Need your help-using RF 7 for studio monitor!

[BARRA BAZZ: The Genesis Part 1]

Dear friends,

as i told in my introducing thread im a musician working with RF 7 as the best Studio Monitor I ever heard.

However my wish is to demonstrate the RF 7 to some very well known musicians in germany and my dream would be that RF 7 will be taken in many studios for reference.

Of course if you do a thing by yourself - your enthusiasm has no frontiers

Yesterday i got the MP 3 version with 12 MB from our song "Signs of hope". We recorded that one at first because it was easy to play for us - and we recorded this with only 2 musicians, Hansi and me. Hansi is singing, playing keyboards and drums, i was playing all guitars (4) and the bass.

We wanted to create a new sound - a natural one - not these plastic sounds with much compressors and limiters you will find in the big rock productions today with constantly 0 db peak.

Our first problem was that with our 16 track machine the origin mixed with RF 7 had a never ending dynamic around by far over 120 db and that we wanted to record on CD - 16 bit CD format is limited at 90 db!

So we did some compromises ( the master is ballshaking) and made a 90 db 16 bit record. Dirk Jambor from truetracrec.de was helping us out to solve the problem with his ultra expensive Lavry stuff and his know how. Dirk was working for the greatest in business, even in rock like Doro, Faith no More, Slayer and so on but many Jazz and classic, too.

He is the man! And we are unendless thankful for his help.

Before that we made a on 6 MB reduced version for friends via e mail - but sounding by far not we way we want.

Now - thanx to Dirk - we have a 12 MB MP 3 version for our friends where you can feel and hear the character of the earthstanding sound we created with RF 7.

We took this song because of mixing 4 guitars - 2 different for rhythm- 2 different for solos-which also play two different melodies at the same time!!!- a bass playing another melody, drums and synths is a really hard harakiri job for the sound engineer!

The Martial Art is not to loose the transparence!

Our oppinion is that without the help of the glorious RF 7 it never would have been possible.

However, the job is finished and the MP 3 version is really a good one for MP 3, i think, but takes 12 MB place.

Now i need the help of you all.

We created a new sound which you surely will not await.

Our dream is that the people who listen feel that we played in a cellar, that the vocalist had the dust of cigarettes on his lips, that the guitar is really sounding woody and that much energy was in the air.

We think it do sound very live!

Before i get in contact with other musicians here i want to know your oppinion about the sound.

Next thing is that we are very hard experimenting with different musical styles and want to combine much things.

For example we start a little bit like Iron Maiden would do and fall after this in a Ghospel sound - change in 1 second to a Hard Rock thing - and then comes a Hammond with a keyboard solo like the old Eloy - break - guitar solo with different guitars and different melodies in the same time in my own way - break - power rock- break little bit Metal and a helicopter at the end:)

The song is about ourselves - and a thank you and tribute to god, who helped us out a lot with cool wonders but surely no religious thing.

I want to know from you all what you think about this hard mix between different musical styles - because our project will be the following - we want to make a progressive rock musical telling about the Genesis and in this musical we will work together with many other musicians and will mix dozens of styles.

Our wish is to create really a different sound from all things which are hyped - not to be a copy of someone.

I have never seen in a forum so many mind open and different people like here living in peace together - so i would ask you to bring me your personal input.

You only must send me your mail adress at headbanger777@onlinehome.de

and i will send you the 12 MB data package if your mailbox can eat.

My questions are:

1) What do you think about this new created sound?

(bass, highs, transparence)

2) How does it feel on/with your equipment?

3) What do you thnk about the mixing of the styles?

4) What do you think about the music?

5) What do you think about the voice?

6) Would you buy such music on CD if it comes out?

7) Ask your friends and family what they think about the thing.

Thanx for your help and honestly input!

Werner and Hans

[Duke Spinner]

I can't imagine using RF-7, as a monitor speaker....

there are much better choices, i am sure in other studio's there.....[:^)]

[Fish]

Well Duke.......maybe you could tell us what's a much better monitor for $12-1400 US?Please only include products made this century to keep it current.I have an article from sound and vision where the rf7 was compared to a $50,000 set of studio monitors.While it was not claimed to be as good or better it was compared favorably.

[rcarlton]

Werner and
Hans,

Really liked the MP3. I
hope it is not the final mix because to these American ears there are problems
with the lyrics. One line really stands out and sounds very Romper Roomish
(obscure reference to a 1950's and 60's childrens TV show): "Music is for you and
me!" The rest of the lyrics remind me of Stryper...an American Christian Heavy Metal band[+o(].

My questions are:

1) What do you think about this new created sound? (bass, highs,
transparence) Sounds great[8-|].
Took a couple of listens to let it sink in. Bass was very good, had my trouser
legs flapping. I didn't get a sense of a wide stage, the instruments seemed very
close together.

2) How does it
feel on/with your equipment? Rocks[<)].

3) What do you thnk about the mixing of the styles? I think it could benefit from a
wider stage (not sure if that is the right words).

4) What do you think about the music?
Reminded me of The Doors in the way it changed
pace, quiet, loud fast, etc. Change of style was cool[H] for the first couple of
times. For awhile it sounded like Black Sabbath. Only complaint is that
it may be a tad over done. Pull back a little bit,
simplify.

5) What do you think about the voice?
The chorus was good. Toward the end of the
song it reminded me of Joan Jett with the Yeah....Yeah...

Hans
voice.........sorry.....not my cup of tea. His voice seemed forced, not natural.
Couldn't understand the lyrics...."Sign of the bull?"

6) Would you buy such music on CD if it comes out? Not as it is. The concept is good, but too uneven.

7) Ask your friends and family what they think about the thing. Will
do.

[skonopa]

You only must send me your mail adress at headbanger777@onlinehome.de

and i will send you the 12 MB data package if your mailbox can eat.

I finally got around to listening to this myself. Like rcarlton above, I also listened to a couple of times. For the most part, I have to agree with much of what rcarlton said above as well. Some of the lyrics did come of sounding kinda cheesy to me - "romper-roomish" as rcarlton put it. It did remind me of Stryper as well.

My questions are:

1) What do you think about this new created sound?

(bass, highs, transparence)

I am assuming you are asking about the overall sound quality. The overall sound quality was quite good in my opinion. I was listening to this on RF-7s myself. The drums had a very clean sound to them, and the instruments was easy to pick out. The lyrics were pretty easy to understand. Thankfully, you said you are not going to resort to that "cheap plastic" sound and using dynamic compression, and it seems to show. It did sound like an actual performance with real, live humans playing and singing. I'll have to give it a grade of 'A' for this.

2) How does it feel on/with your equipment?

I am assuming you are asking how it sounds on my particular setup. As indicated above, I think it sounded excellent on my system (which also consists of RF-7s powered by a B&K amp and a Denon reciever acting as a pre/pro). The bass did sound tight and full on my system. The guitars came out nice and clean as well.

3) What do you thnk about the mixing of the styles?

That is one of the reasons why I've always loved listening to progressive metal, with all the changes of styles and so forth. If you can, try to listen to Beyond Twilight's For the love of Art and the Making. That goes from a very classical, symphonic sound to a straight up power metal type sound, complete with power chords and "harsh" lyrics. For your particular sample, I thought it was pretty cool how it goes from a "Black Sabbath" type sound to a pretty epic "Pipe Organ" sound about halfway though. I thought that was cool. I have disagree a little bit with rcarlton about it being "overdone". I don't think it was any worse than some of the other progressive type bands I've heard (such as Braindance as I am listening to right now). But than again, for somebody that may not be used to listening to a lot of progressive metal/rock, I can see how it may sound overdone (perhaps why progressive rock/metal is not that much populer - to many people see it too complex and overdone? - a comment I got once from somebody with regards to Zero Hour, who I think are awesome). However, that being said, rcarlton does have a valid opinion there.

4) What do you think about the music?

It took me a couple listens before I could fully appreciate it (than again, it was the same with Zero Hour and Prymary as well, two bands I really do like). It does have that kinda old-school sound that I don't hear to often in what I consider "progressive metal". As I mentioned above, I thought that pipe-organish type keyboard solo about halfway through was pretty cool.

5) What do you think about the voice?

Here, I definitly have to agree with rcarlton. I also thought the lead vocals came out sounding "forced" and "unnatural". It was like Hans is trying to hard to sing, but coming out flat. And as was already mentioned, I did thought some of the lyrics were a bit on the "cheesy" side, though. If I have to agree with the "overdone" part, it is in the lyrics department. The chorus was really good, though.

6) Would you buy such music on CD if it comes out?

Based on just that one sample, it would be a hard decision. At this point, the only reason I'd consider buying it because I don't mind supporting an up-an-coming band that has a lot of potential as yours does. I'd have to hear a bit more before I can truly say a definite "yes".

7) Ask your friends and family what they think about the thing.

I have a number of friends in the local power/prog metal scene here in the general Baltimore/D.C./Richmond area. With your permission, I'd like to send this to them, such as the members of a band called Odin's Court, which is also a progressive metal band, as well as a very good friends of mine.

Overall, to sum it up, I did like it. However, I do agree with rcarlton that it is a bit uneven in places and could a little work, especially the vocals and lyrics. Musically, I did enjoy it, but it could be cleaned up a little bit.

[rcarlton]

Steve,

You can call me Ron. We met in Hope. Couldn't get over how much you reminded me of my younger brother Phil. Not a recent picture of him, but close.

[Zen Traveler]

Hey Werner,

I have met both Steven and Ron--Their opinions can be trusted, but lock up your daughters! [H]

[Duke Spinner]

Well Duke.......maybe you could tell us what's a much better monitor for $12-1400 US?Please only include products made this century to keep it current.I have an article from sound and vision where the rf7 was compared to a $50,000 set of studio monitors.While it was not claimed to be as good or better it was compared favorably.

i don't think price is a factor with a commercial enterprise as recoding studio......

what is a factor, is a flat , neutral , detailed presentation, so the engineer may determine exactly how He want's it to sound ......

Sorry, no matter what you may have read, I don't consider Any home stereo speaker...

to have the requirement's of a true Studio Monitor.....a much over used term ....

my personal fav, probably due to the hundreds of hours i have using them ....

JBL 4430 ......

they pick up an amazing amount of detail that All my Klipsch speakers gloss over

[BARRA BAZZ: The Genesis Part 1]

Well Duke.......maybe you could tell us what's a much better monitor for $12-1400 US?Please only include products made this century to keep it current.I have an article from sound and vision where the rf7 was compared to a $50,000 set of studio monitors.While it was not claimed to be as good or better it was compared favorably.

i don't think price is a factor with a commercial enterprise as recoding studio......

what is a factor, is a flat , neutral , detailed presentation, so the engineer may determine exactly how He want's it to sound ......

Sorry, no matter what you may have read, I don't consider Any home stereo speaker...

to have the requirement's of a true Studio Monitor.....a much over used term ....

my personal fav, probably due to the hundreds of hours i have using them ....

JBL 4430 ......

they pick up an amazing amount of detail that All my Klipsch speakers gloss over

Hey Duke,

i know the JBL s and i can promise you its nearly impossible to get a good transparence with them. I changed in the old times to Tannoys DMT 15.

Im very surprised that in these days some people do work with JBL s in the studio - perhaps they are used to the JBL sound - i dont know.

I even had some Hifi speakers from JBL in the beginning of the 90 s - the LX 66 and the 5.000 TI - horrible - both were flying out of my house after a few weeks. The midrange was catastrophic and the highs harsh.

I bought them because of good tests and it was a big disappointing for me.

Later i readed that there were different versions with different quality on the market - was no good idea to buy cheap in this case...............

However the theme JBL is eaten for me, sorry Duke!

Cheers

Werner

[BARRA BAZZ: The Genesis Part 1]

Dear Ron, Steve and friends,

i thank you all so much for your commends.

Many of you did not post in this forum they posted to me private and many people wanted the song and give it an audition.

Thank you all for your time!

Some of you were sending mails that they want the song - but the mailer demon came back and told that they did not have enough space room in their mail box to eat 12 MB!

I really answered on every mail - but not every data transfer was working.

It was very interesting for me to read what people in the USA (complete other taste like in Europe) would think about the song.

For example nearly every listener from USA stated that he dont like Hansis voice!

And nearly all liked the keyboards , guitars, drums, melodies and sound very much.

Let me tell you more:

I sended the song to 200 friends from Europe .

Around 75% gave a feedback and now sit down on your chair and wonder:

1) Most of them stated that Hansi voice is the best of the whole music and that he is a great shouter with a very different and professionell voice.

2) Around a dozen people were not satisfied with the Keyboard solo in this song. They would like to hear a guitar solo instead of.

3) Everybody - without exception liked the sound, too.

4) Some had problems with the message and do hate reliegoius things in songs.

5) Nearly all of the people who gave a feedback answered that they would buy such a song.

What i clearly see is that people in Europe and USA do think different and the market will be different.

My first fear was that people would say: Fire this damned guitar player:)))))) But nobody was insulting with me Uff!

I know Hansi since around 30 years and personally have no problem with his shouting, we wrote surely some thousend songs together in a working period between 1981-1998.

Of course im used to his voice since earliest youth. We learned us to know in 1977.

Hansi has a classical schooling in singing and in choirs and was singing in many projects here and has an own Coverband (www.Ultralovers.de ) with which he gives concerts at the weekends with big success in clubs around Mannheim.

Here mostly the wifes do love his voice.

For me it is interesting to hear that people in USA would say he sounds forced, even Tarja Turunen (ex Nightwish) has a CD with his voice and the song Angel from 1986 and was not insulting.

To hear him live is always like listening an hurricane through the P.A. system:

But i will have a seriously talk about the critics and will give some more pressure behind the voice - we recorded it without any effects - or changes in the sound - absolutely flat - and surely people are not used to hear a rock song with non compressed vocals.

I bought an SPL Tube Gold Mike - now we will use the gold monster and give some throttle

You must know every band do use such toys -we tryed to avoid that - now we give it a try.

Im very happy that you are satisfied with the music - Steves oppinion was very urgent for me - he s listening the same things like me:)

Steve - of course give the Mix further to your friends and other bands and mail me about what they are thinking. For me is sure - the RF 7 is the best monitor i ever worked with!

We are at the beginning of the project - the song is only for promotion and will come on the B side of a single - not on the album.

As i told it was a personal thing in which we said thank you to GOD for making it possible that we will play with well known musicians in soon.

I personally stopped making music from 1998 until some weeks ago. Its the fault of Mat Sinner that im reanimated and this first song was composed in one afternoon.

We needed 2 days for to find the sounds, 1 day for recording the guitars, 1 day for the bass, 2 days for vocals and drums and Synths and 1 days for mixing- so it was a project of seven days.

We will take 9 months time to record the Album which will be much better , i hope!

For to create an optimal album its very urgent to hear the oppinions about other music lovers. For me is sure - we must do something better with the voice - an idea - i not had.

The lyrics- yes i know Stryper from the 80s! Do they still exist?

Steve - do you know Neal Morse (in the earlier days singer of Spock s Beard). I do love his music(much personal experience about Jesus) very much. The album Testimony was a revelation for me and the concert together with Mike Portnoy in dutchland was earthshaking.

I personally will not make a worship project - i will tell the story of the old testament of the bible - very great and epic stories with unbelievable adventures - sometimes more excited like Indiana Jones or the Mummy.

I have enough from writing about Sex, drugs and Rockn Roll, demon wars, Zombies and such things:) Another thing that could tempt me in the future would be to write a Science Fiction story in the way of a rock opera.

Cheers

Werner

[Duke Spinner]

Duke Spinner.

they pick up an amazing amount of detail that All my Klipsch speakers gloss over

Tannoy DMT

Pick yer poison...........

Good Point Source ... Terrible I.M. distortion

the LX 66 and the 5.000 TI - horrible -

Later i readed that there were different versions with different quality on the market - was no good idea to buy cheap in this case...............Werner

Those were cheap consumer market speakers

from an era , when JBL was, to use someone else's phrase ...being " Harmonized "

[skonopa]

But i will have a seriously talk about the critics and will give some more pressure behind the voice - we recorded it without any effects - or changes in the sound - absolutely flat - and surely people are not used to hear a rock song with non compressed vocals.

I bought an SPL Tube Gold Mike - now we will use the gold monster and give some throttle

First and foremost - please do not take anything I say as an insult! You asked for an honost opinion and it seems that I and a few others gave you one.

As I said above, I thought it was quite good from a musical point of view. In fact, I found the keyboard solo about halfway in to be really cool, and indeed something "different". Everybody and thier brother does guitar solos these days, so it was a nice change of pace to hear a keyboard solo, and the one featured in this particular piece was quite good in my opinion.

My criticism (note, I said "criticism", not "insult") of the vocals has nothing to do with it being compressed or not. I have numerous albums (Vox Tempus' In The Eye of Time is one that come immediatly to mind - an excellent album, by the way) that do not use compression, but I found I absolutly loved the vocals. I just did not care for the vocal style used in your particular example, in that they seemed to "harsh", "forced" and "unnatural". Like he is spending to much time yelling into the mic instead of singing it. It has nothing to do with his actual skill as a vocalist, but this first impression for me has not to impressed here.

As i told it was a personal thing in which we said thank you to GOD for making it possible that we will play with well known musicians in soon.

I personally stopped making music from 1998 until some weeks ago. Its the fault of Mat Sinner that im reanimated and this first song was composed in one afternoon.

We needed 2 days for to find the sounds, 1 day for recording the guitars, 1 day for the bass, 2 days for vocals and drums and Synths and 1 days for mixing- so it was a project of seven days.

We will take 9 months time to record the Album which will be much better , i hope!

For to create an optimal album its very urgent to hear the oppinions about other music lovers. For me is sure - we must do something better with the voice - an idea - i not had.

Okay, that explains some of the uneveness and the "rough edges". If you guys just threw that together in a span of one week, does not allow much time to polish it up a bit. I am willing to bet given a little more time to tweak it and polish it up, it'll be quite good. However, if you are trying for that "gritty" sound, that track does seem to capture it pretty good.

I'll have to admit, for something that was done in only a week, it is pretty damn impressive, though.

The lyrics- yes i know Stryper from the 80s! Do they still exist?

Steve - do you know Neal Morse (in the earlier days singer of Spock s Beard). I do love his music(much personal experience about Jesus) very much. The album Testimony was a revelation for me and the concert together with Mike Portnoy in dutchland was earthshaking.

I believe Stryper is still around. They have played a few shows very recently, as in within the past year or so. They actually recorded an album, Reborn, as recently as August of last year (2005). I actually liked Stryper, but thier 80's glam-rock style was getting old. They did try to change thier style with the Against The Law album, but tanked big time!

Oh yes, I do know of Neal Morse from Spock's Beard. In fact, just this past May, I've even seen Spock's Beard. Friggan awesome show it was!

I personally will not make a worship project - i will tell the story of the old testament of the bible - very great and epic stories with unbelievable adventures - sometimes more excited like Indiana Jones or the Mummy.

I have enough from writing about Sex, drugs and Rockn Roll, demon wars, Zombies and such things:) Another thing that could tempt me in the future would be to write a Science Fiction story in the way of a rock opera.

Cheers

Werner

I find nothing wrong with using religious topics/materials in the music. However, it can so easy to come off sounding to "preachy", which seems to be one of the criticisms leveled at your sample track.

Making an album about Genesis and the Old Testement would be awsome, especially if done correctly. For an example of a very intersting take (and somewhat pretty dark) on the whole Adam and Eve story, check out Virgin Steele's newest album, Visions of Eden. However, I just don't see the vocal style that you displayed in that sample track really fitting in very good with what you are trying to achieve. I would not mind hearing a vocal style more in line of Zero Hour's earlier work, such as that on thier Metamorphis album, which does use a bit less type of that sound that Hans was using in the sample track. It sounds really good in the context they are achieving on that album. It didn't sound forced, but still achieved that kinda of "gritty" sound you seemed to been looking for.

To re-answer your question way up at the beginning of this post, "Would I buy the album?", I'd have to wait until I actually hear a finished example of a track that will actually go on the album. If I understand what you are saying, the sample track that you sent out was more a "demo" to just solicit opinions and was not intended to actually go on the album, but maybe as a "bonus track" or some such. Correct me if I am wrong, but that is the impression that I am getting.

I certainly wish you luck and don't want to discourage you guys from producing this album. Given what I've heard so far, it does have promises, despite the criticism that I as well as others have given. To be honost, I am actually looking forward to see what else you guys can do.

[BARRA BAZZ: The Genesis Part 1]

Hey Steven,

of course i didnt understand your posting as insulting!

You understand perfect - this is a promotion song we made for:

-checking if the msuical stlye mixing is possible for us as musicians and satisfying for listeners

- creating a sound

- give god a tribute for making this project possible

- using it later for bonus track/B side of first single

-checking what people will think if they hear such a progressive thing with many soft keyboards combined with a hard guitar

- to give a picture of our vision to the musicians who have promised to come for guest playing of the very difficult parts - i do not can manage! (im no Malmsteen or Gerold Hirschler!)

- to test if there are differences in taste between different countries and to check up where the album/style will have a chance

- to check if we are right with using RF 7 for monitoring (nobody else does as far as im informed)

- to get input what we can make better

In germany we only got really worshipping for the Track (some hifi dealers do take as reference track!)- but i personally do think by far that there are some better ways to rock and that is only the beginning of a long journey through sound space.

So again - thanks your for helping and every other oppinion is welcome!

We will give our best !

Your Klipsch priest

Werner

[synthfreek]

Good studio monitors in that price range would be:

KRK V8 Series 2

Event ASP8-$1300

Mackie HR824-$1200

Event ASP6-$1100

Tannoy 6D-$1200

Dynaudio BM5A-$1000

ANY of these will be better than using just about ANY hi-fi speaker although I believe that Brian Williams of Lustmord using gigantic Dunlavy SC-IV's to monitor and he has laid down some of the most cutting-edge sounds ever recorded.

[DrWho]

Duke has a good point about "studio speakers" versus "home speakers". I

have no doubt that you can get things sounding freaken awesome on the

RF-7's, but how well does your mix translate? You should be referencing

your mix and not relying on the sound in the studio (in fact, it should

sound bad in the studio). Try listening to your recordings in your car

and every different kind of system you can get your hands on.

Second, are you trying to make money / get popular with this album, or

is it strictly art? I haven't listened to anything yet, but I get the

impression that you're trying to do both which usually yields mediocre

results. I've always lived by the ideal that "good art is complete

within itself" - it's not good to do things differently for the sake of

being different (because it loses it's impact once society changes and the difference no longer exists). But if the sound is in fact what you were aiming for,

then by no means let anyone change your painting.

[Fish]

I can't download it but if I could I'd give feedback,good,bad or suggestions,as skonopa did.That evaluation sounded very helpful.A guy come to a place he thought he may get an ear from people that have a pretty good one,and ask for an honest audition.Eh........after you hear it is probably best.

[BARRA BAZZ: The Genesis Part 1]

Dear friends,

now you can download the full version of our song without data reducing and 70 MB.

Its only for this weekend and for my friends and as a big thank you and tribute for your help!

http://www.musicfiles.homepage.t-online.de/Track1Lauter16bit.zip

Have fun and play it loud!

With love

Your Werner

[skonopa]

Second, are you trying to make money / get popular with this album, or

is it strictly art? I haven't listened to anything yet, but I get the

impression that you're trying to do both which usually yields mediocre

results. I've always lived by the ideal that "good art is complete

within itself" - it's not good to do things differently for the sake of

being different (because it loses it's impact once society changes and the difference no longer exists). But if the sound is in fact what you were aiming for,

then by no means let anyone change your painting.

I have to fully agree with the above.

The guy did ask for some opinions and I certainly give him mine, for the simple fact that I'd like him to produce a quality product.

I certainly don't want to discourage the guy from taking on this project, which does sound pretty ambitious. I hope he does it for the love of the art instead of finding away to make a quick buck (and we all know the results of "artists" producing albums simply for trying to get popular and make a buck - just turn on the radio to any current "Top-40" station - I rest my case). Seems Beyond Twilight pulled it off quite nicely with thier For the Love of Art and the Making album.

Anyway, regardless of what he used in the studio, the resulting track actually did sound quite good on my setup. I went and downloaded the full "uncompressed" version from that link he posted above. I'll have to give it another listen.

[BARRA BAZZ: The Genesis Part 1]

Second, are you trying to make money / get popular with this album, or is it strictly art? I haven't listened to anything yet, but I get the impression that you're trying to do both which usually yields mediocre results. I've always lived by the ideal that "good art is complete within itself" - it's not good to do things differently for the sake of being different (because it loses it's impact once society changes and the difference no longer exists). But if the sound is in fact what you were aiming for, then by no means let anyone change your painting.

I have to fully agree with the above.

The guy did ask for some opinions and I certainly give him mine, for the simple fact that I'd like him to produce a quality product.

I certainly don't want to discourage the guy from taking on this project, which does sound pretty ambitious. I hope he does it for the love of the art instead of finding away to make a quick buck (and we all know the results of "artists" producing albums simply for trying to get popular and make a buck - just turn on the radio to any current "Top-40" station - I rest my case). Seems Beyond Twilight pulled it off quite nicely with thier For the Love of Art and the Making album.

Anyway, regardless of what he used in the studio, the resulting track actually did sound quite good on my setup. I went and downloaded the full "uncompressed" version from that link he posted above. I'll have to give it another listen.

Hey Dr. Who and Steven,

no i not try to make money - this project do cost all my money and energy and its making a dream come true - to create a rock opera about the Genesis. But i need help and input of friends for to create the best possible thing.

Why?

Because if you are involved in a creating process like me - you are so full of enthusiasm that you are blind for mistakes. I have alived that in the past, i recorded my fiorst album in 1986 in Dupuis Studios Germany with Erotica, its name was "Creatures of steel".

In the last days i was listening to this album - 1986 by creating i loved it - today its a shame for me - so many mistakes! I was blind because of my enthusiasm in 1986. Too much reverb, too much gain, too much bass......its only sounded cool but not beiing cool.

Today i want to create an album which will be a pleasure in my ears to listen in 20 further years - a timeless Rock Album with a timeless style and timeless theme. I think the bible is timeless. 1986 my themes were Rockn Roll, Sex,more sex and more Rockn Roll - if you know what i mean.

Dr. Who, for me it will be the first time in my life that well known rock musicians will play with me together and give me a help on the coming album - i will not disappoint them or blame myself. They are my idols - if i wanted to sell albums i would tell the names of them - but this will be a surprise if the album comes out. This all do cost money which i invest because of making my personal dreams and wishes come true.

Steven, i bought the Paradise Album of Virgin Steele you was talking from - its another theme and about Lillith - this is fantasy and as far as i know something about Satans church and Adams first women. The music is not my personal taste- though i do love some Virgin Steel things from the eighties.. However - our theme is another.

Here is another link which will work this weekend for download:

http://www.musicfiles.homepage.t-online.de/Track1Lauter16bit.wav

I hope you all have fun.

Cheers

Werner

[Duke Spinner]

Very ..'80's vibe ......