WTB Academy, KLFC-7, KV-4

[Roc Rinaldi]

plummer,

You missed your calling. You should be an audio consultant. ( I hope you are not just 14 years old or something!!)

Again thank you for the advice and interest in my situation. I am willing to use 1 or 2 Forte IIs for center. Whichever in best, if I can determine that.

Quartet and Academy both are kinda BIG for side surrounds. Is there anything smaller for the sides? Plus Academys, even one, is hard to find out there. What about RB-61s? They're somewhat smaller and I can get them new from Klipsch.

I know that there isn't much out there in 7.1 yet but I also own a 1080p TV and have yet to watch anything made in 1080p. I guess that I am just ahead of my time. I hope that you would agree that it is wiser to construct a 7.1 sound system rather than 5.1 or 6.1. Please comment on this. Someone at McIntosh told me that there is a whole lot of 7.1 in the works. Will 7.1 succeed or fizzle? I don't know, who knows for sure?

When you mention 6.1 are you thinking a center rear channel? If so, I cannot configure it because of room idiosyncrancies.

I am trusting that you really do know about Klipsch speakers and timbre balance. Please stay with this until I get it settled.

Dr. Who where are you. I need help on deciding 1 or 2 Forte IIs for center.

[theplummer]

No, I'm not 14, actually I'm50% more than double that number. I'm a plumber, hence the mispelled name. I've been fooling with my HT for about 15 years now, but don't know about a lot of the new technology. Years ago, I scoured Stereo Review magazines, but as everything else, once I've heard all the new talk and start re-hashing the same old stuff, I get bored. I have just within the last year, picked up a renewed interest in HT myself as I'm preparing to build a new house with a 30X57 Media room, Time for a crash course in the new technology.

My knowledge only stretches to what I know. I know Heresy II's, Chorus I's, Academy, a little Lascala, and My newly acquired Forte's. I'm still on the learning curve here, but I tried to just use common sense when thinking about your situation.

I also have no knowledge except from repeating what I've been told right here previously, that Heritage speakers do not mix well with ANY of the other Klipsch line, except the larger subwoofers. Unfortunately, Klipsch doesn't make a speaker that your going to be happy with. Look as the sensitivity specs for the RB-61 It's down compared to your other speakers. Maybe they'll be fine, I'm not sure. I have always been told that the timbre match is not good enough to cross Heritage to Referance series.

Mabye you could find the Academy's little brother, KV 2.2 used to fill that bill. I think there probably a closer timbre match, but again I'm not sure. They were made in about the same era as your forte II's. Like Dr. Who says, "It's all a compromise."

I'm not sure if 6.1 could be derived from 7.1 or if that's a whole new processor, I would think that could be selectable through the electronics. I'm not there yet, and yes 6.1 uses a single rear channel direcly behind the listening position.

Maybe some others can pick up where my knowledge falls short. Good luck.

[dmethe3]

I have a black KLF-C7 in perfect condition in the original box.Will sell for $325.00 plus shipping from N.H. You can email me at dmethe3@hotmail.com.

[SilverSport]

VERY nice Center speaker that is near an Academy and a nice price too boot!

Bill

[tigerwoodKhorns]

I have an OAK academy that is mint. I am about to put a fresh coat of urethane on it and it will be just like the day that it was sold new. Excellant match for a pair fo Fortes. I'll sell it for $500.

[DrWho]

lol - the term is comb-filtering and it dictates that you should use a single speaker for the center channel. You will be fine with two if you sit exactly in the center of the room, but if you want more than one person to enjoy it then you should just go with a single.

If height of the speaker is a concern, then you should be able to put it on its side. If that doesn't sound right, then you can build a custom motorboard and rotate the tweeter/squaker. The slightly off balanced highs and lows won't be a concern if you sit far enough back. Heck, you could even go with a normal vertical alignment and just build a cabinet that sits wider...so many options. Anyways, any method of single speaker center will sound better than a pair wired in parallel.

Also, it gives you a spare speaker to run a rear center for 6.1 surround.

[DrWho]

Here's an article on comb-filtering if you wanna get your feet wet:
http://www.prosoundweb.com/studyhall/jbl/lfpc/lfpc.php

Or you can just look at the pretty pics of the effect on the frequency response:

All the dips are the result of the different distance the sound has to travel from each speaker as you move off-axis. 1ms is roughly 1 foot.

[Roc Rinaldi]

Thank you Dr. Who. Your information is really on target for my needs. I'm lucky that I found informed people like you to help me.

Your knowledge appears good on this. I will go with just one Forte II for my center channel but most likely I will be buying two of them on eBay.

I started out thinking that I would spend as much as $900 for a center channel speaker so if I can obtain a pair of Forte IIs for say $660, then I am ahead of the game even if I closet the extra Forte II. Or I could try to sell it.

The height of the center Forte II is going to be OK. I will mount my TV just above it and set equipment racks on either side of the center Forte II. Low racks with two abreast equipment. The top of each rack will house equipment that will equal the height of the front Forte IIs + or - 1". It is going to look pretty good I think.

6.1 has come up a couple of times now. If I am configuring 7.1 what would be the advantage of having 6.1 (which, I assume includes a rear center channel)?

I believe that my A/V controller can send mono, stereo, 5.1 or 7.1 to my speakers and give me whichever speakers that I want on for each mode. Is this correct? I think McIntosh mentions this in their manuals. Do I also have to be concerned about 6.1? Won't the A/V take care of this mode also?

[Roc Rinaldi]

Thank you Dr. Who. Your information is really on target for my needs. I'm lucky that I found informed people like you to help me.

Your knowledge appears good on this. I will go with just one Forte II for my center channel but most likely I will be buying two of them on eBay.

I started out thinking that I would spend as much as $900 for a center channel speaker so if I can obtain a pair of Forte IIs for say $660, then I am ahead of the game even if I closet the extra Forte II. Or I could try to sell it.

The height of the center Forte II is going to be OK. I will mount my TV just above it and set equipment racks on either side of the center Forte II. Low racks with two abreast equipment. The top of each rack will house equipment that will equal the height of the front Forte IIs + or - 1". It is going to look pretty good I think.

6.1 has come up a couple of times now. If I am configuring 7.1 what would be the advantage of having 6.1 (which, I assume includes a rear center channel)?

I believe that my A/V controller can send mono, stereo, 5.1 or 7.1 to my speakers and give me whichever speakers that I want on for each mode. Is this correct? I think McIntosh mentions this in their manuals. Do I also have to be concerned about 6.1? Won't the A/V take care of this mode also?

[bdbaba]

Hey Roc,

Great choice to go with three fortes across the front. Here is a pic of my front three original fortes. They all have been "Popbumpered" with Chris Munson's X'overs--see other pic. I highly recommend them.

Nothing too fancy with my setup. The wall behind is my screen--painted with a bunch of coats of Behr ultra white. 118" diagonal 16 x 9 image--144" diagonal with the widest cinema scope films. I highly recommend a PJ as well if you have the wall space. Nothing like a big picture.

Ebay is a great place to look for fortes, but also keep your eyes open on audiogon.com as well. They do come up there, and many times at good prices. Maybe someone on the forum will want to split a pair with you--I split mine with Chris.

Good luck.

J.

[bdbaba]

The X-overs...They are pretty easy to attach--if I can do it, anyone can!

[DrWho]

The height of the center Forte II is going to be OK. I will mount my TV just above it and set equipment racks on either side of the center Forte II. Low racks with two abreast equipment. The top of each rack will house equipment that will equal the height of the front Forte IIs + or - 1". It is going to look pretty good I think.

You're probably already aware of the riser, but if need be you can always lower them a few inches by taking off the bottom riser panel things. I believe it's just a couple of screws? It's been a while since I've looked - and I have Chorus II's so it might be a bit different.

6.1 has come up a couple of times now. If I am configuring 7.1 what would be the advantage of having 6.1 (which, I assume includes a rear center channel)?

I believe that my A/V controller can send mono, stereo, 5.1 or 7.1 to my speakers and give me whichever speakers that I want on for each mode. Is this correct? I think McIntosh mentions this in their manuals. Do I also have to be concerned about 6.1? Won't the A/V take care of this mode also?

Your receiver will correctly handle the various speaker modes and distribute the sound accordingly.

As far as 6.1 - it's just a convenient thing to try right now since you'll have the extra speaker sitting around. If the layout of the room isn't condusive, then don't worry about it. For the longterm I would also go with 7.1. What are your plans for the future rear surrounds?

[Roc Rinaldi]

I have 2 KG-4s sitting on end tables for my rear L & R. How do you think they will sound with 3 Forte IIs in front and yet to be named Klipsch models for my side surrounds?

The whole set-up to be powered by a new 7 channel McIntosh amp. with 200wpc @ .005THD.

I currently have a Velodyne 130w 12" sub but I am pretty sure I am going to get one of Dr. HSUs turbo 500w subs for $999 and add it to the Velodyne or if that is too much then I guess I will sell the Velodyne.

My main interest is in stereo music, RnR and country played very loud. I rarely watch regular movies but with a high def. TV I figured I needed to step up to 7.1. Anyway, it will certainly add more sound for my music and perhaps future high def. DVD concert movies.

[Roc Rinaldi]

Hi J.,

Thank you for your interest and help.

I'm not familiar with the term "popbumpbered". What does it mean?

How would I use Chris Munson's X'overs in my system? Where do they fit in and what benefit do they provide?

[bdbaba]

Aloha Roc,

"Popbumper" is Chris Munson's moniker on the boards--I assume it has to do with the fact that he is into building pinball machines. His X-overs take the place of the original stock X-overs. On my original Fortes, they improved the tightness and amount of bass I hear in y system. I assume they would do the same for the Forte 2s. I have never heard the 2s, although I would like too. If you give Chris a hooar, he will tell you much more about them then I can. Many others here have bought X-overs from him or have had him build custom boxes and the like.

There are quite a few pairs of Forte 2s on ebay right now. I have not seen any on audiogon lately. Have you checked craigslist.org in your surrounding areas?

Cheers,

J.

[SilverSport]

...sometimes called "K-Stack"...I second Chris Munson's (popbumper) upgrade...famous for the Academy center...in addition...clears up the sound for voice...HIGH QUALITY build...not the cheapest but the quality shows...and you can hear it...my Academy has been "popbumpered!"

Bill

[Roc Rinaldi]

J.

Thanks for the info. I am not much of a computer person so bear with me.

My thinking on this project continues to evolve. Here is the latest. I am definitely going to add a third FORTE II as my center. Now I am extending that thought to the side surrounds. Why not add two more FORTE IIs for the sides? No speaker matching problems if I do and my new McIntosh amp has the power to drive them all (200wpc X 7)

God, I don't know if I want to get into changing the X-overs. I would say that FORTE IIs are bass light and could use more bass. I am going to add a new Dr. HSU 500w HO turbo sub to supplement my existing Velodyne 12" 130w sub. I will set them side by side. Then I will see if I am still bass-poor. If I am then I will consider the popbumper X-overs.

I do think you would be impressed with the sound of the FORTE IIs. They are so clear and somewhat "in your face". I live in Baltimore, MD if you would like to hear them.

Please keep me in mind if you discover any FORTE IIs for sale that meet my criteria. I am looking for at least two and maybe four FORTE IIs in walnut (darked wood) or less desireable, black or oak (which I would have to paint black). I will check craigslist.org and audiogon.com.

Now about my rear I mean rears. I have two KG-4s for rears. Myplan is to use them and see how they sound with the other speakers. If "no go" then I guess I will be looking for yet another set of FORTE IIs. Again no speaker matching problems if I do use more FORTE IIs.

Well, what do you think of all this? Please advise.

[garymd]

If you think your Forte's are "bass light," then something is either wrong with your setup or you have some pretty high (low?) expectations.

BTW - Crossovers are the cheapest and easiest way to improve the performance of your system. Don't be afraid to swap them out just because you've never done it. It takes about 5 minutes per speaker if you don't have to solder.

[popbumper]

Roc:

As Gary suggested, the crossovers are quite easy to swap out - if you can use a screwdriver (and anyone can), it's a snap. The crossovers are completely wired, color-coded, and come with install instructions. Hardest part? Bypassing the original crossover - which you leave in the cabinet anyway.

Your comment on "bass light" is a concern - both Forte I and II (and I have NOT heard the II, but have five Forte I's) are said to have a wealth of bass, both via reports of owners AND reviews in literature. ASre your drivers intact? Is there any tearing in the cone or separation of the surround? Are the cabinets properly sealed?

Interestingly, prior to developing the K-stack I was one of those "doubting Thomas's" who thought improved networks would not make a difference. Thanks to encouragement by Dean G and others, I found it NOT to be true; better components allow better sound. The Forte familie(s) are in no way "factory slouches" - but they CAN sound better with a small investment that has a big payback.

Chris

[Roc Rinaldi]

Thanks to both Gary & Chris. Your comments and time are really appreciated.

Uh O....my plan calls to add three more FORTE IIs (center & side surrounds) to the two that I already have. So I guess I would need 5 X-overs. How much are they? What is involved in bypassing the original crossovers? .....and what about my 2 rear KG-4s? Do you think they also need X-overs? Would the KG-4 X-overs be different ones? How much do they cost? Do I get them from you? Any warranty involved?

All I can tell you about FORTE II "bass light" is that I listen to such nonsense as Rolling Stones, Led Zeppilin, AC/DC ad nauseum. (sic) My room is 22' X 24' and slightly irregular shaped. Now here might be where the problem is. I started with Klipschs by buying 2 KG-4s as my stereo speakers. Well, of course, I loved the sound so much that a couple of years later I added 2 FORTE IIs to be my main stereo speakers and moved the KG-4s to the rear set on end tables. Since, at the time, I was strictly a stereo nut, I wired the front left and the rear left speakers in parallel giving me 3.something ohms. (FORTE II = 8ohms; KG-4 = 6ohms) I did the same for the right channel. All 4 speakers are sitting on the long walls in the room. They are all about 4-6" away from the wall angled toward the center of the room in general. I did worry about intersection points so I made sure that the front and rear speakers were aimed differently so that the front two intersected at a different point than the rear ones. At very loud volumes as I walk around the room it sounds pretty good. My Velodyne sub is 12" 130w sitting in a corner. When I turn the sub off the bass really drops off. So much so that I feel a real loss and must have the sub on. My front speakers are about 13' apart in the center of the 24' wall with the sub in one of the corners.

I guess I've introduced a few new factors that might need to be thought about relative to why I don't seem to get much bass from just the FORTE IIs haven't I?

Chris & Gary, please advise.