upgrading 1970 K-horns; anything needed for 2006 La Scala to be compatible?

[Ed Cook]

After 37 years with 1970 K-horns, now adding new La Scala II center and Heresy III rears.

Ready to modernize the old K-horns. I hear and read generally good things about ALK X-overs but have not seen many comments about the Trachorn which he recommends.

Any comments on the Trachorn?

If I were to update the networks, and perhaps the mid-range horn in the K-horns, would I be wishing that I had done something to the new La Scala center to make it sound similar?

Should I consider changing tweeters as part of this overall update?

Thanks,

Ed Cook

[PrestonTom]

Hello Ed,

Congratulations on the new additions.

My low-budget suggestion would be to simply place an order with Parts Express and update the capacitors on your type A crossovers. The soldering is easy and you can get the parts for less than $15 (Solen caps are fine). If you think other parts are broken, then contact Bob Crites for replacements (you had mentioned the tweeters, but it was not clear whether there was actually a problem).

While you are at it, you might want to search for the threads on "pipe foam", this is a trick (incorporated on later models) to ensure a snug seal between the cabinet and the corner (this can make a real difference and is not expensive).

I will let others suggest some very expensive mods.

Good Luck,

-Tom

[Guest " "]

Wow, what a project.

Have you spent anytime listening to the new LaScala? 

Reason I ask is that it reminds me of folks who have made their new model Khorns sound like their old model khorns by down grading AK-4 xovers to AA type xovers.

Due to the support model and your warranty on the new LaScala, I would recommend giving this some careful consideration.

One of your first decision points is how much priority do you want to give to a Klipsch supported upgrade for the Khorns vs, other options.

[Ed Cook]

Just getting the combination set up. Have not even been able to balance the outputs yet due to some unexpected problems with the electronics that I had not experienced during past set-ups. Have only gotten far enough to discover that the K-horns and La Scala don't sound as much alike as I expected during test tones. I understand that this could simply be because they are not yet balanced, but it all just makes me wonder.

Basically, now that I've grown so ancient as to retire and to have some real time to enjoy music, I hope to be able to get as much quality as is reasonably possible. I understand that "reasonably" is relative, but I'd at least like to get more information to evaluate the available options.

Although not totally ignorant in these matters, I'm certainly no technical expert which is why I'm asking for feedback from folks more knowledgeable than I. Sorry to be dense, but I'm not clear about what you are recommending that I reconsider.

I certainly don't want to downgrade anything. Quite the opposite. I don't know if my assumption is correct, but I assume that even the stock La Scala would have some technological improvements over the old K-horns. I really don't want to feel the need to do anything to the La Scala but I wonder if updates to the K-horns:

a) will result in bringing it up to the current La Scala or

would just be making changes that will make the two sound even less similar.

You can see that I'm starting from a pretty low level relative to most of you in the forums.

[LarryC]

After 37 years with 1970 K-horns, now adding new La Scala II center and Heresy III rears. If I were to update the networks, and perhaps the mid-range horn in the K-horns, would I be wishing that I had done something to the new La Scala center to make it sound similar?

I think you should get used to your new combination for a while before considering changes to your new La Scala IIs. From people's reaction to them at the pilgrimages, and Stereophile's recent very positive revew and Class A recommendation, it's far from clear that changing them would be an improvement. Logically, the opposite tack might make some sense of updating your K-horns with current AK-4 networks, if that brought them into conformity with the new La Scala II's. However, the price for a pair of AK-4 setups, which I think still includes a pair of new tweeters and midrange drivers in addition to the new networks mounted on a new bass bin door, is $1,276 ($638 each), down from $1,800 originally.

I have the AK-4s in my old '62 K-horns and like them quite a bit. They blend extremely well from top to bottom and to my ear have a nice linear sound. Another forum member, Silversport, has them too. I have not compared them with ALKs. Fritz -- owners regressing AK-4's? Wow.

Anyway, assuming you're not going to spend a kilobuck on new Khorn xovers, you should get in touch with Bob Crites and/or Dean G to get some very good advice, better than I have, on just what you should consider.

Larry

[Guest " "]

" Fritz -- owners regressing AK-4's? Wow."

Yes, some really like the AA sound.

I have 2 pairs of AK-4's. Bought one set from someone who made the down grade.

I'm selling some 2004 LaScala's and so far, the only serious taker I have, wants me to down grade everything to AA era stuff.

I can understand this. If your not cranking out high volume levels and running high powered amps....AA era topology is probally the way to go.

[Tom Mobley]

Fritz,

See my reply to you in the chrome T-35 thread, also sent you a PM but no reply?

[pauln]

" Fritz -- owners regressing AK-4's? Wow."

Yes, some really like the AA sound.

I have 2 pairs of AK-4's. Bought one set from someone who made the down grade.

I'm selling some 2004 LaScala's and so far, the only serious taker I have, wants me to down grade everything to AA era stuff.

I can understand this. If your not cranking out high volume levels and running high powered amps....AA era topology is probally the way to go.

I much preferred the Type A to the AL-4's in mine...

[George Roland]

I have been tinkering with my 1977 K-horns for nearly a year now. I bought a pair of Altec 511B horns and they were a great improvement over the K 400. Then I bought Al's Trachorns, and I consider them to be considerably better still, used the K 55 V drivers right along.  ALK will let you try the Trachorns for awhile and refund your money if you don't like them. What's to lose?

Good luck and enjoy your system!

George Roland

[JohnA]

After 37 years with 1970 K-horns, now adding new La Scala II center and Heresy III rears.

Ready

to modernize the old K-horns. I hear and read generally good

things about ALK X-overs but have not seen many comments about the

Trachorn which he recommends.

Any comments on the Trachorn?

If

I were to update the networks, and perhaps the mid-range horn in the

K-horns, would I be wishing that I had done something to the new La

Scala center to make it sound similar?

Should I consider changing tweeters as part of this overall update?

Thanks,

Ed Cook

Your 1970 K-horn have almost the same components as your LA Scala IIs.

The

woofers are quite similar, but your '70s woofers have a lower Fs and

will go a *little* deeper. You might hear a slight improvement by

changing the LS II woofer to an older, square magnet woofer. The

woofers are direct swaps, but do this last.

The squawker driver and horns are effectively identical.

The metal horn in your K-horns should be damped with Dynamat or Rope

caulk. The plastic horn in the LS II should not need damping, but

it won't hurt.

The LS II tweeters are better tweeters. You can get 2 new

ones from Klipsch or pick up a pair of square magnet K-77-Ms and

replace the diaphragms to get peak performance. The -F tweeters

are as close to the -Ms as Klipsch could obtain. Bob (Crites)'s your

uncle for the diaphragm replacement. Bob also has new tweeters

that are even better performers than the K-77-M and -F.

The crossover is the critical part. They will never sound

close until the crossovers are identical. The Cheaper way out is

to replace the caps in your Type AAs with modern caps and build an

identical network for your La Scala. Once you replace the

tweeters with -Ms, the power rating goes from 2 watts continuous to 5

watts continuous/50 watts peak and you can and should disconnect the

KLiP Circuit (zener diodes) for cleaner treble. Al

Klappenberger's universal crossovers are excellent crossovers and will

also drop into any of your front 3. They sound very clear and

clean. They measure pretty flat, especially in a La Scala or

Belle. They have the best of components and cost a fair amount

because of it. They perform like they do because of those premium

components.

Several

of us have developed other crossover designs that you could also

use. I believe the TypeAA is the best all around design, but the

others are good in their own right.

[ClaudeJ1]

Just getting the combination set up. Have not even been able to balance the outputs yet due to some unexpected problems with the electronics that I had not experienced during past set-ups. Have only gotten far enough to discover that the K-horns and La Scala don't sound as much alike as I expected during test tones. I understand that this could simply be because they are not yet balanced, but it all just makes me wonder.

Basically, now that I've grown so ancient as to retire and to have some real time to enjoy music, I hope to be able to get as much quality as is reasonably possible. I understand that "reasonably" is relative, but I'd at least like to get more information to evaluate the available options.

Although not totally ignorant in these matters, I'm certainly no technical expert which is why I'm asking for feedback from folks more knowledgeable than I. Sorry to be dense, but I'm not clear about what you are recommending that I reconsider.

I certainly don't want to downgrade anything. Quite the opposite. I don't know if my assumption is correct, but I assume that even the stock La Scala would have some technological improvements over the old K-horns. I really don't want to feel the need to do anything to the La Scala but I wonder if updates to the K-horns:

a) will result in bringing it up to the current La Scala or

would just be making changes that will make the two sound even less similar.

You can see that I'm starting from a pretty low level relative to most of you in the forums.

I don't have a current LaScala, but I had the "mono in the middle" Klipsch 2ph3 Array since I got my Khorns and LaScala in 1977. I only recently switched to 5.1 surround with the same speakers. The easiest AND quite significant upgrade to the sound is to replace all of the capacitors in your Xovers in the Khorns with new Poly Film units like Dayton, Solen, Sonicaps, etc. as suggested by others. It will make the sound more "crisp" for lack of a better term.

You could also upgrade to Bob Crites "drop in" tweeters or got to new Beymas or used JBL's (which is what I did using Bob's Autoformer to tame them).

But the crossover would be an EXCELLENT starting point for sonic "refresh" of the Khorns.