares.... The vision is now burned into my retinas. Why am I sober right now? kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 c'mon, mobile, you must have known what you were getting into when you registered in this horny forum... fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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