Cornwall and 45 SET

[Duke Spinner]

- Anyone with any knowledge of the human ear, knows that you are damaging your hearing by your "Pretty Loud" yardstick. If you are not deaf now, you will be soon! BTW - By your definition " Loud" and above "Loud" is no longer Music, It's just noise!

never mind

[Parrot]

As long as my cat, shown here playing with dried grass, is happy napping in the chair near my right Klipschorn, I think the volume is safe.

[jcmjrt]

Background music - you can hear someone talking to you if you're close to them.

"Normal" level - you can hear someone talking to you if they're really close, or they're shouting.

"Pretty Loud" - you can't hear anyone unless they're standing next to you shouting at you.

"Loud" - you can see someone's mouth moving, but you can't hear what they're saying.

"Really Loud" - You can't hear yourself shouting back "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

"Awsome, Dude!" - You don't notice someone slapping you on the back because it feels just like the kick drum.

By your definitions, I would have been listening at normal level. That's fine with me as this "normal" level is pretty awesome sound. There's an airiness about the music that wasn't there before.

BTW, my previous amps were MC-240's run as monoblocks (one refurb'd and one original and working good) ...so lots of power...and sounded good to me...still do...but definitely different. 45 is more musical.

I spent most of today with Janos Starker and Nina Simone. Wow!

[Cut-Throat]

Background music - you can hear someone talking to you if you're close to them.

"Normal" level - you can hear someone talking to you if they're really close, or they're shouting.

"Pretty Loud" - you can't hear anyone unless they're standing next to you shouting at you.

"Loud" - you can see someone's mouth moving, but you can't hear what they're saying.

"Really Loud" - You can't hear yourself shouting back "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

"Awsome, Dude!" - You don't notice someone slapping you on the back because it feels just like the kick drum.

By your definitions, I would have been listening at normal level. That's fine with me as this "normal" level is pretty awesome sound. There's an airiness about the music that wasn't there before.

BTW, my previous amps were MC-240's run as monoblocks (one refurb'd and one original and working good) ...so lots of power...and sounded good to me...still do...but definitely different. 45 is more musical.

I spent most of today with Janos Starker and Nina Simone. Wow!

I think you hit the nail on the head here. We're talking about two different things on these SET amp threads - Music and Noise!

[ben.]

Ray, I hope you're at least a little bit joking... If not, every moment that you're playing your system, you're doing permanent damage. Unless you listen to a LOT of background music.

Definitely different metrics! These discussions would be different if we all had an SPL meter - but surely less entertaining...

[Ray Garrison]

It was a little tongue in cheek, but I was trying to make a point... what I consider really loud, but fun, exciting music (example - playing the William Tell Overture and pretending I'm standing in front of the orchestra conducting, or playing Creep loud enough so the "Barr na narr, Barr na narr" chords that follow the first "...I wish I was special..." really hit you hard) is, to someone else, (Cut throat?) noise. Okay, fine. He thinks it's obnoxious, dangerous, non-musical noise played waaaaayyyyyyy too loud for any possible reason, I think it's cool. I doubt I'm gonna be happy with a flea watt DHSET amp, while he might never find the need for any more power. To each his own. That's why there are so many different kinds of speakers and so many different kinds of amps.

I also like Scotch, by the way. Johnny Walker Red. I'm sure there are people who would say Nobody needs to drink anything like that.

[ben.]

It was a little tongue in cheek, but I was trying to make a point... what I consider really loud, but fun, exciting music (example - playing the William Tell Overture and pretending I'm standing in front of the orchestra conducting, or playing Creep loud enough so the "Barr na narr, Barr na narr" chords that follow the first "...I wish I was special..." really hit you hard) is, to someone else, (Cut throat?) noise. Okay, fine. He thinks it's obnoxious, dangerous, non-musical noise played waaaaayyyyyyy too loud for any possible reason, I think it's cool. I doubt I'm gonna be happy with a flea watt DHSET amp, while he might never find the need for any more power. To each his own. That's why there are so many different kinds of speakers and so many different kinds of amps.

That's cool. I get that.

I also like Scotch, by the way. Johnny Walker Red. I'm sure there are people who would say Nobody needs to drink anything like that.

I guess - if they're out of Jameson...

[Cut-Throat]

I also like Scotch, by the way. Johnny Walker Red. I'm sure there are people who would say Nobody needs to drink anything like that.

I like Scotch also, but prefer the Single malts. Glenlivet is my Spey Favorite. And when I need a 'smoky' one I like Bowmore.

I only drink the Blends in a pinch (On a plane)

[Mike Lindsey]

After trying Macallan's 25 Year single malt I can never settle for anything less. Unfortunately, it's about $475 bottle.

[jcmjrt]

Bourbon - Booker's.

[richieb]

I am currently evaluating the Melody Valve i2a3 integrated pumping
out 18, 2a3 watts in DHT push pull. I am on my third week of listening
on both Belles and Cornwalls and this thing is nothing short of
spectacular. A tone monster it is. As deep and quick of bass as my Mc
2505 or Unison Research with a soundstage and clarity that blows them
in the weeds. Makes my VTL el84 triodes sound thin and shallow. Highs
that are crystal and float. Dead quite, no hum, no buzz. Play it so
loud that you can't hear others speak but it is not LOUD, instead it
saturates you in every tonal nuance. The music absolutely envelops you
so it seems you could take a bite of it. I think the 2a3 in push pull
with zero negative feedback has some merit, a 2a3 with BALLS. A
great bridge between the 45 and 300B and in push pull allows the best
of both worlds. And all this in the most beautiful piano black chassis
with top end internals. I think I likey. Rich

[Duke Spinner]

18 watts ..

more like it ....[]

[Parrot]

In the interview that BEC recently posted a pdf file of, Paul W. Klipsch mentioned that he used 30W amplifiers. Certainly no one was more aware of the specs of his speakers than he was. I wonder why he didn't use a 1.5, 3.5, 7, 12, or 14W amp?

[Ray Garrison]

Watt's with the blue shirt?

[Ray Garrison]

I was just thinking... whether you can be happy using a 45 SET with KHorns or Belles or La Scalas or whatever aside for a moment, aside from a handful of other speakers (Avantgarde, Lowthers, Edgarhorns, Carfrae, Beauhorns, some of the big Tannoys) are there any other speakers you could pair with them?

[Parrot]

Is that the same as him saying 20W or 30W was the minimum required? Sounds like he probably got a nice deal on some 30 watters and let it go at that. Again, I ask you specifically - - should we all use rusted coax for speaker wire because he did? If the answer is yes to that one, I'll go buy a 30W amp.

Definition for reference:

min·i·mum (mn-mm)

n. pl. min·i·mums or min·i·ma (-m)

1.

a. The least possible quantity or degree.

b. The lowest degree or amount reached or recorded; the lower limit of variation.

2. A lower limit permitted by law or other authority.

3. A sum of money set by a nightclub or restaurant as the least amount each patron must spend on food and drink.

4. Mathematics

a. The smallest number in a finite set of numbers.

b. A value of a function that is less than any other value of the function over a specific interval.

adj.

Of, consisting of, or representing the lowest possible amount or degree permissible or attainable.

PWK recommended 20W minimum. A 30W amp would fit that criterion. As far as lower power goes, he sure as heck wasn't about to recommend a diminutive amp that would clip the signal when customers played his loudspeakers loudly or even moderately but with loud peaks. I don't fault him for not making an exception for guys who run out of a room in pain if it gets up to 70dB. I'm sure he figured that those kinds of guys could turn the volume down. But if you turn up an amp that's already full out, it won't do anything more, it's already at its limit. I don't think there are that many guys who say This amp is for the girlie music, fine, and then when I want to play this bass-heavy piece, all I have to do is take the old amp out and put this other one in its place. Just give me a few minutes and I'll be all ready.

I think it's safe to say that PWK wasn't a wire guy. Lamp cord would do nicely, thank you. You don't need to go out to buy a 30W amp--you designed and are building 25W amps.

To make a computer analogy, you can run any given OS with less than the recommended amount of RAM, and you may be able to get by on most things. But savvy computer users will double or quadruple the recommended minimum because they don't want to get bogged down when they're in the middle of running a favorite application.

[ben.]

I so love analogies. Almost as much as Shop-Vacs.

[richieb]

Are we looking for the "right" amount of power or a presentation that's

appreciated. One can be had without the other. You are correct Mark, I

am down 2 to the "twenty watt club" but Parrot, how much difference in

db is 2 watts. Better get yer slide rule out. Sounds like some buy amps

by power rating over quality of build and sound. I don't play to

"concert levels" and really don't care to drive Belles to all of

my 18 watts, not in my listening area. And since playing at levels at

well less than 18 watts sounds so damn good, I'm content. This ain't no

race.

[Parrot]

Are we looking for the "right" amount of power or a presentation that's
appreciated. One can be had without the other. You are correct Mark, I
am down 2 to the "twenty watt club" but Parrot, how much difference in
db is 2 watts. Better get yer slide rule out. Sounds like some buy amps
by power rating over quality of build and sound. I don't play to
"concert levels" and really don't care to drive Belles to all of
my 18 watts, not in my listening area. And since playing at levels at
well less than 18 watts sounds so damn good, I'm content. This ain't no
race.

I wouldn't quibble over 2W. But you shouldn't fall into the false dichotomy perpetrated by certain people that you have a choice of 1) high quality with low power or 2) lesser quality with high power.

[smilin]

Yes you can easily reach "ear aching" levels with a 45 SET amp. It will be some where around 85dB[]

heh heh heh, [:^)]