ClaudeJ1 Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 OK, so between all the Xover posts, re-capping AA's, etc. reading about BEMA tweeters, etc. I just won ONE Baby Cheek (JBL 2404) and am bidding on ONE JBL 2405 Slot tweeter to test. may the best super tweeter win. Even though it's only about 3 Khz. more than my K-77's, and slightly lower effeiciency, the high end in my Chorus II's seem a lot crisper than my Khorns or La Scala. So I will probably start with BEC's capacitor replacements, to see if that has any impact (can't hurt), then I will try out the Baby Cheeks vs. the Slot JBL with a small capacitor (first order only) on both the JBL's with pink noise. Then I will have a single channel audition of the K-77 vs. both of the JBL's, via an ABC switch. At that point, I will decide which of the horses I should use to pull my upgrade wagon, times 3. At that point I will sell the loser JBL, and buy 2 more of the winners on the used market since the damn things are so expensive to start with and no longer manufactured (isn't that true of anything good??), where "new improved" isn't always the case. So, this may turn out to be an futile exercise, but I must satisfy the curiosity which was created by all the intelligent posts I have read during my short time here. Can anyone address my issues with similar experiences with details as to why it measured or sounded better? I suspect that having the higher frequencies represented has been nothing more than a slight EQ for my 52 year old ears, where I'm betting that the JBL Slot tweeter will win, but we shall see. Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 The 2405 units need to be xover,d above 8 k ....The 2404 can be used down to 5 K.....Even though both use the same diaphram...Tweeter horn loading design makes the difference between the two.....I prefer the baby cheeks on JBL or Beyma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 Claude- Maron's hearing rolls off at about 100dB/oct above 1kHz. Just thought you'd might like to know that. jw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 LOL! I bet he's good to 2kHz, which would be good, cuz that's about it for the midrange -- and nothing after that counts for much anyways. All of those tweeters will need some additional attenuation, you can't simply drop them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted December 11, 2006 Author Share Posted December 11, 2006 So what about a Beyma slot tweeter, anyone tried that? Seems like it's the same price new as a used JBL.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 I didnt know Beyma made a slot tweeter, I know Selenium did . Ill have to look on there site. .......Warren you wialley wascal......But both of my Choclier implants still work with a band width of 1k to 3k.....I can hear you weezing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted December 12, 2006 Author Share Posted December 12, 2006 Looking to, perhaps using the Fostex bullet supertweeter (100 or 106 db models), about $100 to $146 each respectively, crossed at 10k, they go to 35k. Yeah, I know I can't hear it but just in case, I'd like to extend the high end without touching the K77's. maybe a first order at 12-15k, even whatever way to aligna and blend with the K77. That's what it should almost be called an Ultra Tweeter. Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 I never liked the sound of 4 way ... Try a TAD ET 703 tweeter 5k to 45k .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted December 13, 2006 Author Share Posted December 13, 2006 I never liked the sound of 4 way ... Try a TAD ET 703 tweeter 5k to 45k .... I don't know you from Adam's off-ox, since I'm new here. The only thing others said about you was that your high frequency hearing was bad, which rather than help me make a decision, came off as some private banter and I'm not sure if it's true or not. If that's the case, how can you give tweeter advice? I'm just trying to understand. I can only base my reaction on what you write. It you don't like 4-way, you didn't say why. Based on your post I can't possibly take your recommendation seriously since the tweeter your recommended costs over $1,000, which quite frankly ticks me off a little. I'm sure it would do the same for your if the situation were reversed. All I'm trying to do is to improve the treble response of a K-77 to give the highs between 10-20 khz a little lift as economically as possible without cutting up my Khorns or LaScalas. Seems to me that the Foxtex super tweeters, at $100-145 ea. might work economically since they can sit on top of my horns. Seems like everyone here is pre-occupied with building bass horn cabinets, which is fine by me, but I can only thank people for offering useful suggestions, otherwise, silence is a perfectly acceptable alternative. I will seek my answers elsewhere. Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Claude, You might also consider replacing the K-77s with my CT125s. Lots of people have done that. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted December 13, 2006 Share Posted December 13, 2006 Yep what Bob said use the CT 125's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted December 14, 2006 Share Posted December 14, 2006 Claud......the banter between John Warren & i is a inside joke.......My hearing is fine....I use JBL 2404 or 2405 tweeters all the time. You dont have to take my advice. You can make your own mistakes...Its your dime not mine. But going 4 way when you dont have to & better alternatives are offered seems like a generous thing to do. Ive been down your road before & saw the error in effort spent....Some people can afford $1000 tweeters some cant...( I can) But in saying that you get what you pay for ( In quality) & not something on the cheep...You did ask for something in extended Highs....That is what i recommended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 OK, thanks for the clarification. I do appreciate it. So sticking with a 3-way system, would rather use a 2404 with a Klipschorn rather than a 2405? Same driver, better dispersion, better horn/bandwidth? I just bought a single 2404H used to try. Should I not bother with trying a single 2505? If so what will I find. Seems to me I'd be better with 2 more 2404's and git 'er done with along with new caps on the AA's. Claude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Definitely recap your AA's. Dump the 2405 and find more 2404's. If you run into trouble finding more 2404's, sell the one you have and buy Beyma CP-25s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 I would say the 2404H is a better unit than the 2405 for your application due to the lower crossover point o fthe 2404H which better matches your existing speaker set up. the 2040H sounds great, it is a simply one of the best tweeters out there. though it does not get up above 20k (some say up to 35k is better I cannot comment on that not having played aorund with anything that goes that high). I cannot imagine you being dissapointed with the 2404Hs. regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 The 2404 would be my pick......But if you dont want to invest in that kind of money.....Bob Crits Emmenence tweeters (CT 125) APT-50 with T35 horn is an excellent bargen. JBL claims 21.5k for the 2404 but the plot shows it down 10db at that point. I like the dispersion of this unit pretty even across the room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 I prefer the baby cheeks over the cat eyes. The baby cheeks have a wider dispertion pattern which helps widen the sweet spot. Also like the EV ST-350. Same design as the baby cheek JBL. The ST-350 also has wide dispertion while using the same diaphram as the T-35/K-77. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Maron- The 2404H are NLA (kinda like your hearing). jw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted December 15, 2006 Share Posted December 15, 2006 Warren......as you know i have large DHS Smith horns...Larger than the 2397 JBL units. These go back to 1951, Origionally owned by George Ashworth ,,,The scientist that worked with PWK on outer surrounds & woofer compliance. Paul had seen these large horns . At georges home,,, And commented favorably,,But Paul wanted some thing to fit in his tophat cabinet.....I have made smaller baby Smiths one third the size ( and one fourth the size) To use as tweeters, this time ive takin the babycheeks off the JBL 2404 & mounted them on the Smittys with good results. Do they sound better? NO, but the controlled dispersion pattern seems to help imaging.....Ill have to take both DHS horns down to St Louis & do polor plots in the anechoic chamber.....I can only get midnight hours....That is if Joe can arrange it for me. He,s lost interest. but still has the test equipment. I know the 2404 are NLA but Jammin Jersey get them in once in awhile, Popping in fresh vc & off you go...Its allways wise to keep extra vc around....Of course the new JBL 043be & other new JBL tweets are now coming into frutation....Since Im now retired & limited funds I now pass the glove onto you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markgod Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 OK, thanks for the clarification. I do appreciate it. So sticking with a 3-way system, would rather use a 2404 with a Klipschorn rather than a 2405? Same driver, better dispersion, better horn/bandwidth? I just bought a single 2404H used to try. Should I not bother with trying a single 2505? If so what will I find. Seems to me I'd be better with 2 more 2404's and git 'er done with along with new caps on the AA's. Claude Claude, I bought one JBL 2404H off e-bay ,thought I was going to use it in my K-horn but after talking to Dean W ,found out that I would have to do something with the cross overs and did not want to bother. If you are wanting another one let me know, I paid $118.50 plus shipping . I don't know if you can look up an old e-bay item with the item # ,but it was 160056608433.[You can look it up in advanced search ,with item #]. If your interested ,how does $100 plus shipping sound. Let me know. I will be going on a short vacation from 12/20 -12/31,so can contact me before or after . My phone # 315 7947-4053 , or give me yours I have free long distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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