Veritas Posted December 2, 2001 Share Posted December 2, 2001 Hello all, I have gained a treasure of information from this site in the last few weeks. I had previously owned a pair of Speakerlab K's which I had built from kits in 1974. I had decided to upgrade to a new style speaker 2 years ago to gain all the audiophile "things" that I was told I was missing, such as imaging, soundstage, and losing the honkyness of the horn speakers. After chasing the elusive things I had lost from the K's and gained with my new setup I have decided to build a new set of K's and improve them. Now the questions...I will purchase a used set of LaScalas and rob the components...second I am considering rotating the upper pod for the mid and tweeter approx 10 degrees further into the room to improve imaging. I will be using a much denser plywood, called appleply, which is 9 layers thick in 1/2 inch to improve strength and decrease resonance. I am planning to use the Speakerlab plans, although I also have the Klipsch plans to draw on as well. I will also dynamat and deaden the tweets & mid horn as learned on this site, and may install the ALK crossover at a later date...So Any additional ideas or comments??? Thanks for reading Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veritas Posted December 2, 2001 Author Share Posted December 2, 2001 P.S. I forgot one thing...the Speakerlab K had the tweeter mounted in a vertical position, which I would guess was designed to shorten the height of the upper pod...I think for my project this would also be the prefered mounting...the original Klipschorn, of course, had it mounted horizonally...what do the Klipsch experts think about this one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted December 3, 2001 Share Posted December 3, 2001 Ha, Harvard and Provda have stolen your handle. Seriously, though. Several of us here have built K Horns from the Speakerlab plans. I'm one. It wasn't easy and I made it worse. I was under the misconception that the K Horn used 3/4 inch ply while the Speakerlab used 1/2 inch, and I modified the Speakerlab plans to accomodate 3/4 inch. However, it seems that the K-Horn did indeed use 1/2 inch in most boards after all. So the Speakerlab plans are fairly accurate. Another area of controversy is whether the boards should best be multi-ply or MDF. It seems that Hope eventually went to MDF in at least some areas, citing costs. Some would say this was a typical sell out. Others would say it didn't matter. There is good natured debate. Conservatives go for the plywood, and thicker plywood. There are some other modifications to the design discussed. Some advocate stiffener in the "dog house" chamber. I put a back on them so that we're not relying on a seal against the wall. I've been looking at doing it again in a different way. I may never get around to it. The questions are: 1) Is the K-Horn the best corner horn design? 2) Is a more simplified design possible? There is an article in the AES magazine by Klipsch and Delgato regarding the Jubilee. A fair reading is that 1) the Jubilee is a better design and 2) is much more simple to build. I've worked out some drawings and would be happy to send them to you. On the other hand, we're pretty much on our own about drivers and crossovers. Yeah, I appreciate the issue of aiming the horns. Your approach may well be as good as anyone's. My read of the Speakerlab tweeter placement was that they want to save on plywood. That is why the tweeter was at the side. My brother in law has the Speakerlabs with a cheaper SL tweeter. I don't have an opinion without A B X testing. I followed the Hope design and put the tweeter sideways at the top. There is a spec sheet by EV on the T-35. Horizontal and vertical curves are not identical. But they're not too far different. As always, I invite others to chime in. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted December 6, 2001 Share Posted December 6, 2001 I found some 12" drivers the have the same mass corner and reactance null volume as the ones in the JAES article.About $50 each when I order a dozen.Thinking about building a pair this winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted December 6, 2001 Share Posted December 6, 2001 Gil- The LEE Catenoid, constructed as an exponential instead of hyperbolic, makes more sense to me than the bifrucated PWK design. I am working out the construction details (thanks again Bruce!). It is large for a 35Hz cut-off but not "much" larger than PWK's design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted November 5, 2002 Share Posted November 5, 2002 So, I just went to speakerlab's web site. I don't see any mention of then selling plans on building speakers, does anyone know off hand if they still sell them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.bob Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 speakerlab went chapter 11 about a decade ago. the company survived, but they no longer sell speaker kits or plans. they have just one store in seattle now. i think you can still get raw drivers and crossover parts, but they don't have near the selection they used to carry. mr. bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 Thanks mr bob! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale W Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 Plywood vs mdf : I've built several cabinets in the past with varied degree of success. The olny problem with plywood is "CORE VOIDS" some plywood like sub flooring is x-rayed to check for this. This is the main reason mdf has become popular in cabinet building. You would be really pissed if you spent hours on end building and finishing a cabinet olny to find out later that it has a vibration from a core void, wich would olny get worse as the vibrations worked at it.plywood is just as the name implys , layers of wood glued and pressed together.It is possible to get separation.Don't come unglued on me over this issue i'm just adding a little food for thought. lol ' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 Dale, that does seem to be a good point. I have one question about cabinets. Why do people use either plywood or MDF, what is wrong with solid wood like pine, fir, oak, etc.? Is it just the cost factor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 On my Klipschorn mod, i used 3/4 inch oak 7 ply! You might want to use this or birch ply, both very nice and both expensive! Regards Jim MOON you dont mention much about your reference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 MOON Solid wood tends to crack over the years! It dries out and cracks, as ply has the inner glue to keep the layers strong, also ply can take a warp, or bend better, as solid wood will not! Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 Gil Do you still have the speakerlab speakers, id like to see them! Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 ---------------- On 11/6/2002 3:16:13 PM Jim Cornell wrote: On my Klipschorn mod, i used 3/4 inch oak 7 ply! You might want to use this or birch ply, both very nice and both expensive! Regards Jim MOON you dont mention much about your reference! ---------------- What do you mean? Are you being sarcastic because of my sig, or serious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 ---------------- On 11/6/2002 3:19:14 PM Jim Cornell wrote: MOON Solid wood tends to crack over the years! It dries out and cracks, as ply has the inner glue to keep the layers strong, also ply can take a warp, or bend better, as solid wood will not! Jim ---------------- yes, I can see where that would be bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 MOON Nothing sarcastic at all, are you looking to build a separate 2 channel, or moving heritage to the fronts? I know, i have Klipschorns, and might seem like king sh!t, sorry! Didnt mean to do that! Take care Buddy Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 Ah no no no! If you were being sarcastic, I had figured you were just poking fun... Na man I was not upset at all, I just wanted to understand where you were coming from is all. Besides, if you have some heritage, you have bragging rights. As far as my Refs... Na, they would still power my HT. Any heritage would go in the house with our exising elite sanyo stereo. Now there is some sarcasm, calling that Sanyo elite. Then, if I decided to upgrade my HT receiver, I would stick my HK520 in the house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 If you build false corners for the horns, itll work, you could even build the corners onto the speaker itself! All youd need is a tri cut bottom, like the tops! Anyway, the cornwalls are sweet, i still miss them as of today! RF-7s are very nice also, so are the chorus, fortes, it goes on LOL! Keep posted on what heritage you get, ill be looking! Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 Yeah, the home made K-Horns and a Bigger Belle are still in my sister's garage in Dallas. I've promised myself that I'll donate them to my high school, in Nassau County. Triode Pete's neck of the woods. I may try to use the services of a moving company. To answer Moon's question about plywood versus planks. One issue is that planks are limited in size. Depends on the size of the tree, I suppose. They can be joined together to make a large piece. Still it is not particularly easy. I'm guessing a bit. But look at wood products prior to the perfection of plywood. The biggest picecs are probably table tops or doors. When there is room paneling there is a rails and stiles (sp) technique. Consider the front face of a K-Horn which is about 30 by 40 inches. You can't find a plank that big, and would have to build it up. Of course these days, it is easy to go to HD and find a 4 x 8 foot piece of plywood. Even the front and back of a Cornwall is too big for a single plank. I don't know when plywood was perfected. Maybe the beginning of the last century? A marvelous invention. If you can slice a number of veneers off a log at a uniform thickness, and have the good glue to sandwich them together, you wind up with large pieces with, arguably, better properties than planks joined together. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted November 6, 2002 Share Posted November 6, 2002 ---------------- On 11/6/2002 9:11:24 PM William F. Gil McDermott wrote: Yeah, the home made K-Horns and a Bigger Belle are still in my sister's garage in Dallas. I've promised myself that I'll donate them to my high school, in Nassau County. Triode Pete's neck of the woods. I may try to use the services of a moving company. Gil ---------------- Call it selfishness, but I have a better plan for your heritage. Donate them to me. Hell, if your just going to donate them, sell them to me for cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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