Need Me Some Cello, Maybe some Pipe Organ, and other sundries!

[LarryC]

We have just a smattering of classical here. I LOVE classical music and always wanted to get into it more but everytime I do, I find it ridiculously complicated and end up backing off cuz I never know what to get.

Search 2-channel on "Classical" and wander through some of the threads including those started by Dubai 2000. One of my favorites was Help with Classical Music choices, started by Boomac 3 years ago. I think he's become quite knowledgeable since, and has a nice collection. That thread also describes the program that Gary and I undertook, and I think he's also become much more knowledgeable and confident in the classical repertoire.

We've also hit a few concerts at the local concert hall, Strathmore, sitting right over the side of the stage where we get a great panoramic view of the instruments as they play, a very valuable experience IMO. Over 12 forum members and acquaintances went to a dandy concert last October to hear and see Gershwin's American in Paris and Berlioz's Symphonie Fanstastique. I may be ginning up another one of those for forum buddies this fall!

Larry

[meagain]

OK, I have to go back to baby steps here.... Cello, Organ.

I'm getting the one in the first link at the top of this page (page 2).... Starker Plays Kodaly (per Mr. Parrot on that Cello thread)..... The Pomp & Pipes CD for kicks.....

Now which of the Amazon's zillions of Elgar/Dupre offerings should I get to round this out? I'm getting overwhelmed so I'm looking for someone to just tell me what to buy with that one.

[Parrot]

I recommend that you also consider my music guru (and only 15 mins away) Mark's picks. He started a webpage recently with his basic orchestral repertory suggestions.

http://home.earthlink.net/~m9a9r9k/

He's got them broken down into major periods. So for St.-Saens, for example, you'd find him under the Romantic category, and Mark's recommendations are

Saint-Saëns,
Charles Camille

Symphony No. 3 in c minor, "Organ"
First
Choice: Charles Dutoit/OSM (Decca)
Close Second: James Levine/BPO (DG)
Historical Choice: Paul Paray/DSO (Mercury)

SACD Choice: Charles Munch/BSO (RCA)
Connoisseur's Choice: Christoph Eschenbach/Bamberg SO (Eurodisc)
To Be Avoided:
Arturo Toscanini/NBCSO (RCA) (The Toscanini performance is vital, but the cheesy electric organ just ruins it for me.)
To
Be Avoided: Herbert von Karajan/BPO (DG) (Karajan's recording is a bombastic snoozefest.)

To Be Avoided: Leonard Bernstein/NYP (CBS) (Bernstein's is like Karajan's, only moreso.)

[LarryC]

Ugh, CD companies' recycling of old recordings gets confusing. While this single-CD album is inexpensive at only $9 -- http://www.amazon.com/Elgar-Concerto-Pictures-Cockaigne-Overture/dp/B0002VEQGG/ref=sr_1_1/102-7447194-1801748?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1173467904&sr=8-1 -- this one -- http://www.amazon.com/Jacqueline-Pre-Favourite-Boccherini-Saint-Saens/dp/B000002S1F/ref=sr_1_5/102-7447194-1801748?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1173467904&sr=8-5 -- is very well priced at $18 for a 3-CD album. It has great selections: both Haydn cello concertos, really beautiful little things, and the Saint-Saens and Dvorak concertos as well as the Elgar. The Amazon.com reviews are worth reading, as usual.

Not to be ignored is the DVD of Du Pre playing the Elgar with her husband, Daniel Barenboim conducting, where you can see her play. http://www.amazon.com/Jacqueline-Pre-Elgar-Cello-Concerto/dp/630206077X/ref=sr_1_2/102-7447194-1801748?ie=UTF8&s=video&qid=1173467904&sr=8-2.

Larry

[meagain]

OMG - Do you realize how many No. 3 'organ' offerings there are on Amazon?

15 min. away.... from me? MarkBK? If so, I've been wondering where the heck he is. Your link doesn't work.

I'm overwhelmed and am just going to order what I have for today cuz I lost 1/2 a day already. Thanks much everyone!

[meagain]

Larry - OK, I've got that 2nd link in my cart.

Last call?

[Parrot]

Mark's link should be okay now. It had an extra space at the end.

No, he's not 15 mins away from you. He's my neighbor!

[meagain]

OK Thanks. I saved the link for the next order. I'll stick with what I have for today then come back to this thread when I have more time. It's 50 degrees here! Gotta get to work. It's free shipping so there's no real need to make a big one-time order.

Thanks guys!

[Mike Lindsey]

Don't forget to get the Scheherazade on your next order... I have this one on vinyl and it's excellent!

http://www.amazon.com/Rimsky-Korsakov-Scheherazade-orchestra-Stravinsky-Nightingale/dp/B000003FWQ/ref=pd_bbs_4/103-1895871-6381446?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1173459461&sr=8-4

[Mallette]

Can't recall whether you have a TT or not, but one of the best options for the Franck 3rd is the E. Power Biggs LP. Better pressings have a solid 32 foot tone I first heard in PWK's lab a long time ago. He really like this as a demo piece.

Also, the CD Michael Murray at the organ of St. John's has a marvelous performance of the Franck organ chorale No. 2 in A minor that has the best example of what I call "quiet bass" I know of. There is a point about 2/3 thru where you get this wonderful 32 foot stop not shaking the whole world with thunder, but displaying that marvelous ability of Klipsch efficiency and accuracy when called upon to speak without overwhelming. A wonderful moment! Any old woofer with a few hundred watts behind it can mush, mush, mush, but only Klipsch does this well. We rarely speak of definition and transparency in bass as few recordings contain it and even fewer systems can deliver it.

Dave

[sheltie dave]

Lisa I'd also check out some of the Telarc classical recordings, as they are of the "take dynamic range and stellar recording" to the Nth degree bent. Some of them leave me going ahhh, a miss, but a few hit a home run. Track down Prokofiev's Lt. Kije Choral at telarc.com(I think.) Not cello or organ, but Klipsch shines on this recording!

[meagain]

Awesome - I will check this all out.

Also, I often wish we all had the same test type CD, perhaps like that review site (can't remember off the type of my head the name...) has. Some amazing recording that we'd all have. Sort of like on AVSforum with their.... "this scene from Fifth Element" stuff.

[LarryC]

...Michael Murray at the organ of St. John's has a marvelous performance of the Franck organ chorale No. 2 in A minor that has the best example of what I call "quiet bass" I know of. There is a point about 2/3 thru where you get this wonderful 32 foot stop not shaking the whole world with thunder, but displaying that marvelous ability of Klipsch efficiency and accuracy when called upon to speak without overwhelming.

Dave, do you mean 32' or 16'? If I recall correctly, the bottom C in a 16' rank is 32 Hz, while a 32' rank descends all the way to 16 Hz. That's actually my little mnemonic for remembering which pipe length produces what: 16 = 32 and 32 = 16.

There are times when I literally feel that I'm hearing tones below 32 from my K-horns, which was why I asked -- do you think so, too? One example for me is the Munch/Boston Symphony recording of the Saint-Saens third symphony, at a point in the slow movement where a really DEEP organ note comes in. The score at that point says "32 pieds" (32 feet), which would mean a 17-Hz D-flat. Since the bass bin should not go that low unless those notes are super-boosted but the note was probably played at the recording, maybe we're hearing distorted harmonics. What'dya think?

[Mallette]

Perhaps some of those who've studied the curves can correct or elucidate here, but...

Definitely a 32' stop, and your nemmonic is correct. I really cannot recall the rolloff rate of 'horns at the moment and am too tired to look it up. but the short is that you certainly get response from them below 32hz, it just rolls off gradually very much like your hearing...but your body keeps feeling. That's why I call it "quiet" bass. There is a reason why some organs have even 64' stops which are largely sub-audible but have impact nonetheless. I recall "Sensesurround," a Hollywood gimmick in the 70's. The most impressive release was "Earthquake." I THINK the frequencies were around 12hz from HUGE subs moved around with the film. I can tell you this: Even with my understanding of the technology it scared me to death and I looked up to ensure the building was not collapsing on me. My guess is that these were pure sine waves as it would be pointless to use "sound" since we can't hear that low anyway...but we can darn sure sense it.

To answer your question, it is my belief that the 'horn is capable of responding at that level at least as well as you are capable of hearing it. Actually, I did take a look at my Klipsch lit and only could find one impedance curve that indicated some response at 20hz, but couldn't determine how much below 0db it was at that point. In doing this, I found my old Rectinlinear III spec sheet that claimed to be only 4db down at 20hz.

Dave

[ben.]

I can't offer any clarification on what the speaker can do below 20Hz, but I wanted to chime in regarding the harmonics. That 34Hz first harmonic (of the 17Hz D-flat) needn't be distortion, though I can imagine that if you boosted with enough EQ to get more sub bass, you'd have a lot more harmonic distortion down there. That harmonic (and many others) is part of the natural sound of the instrument. It's only distortion if it's added by the recording or playback process.

I saw some analysis of typical electric bass sounds (taken direct from the instrument - not a miced speaker) and the analysis showed that there was more than twice as much first harmonic as fundamental on the lower notes. The type of string used greatly influences this - I use flat wounds on my 4 string and there's quite a bit more fundamental than with the roundwounds I used to use on that bass.

I'm interested to hear from someone more technically informed about how a K33 behaves in the Khorn when you get below 30Hz or so.

[meagain]

Starker Plays Kodaly is off the hook! LOVE THIS!!!!!!!!! I can't wait to play it again... cranked. Beyond cool.

[Parrot]

I'm glad you're digging it. Starker's one of the great ones.

[pauln]

Cello? Best I have heard is St. Saens - Concerto in A Minor for Cello and Orchestra Opus 33, Russian import on Westminter Gold, Gregory Stolardu conducting the Symphony Orchestra of the All Union Radio, Mstislav Rostropovich on the cello (1973).

Rostropovich plays the cello with a firm hand and loves to dive deep... his tone and execution is awesome, many have written cello peices just for him in mind. Associated with Prokofiev - collaborated on his 2nd Cello Concerto; completed Shostakovich's Cello Concerto after the death of the composer, etc. This guy know the Cello... and the St. Saens peice is a scary delight.