Cornwall and 45 SET

[jcmjrt]

I'm thinking about my Cornwalls and trying them with SET...and particularly wondering about the 45. Is the Cornwall sensitive enough to drive to loud listening levels in a small room with a 45 SET? I'm reasonably certain that I could reach ear aching levels with a 300B but start wondering about the 2A3 and 45 being able to do that. I don't always listen loud but sometimes, I just need to be doused in sound.

[pauln]

With a 2A3 SET I would say definitely yes with the Cornwalls. With a 45 SET, I think the Cornwalls could be quite loud with some material, but SETs are not really intended to be real super loud. With big Klipsch Heritage you will certainly be able to drive a room with satisfying full sound level, but for the occasional attempt to raise a mini rock concert they may not be enough - depends on how loud you expect.

SETs, and tubes in general sound a lot louder than you would estimate based on their power ratings - they are able to provide dynamic peaks somewhat beyond their spec output without sounding strained.

If possible you might try to audition them before commiting - some SET makers offer a return policy.

Certainly there are some here that will assert SETs are inadequate for normal as well as loud reproduction. Before I got my LaScalas I used 2A3 SETs with Heresys and found them to be plenty loud for me.

[ttrhp]

I am very interested to see all of the response for this thread.I am a total all tube SET kind of a guy.currently I am using 300B amp and also 2A3 SET for my avantgarde horn and i believe it's a match made in heaven.I got into klipsch a few months back and thought these SET would be a perfect match for the high efficiency klipsch.boy,I was wrong.to my ear,it just sound terrible.I dont know what it is,but there just no bottom end at all,and NO.I dont listen to rap and I usually i listen to my music at lower volume level.I called a buddy of mine who is a long time music teacher for rice university and ask for advice.He told me that klipsch sound best with high-power SS amplifier.being an electrical engineer most of my life,I thought the guy was crazy to recomend a high power amp into an 104db efficiency horn.to make a long story short.I bought a high SS mcintosh to match with my klipsch ,and to my ear.it is the best combo that I ve experienced with klipsch,so I am keeping me SET for my uno horn and my 200W SS for my klipsch.

[Marvel]

ttrhp,

What Klipsch speakers are you driving? I have LaScalas, and the 2A3 amps I use are satifying, even in the bass, where the LS tend to be a little weak. I like them, but some want a lot more output. I've also used them with SS, but the preamp didn't like the SS amp very much, and I got even less bass. To be truthful, some amps just don't sound good with some speakers.

Bruce

[pauln]

The Avantgarde horns use a bass bin with a SS amp and direct radiator woofs for the low end, don't they? Which big Klipsch? Horn loaded bass? Maybe that's the difference... How did the midrange and high end compare...?

[ttrhp]

paul,

I have the klipsch la scala.the avantgarde horn sound different from the klipsch and have no problem with the bass due to it powered sub.My la scala sound great ,but whenever I am using my SET amplifier,the tweeter and mid just over power the sub..I notice that you are in the houston area.I am in tomball area and would love to invite you to come over and do a comparision between the two.

[jcmusic]

jcmjrt, A while back I ran my khorns with a 2A3 amp, and had no problem filling my room with all the music you could want. I now use a 300B amp same story, more musical more bottom end. If you can't control the bottom end, you are wasting your time.

I do not have any expeience with the 45 tube, but from what I understand you need to have a really good amp to bring out the tube's full potential.

Jay

[Erik Mandaville]

I've been using a 2A3 amp with Heresies with great results. I did have a pair of 2A3 amps here for repairs a couple of months ago that sounded a little withdrawn at first. I found the output secondary connections which couple the output stage to the speakers was miswired on one side, and it was in that channel things sounded weak. That correction made, things were fine.

I really enjoy using out single-ended amps, and they are outstanding for much of the music we listen to.

I have also had higher powered push-pull and solid-state amps here that I think have better control of those big woofers, and can also have appealing mid and high frequency characteristics.

I would say a good amp/design is needed regardless of what tube is used, and as canyonman mention, I think that's the case with the 45, too. I have heard and read instances where people have sometimes tried to draw parallels between the size of the output tube and its power abilities. The DHTs are larger than many other tubes used in output stages, although they are not nearly as efficient as a significant number of them. That's an important distinction to keep in mind when choosing an amp for the majority of the music one listens too (in my opinion) -- as well as of course the size of the room and preferred volume levels.

I have a pair of two monitors that sound incredible with some power behind them (30-100 watts, or so). However, I tried them with my Moth 2A3 and the match was not at all acceptable. Very bad, actually. Clipping distortion made itself very quickly know with these mid-80sdB/watt/meter 6.5" two ways. If we kept the volume, it wasn't too bad.

We listened to a pair of 45 monoblocks from Welborne Labs with Klipschorns, and the sound was superb, but it did seem to tread more lightly than som much higher powered PP 6L6, EL34, etc. amps we have used with the same speakers. BUT! this is not to say the single-ended 45s were not capable of good bass response. To say that would be completely wrong. Bass notes were a little less punchy, and maybe slightly elongated compared to other higher powered designs.

It's a question of trade-offs, I think. The majority of music we listen to is acoustic jazz and classical, and SETs are a beautiful match for those genres. They can also be great for heavy metal/rock, and so forth. I just find stronger bass from bigger (as in power) amps, which may be what one needs if one happens to need/want strong bass. For movies, there has been little else for me that's more exciting when the subwoofer erupts like a volcano (possibly in response to that same event taking place in the movie!).

It (can) be an enjoyable journey. The only thing that matters is what you find works best for you.

Erik

[JBryan]

"Is the Cornwall sensitive enough to drive to loud listening levels in a small room with a 45 SET?"

Though some folks report good results with even less efficient speakers than the CW, I didn't particularly care for the combo. At 1.5 watts, 45 tubes will sound great at lower volumes but at about 85-90dB, in an average room, say 15' x 15', they will begin to distort and the music will sound compressed. Rocking out may be a bit under-whelming - especially in the bass.

In my experience, 45 tubes become useful with a minimum 100dB-efficient drivers/speakers. The 2A3 tube is a bit more detailed than the 300b but the 300b has a "fuller" sound and more pronounced bottom-end that seemed to be a good fit with the CWs. There's always a compromise but in my opinion, the 300b is the better choice.

Have fun, Bryan

[NOSValves]

Yes you can easily reach "ear aching" levels with a 45 SET amp. It will be some where around 85dB[]

[Marvel]

As much as I love my 2A3 amps, I would probably use 45s with headphones. What do ya think Craig? Has anyone done that? []

[NOSValves]

Heck if I know! I was just kind of having a little fun........ I would imagine a 45 amp would be great with a nice set of head phones.

[mike stehr]

A push-pull directly heated 45 amp would be interesting to hear on Cornwalls....to me anyway. I think that would be almost 3 watts per side.

[Marvel]

I wasn't trying to drag Craig into an argument. I have wondered how the low powered amps might work for headphones.

Mike may have the better idea for the 45s, do a PP to get the power up a little bit more. Even I have trouble with the thought of 1.5 watts.

[Erik Mandaville]

Bruce:

" I have wondered how the low powered amps might work for headphones."

My Moth si2A3 is also a headphone amp, and it works extremely well for that. My concern with AC filaments would be possibly high level hum with headphones, but it would be possible to try if you would like to. The Moth uses regulated DC on both the driver output stage heaters, and is very quiet.

You could do this on the Moondogs, but it would involve som work. Headphones are tons of fun, though.

Erik

[Parrot]

You (Erik) certainly went into the deep with them (headphones).

[jt1stcav]

..."the 300b has a "fuller" sound and more pronounced bottom-end that seemed to be a good fit with the CWs. There's always a compromise but in my opinion, the 300b is the better choice."

My sentiments exactly![Y]

I think the 45 SET may work extremely well with Cornwalls as long as you have a powered subwoofer to handle the low end...just my opinion, natch.

[Marvel]

Hey Jim,

How long ago did you get carpet back in the house? Seems like the last big picture I saw, you still had the concrete floor.

Must help with reflections a lot.

Bruce

[jt1stcav]

Bruce, you remember when that carpet was ripped out after Hurricane Jeanne flooded my room back in September of '04...the concrete floor's still there; no new carpet has been put down since. That's an old pic taken earlier that year when I was still using my dad's Cornwalls with my then-new 300B amp.

With all the furnishings still in my li'l music room, even without the carpet I notice virtually no reflections of any kind (which I assume is a good thing).

[Marvel]

Yeah, I forgot that Chops has the Corns in his system, so this was probably an older pic. You're using the Triangles aren't you?