meagain Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 I'm very sorry, but I can't post a live link.... I'm still sketchy on where the woofer ends and squawker starts, then morphs to tweeter.... Can someone please tell me at what hz on this graph these transitions take place for an AA crossover? And, would anyone know the same for an ak-3? Thanks. http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/storage/4/728635/DEQ%20taps%20reverse%20on%20left.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Roughly 400 and 6000, regardless of the network. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 22, 2007 Author Share Posted January 22, 2007 Excellent! I was concerned a piece of my issue was the upper squawk too, but I started eq'ing down around 5000-5500-ish so it's close enough to 6k to allow me to fully blame the tweeters exclusively. This is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 I don't know about the AK-3, but the Type AA is about 380 and 4700 Hz. The Squawker is high-pass only, so if it had any HF output, like the 9k bounce, you might hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 22, 2007 Author Share Posted January 22, 2007 Dean - What does pd-5vh mean? Looks like I wouldn't want a type A if it climbs up faster there cuz my issues land squarely right at 6000hz. Wouldn't want any more there. I think I'm going to switch an ak-3 khorn with an AA for proper placement, then give a simple a/b listen today. So far, the ak-3 is drastically tamer in that hz range. Which is why I asked cuz I thought maybe the ak-3 crossed over at different points from the AA and was more of a different breed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 AL-3/AK-3 trace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 ^BUMP Sorry that this thread was "broken", the problem has now been resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 22, 2007 Author Share Posted January 22, 2007 I'm not feeling any AK-3 love over here. I'm now personally convinced ALL Klipsch with a few years on them need some semblance of crossover work. (unless my speakers are broken somehow).. What is the purpose of Klipsch soldering everything with these AK-3 types? I'm very annoyed with that right now. (Edit: How come all the charts seem to go downhill in the tweeter area? Is that normal?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Interesting that the AK-3 falls so quickly as the frequency rises. It'sdone because most people like it in most rooms. I'd guess thatmost people's rooms are walled with sheetrock or paneling that ishighly reflective to HF. The Type A tweeter section allowstoo much low frequency energy to the tweeter for common use, esp. rockmusic, making it vulnerable to failure. The Type AA is better anda classic 3rd order Butterworth might suit you bettter still, but mightbe too hot. The K-77-M is a 105 db tweeter. That 1 or 2 dBis easily noticed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 22, 2007 Author Share Posted January 22, 2007 Dean - Do you happen to have an AA chart just like the grey AK-3 one above? John - I'm EQ-ing down my AA's in the area of 6k of my k77m as much as 6db. Of all the Klipsch k-77's I have around here, it's the only one I need to do this to as if I don't, we find it unlistenable. Unless at low volumes. What is a Butterworth? Maybe I shouldn't know. So the AA tweeter has a hotter tweeter than the AK-3? Is that right? I did get a remarkable imageing out of these ak-3s last night despite being placed poorly. It was VERY strong. I liked that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Type AA and A shown on the same trace. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 22, 2007 Author Share Posted January 22, 2007 What I don't understand is when one shoves a mic up to one speaker for a noise test - why don't those resulting charts show the same-ish dips/peaks? How are all these charts created? Just the drivers are tested somehow? Not the resulting sound from driver and horn - right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Dean - Do you happen to have an AA chart just like the grey AK-3 one above? John - I'm EQ-ing down my AA's in the area of 6k of my k77m as much as 6db. Of all the Klipsch k-77's I have around here, it's the only one I need to do this to as if I don't, we find it unlistenable. Unless at low volumes. That's weird, you should change that driver(s). What is a Butterworth? Maybe I shouldn't know. Stephen Butterworth was an electrical engineer that developed the equations for a set of maximally flat filters (no ripples). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterworth_filter So the AA tweeter has a hotter tweeter than the AK-3? Is that right? I did get a remarkable imageing out of these ak-3s last night despite being placed poorly. It was VERY strong. I liked that. It would appear so from the response graph published above. However, ALL of the K-77s are 105 dB drivers. The Type AA is so lossy that it drops the output of the tweeter about 3 dB Avg. making up for the tweeter being a touch hotter than the rest of the system. The difference is very obvious when I go listen to my brother's La Scalas with DHA2 networks, or mine with ALK networks. The tweeter just jumps at me. It looks like the Type AK-3 tweeter circuit is worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted January 23, 2007 Author Share Posted January 23, 2007 John - Which tweeter jumps at you? The DHA2 or ALK? It seems looking at Bob's charts - the AK-3 is higher than the AA overall, but the AA comes in sooner and has a bit of a bump that chills out a bit. I keep thinking I'm not seeing in charts what I hear here. I sure am frustrated that I can't easily play around between the two. I mean, it's not just the crossovers that are soldered on the ak-3, the darned thing seems to have clamps on the drivers that seem soldered as well. I initially thought they were mere push pins but unless I'm seeing corrosion of some freeky type, those seem locked in. Boy does that tick me off cuz I could learn so much from this situation. I fear I'm going to be asking how to clip wires or desolder? really quick here. How else can owners of these types test or fix things? I'm very surprised Klipsch did this in a speaker that clearly can't be tossed in a car and taken for repair. Boooo! Or am I missing something here? Cuz I just don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 The crossover points for A and AA are hard to define exaclty because they use 6dB slopes. Most papers I've seen don't even try to do the calculations for crossover points until the order of the network is third order (12dB slopes). Keep in mind that PWK listed frequency response fourth in his list of things a speaker should do well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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