BS Button Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Full class A amplification.[*-)] What are the opinions? BS[bs] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsman Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Todd, Come on up and take a listen for yourself. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I've had Class A on K-horns since the 1970s, beginning with a pair of Mark Levinson ML-2s (SS) which I kept until the Joule Electra OTL Class A tubes about 3 years ago. The MLs (25 watts ea.) were a revelation at the time, but I had to learn to listen in a different way because the detailing became smoother, finer, more subtle and more real, while at the same time a previous slightly unrealistic edginess to the transient response went away. It seemed paradoxical at the time. The Joules (100 watts ea.) are tube, so that classic difference set them apart from the MLs. However, I feel I still hear the same kind of smooth, sometimes fine detailing. The open clarity of Heritage horns brings out those qualities to advantage, IMO, which I really like. There may be differences favoring Class AB that I don't appreciate, of course. Be aware that Class A is power hungry because (as I understand it, barely) the output devices are always dissipating at a high level in order to be able to capture the entire plus-to-minus signal within each one and not have to divide it up to toss + signals to one device and - signals to another. More heat for that reason. Both ML-2s and the Joules operate at a continuous 400-500 watts per side, which always shows up in my power bills if they're run a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Button Posted May 4, 2007 Author Share Posted May 4, 2007 Todd, Come on up and take a listen for yourself. Jeff You should hear these in the La Scala's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsman Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Todd, I did take your advice when I picked your speakers up and bought a pair of ALK's. With the pCats and a Merlin, you have to hear it in person to truly appreciate the wonderful sound. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 I think the best amp that I have heard on my Belles is the Class A all triode pCAT. I know there are some who believe that a Class A all triode can only handle small combos and female vocalists and that more demanding music such as rock and roll sounds conjested on them. Well I admit that I do not listen to a lot of heavy rock and roll these days. And after I read that I realized that I had not really listened to heavy rock and roll on the pCATS. So last night I pulled out some of the limited Rock and roll that I have on hand and gave it a listen. I also included some classical music which some may consider more challenging than Rock and Roll. Heres what I listened to. I admit its not Heavy Rock but its the best I have. The Who Live at Leeds LP ( I remember seeing the Who -all the original members including Kieth Moon - when they went on tour after this release and man what a show) Stevie Ray Vaughn Texas Flood SACD The Doors Limited edition 3LP 150gr Best of the Doors nice record Rolling Stones Let it Bleed SACD Taj Mahal Recycling the Blues & Other Related Stuff LP -- not a rocker but a hell of a blues record Straus Also Sprach Zarathustra Chicago Symphony Fritz Reiner 45 rpm Classic Records Re Issue. Mahler Symphony # 6 San Francisco Symphony Michael Tilson Thomas SACD I can now say that in my opinion those who believe that a Class A all triode amp cannot handle Rock or Classical at significant volume are wrong. Nothing could be further from the truth at least with this Class A amp. I think Ill spend more time listening to the Stones because they sounded incredible. I have probably listened to Let It Bleed maybe 25000 times in my life and it sounded brand new. WOW. The Doors LP is a great pressing and it sounded incredible as well as did Stevie Ray and Taj Mahal although you might put the Taj Lp in the small combo genre. The Classical Music was outrageous. The Straus was incredible. Very powerful music lots of brass and percussion you know those Germans. Almost knocked me over. I chose the Mahler because I was in the audience at Davies hall when this Grammy winning performance was recorded. I felt like I was there again. Anyway just my ears and my opinion. I know that many are more than likely getting tired of hearing my raves about this amp and i had every intention of laying low for a while but i could not let the suggestion that the pCAT could not handle loud rock and roll stand with out at least giving my perspective - thanks for listening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsman Posted May 4, 2007 Share Posted May 4, 2007 Yeah, I gave my pcats their stress test a couple of nights ago. Put on Yes 9012live at a very substantial volume. I too wanted to see if they could rock the house. Well the volume it was at was lound enough to where I did not want to go any louder. The lights on the front of the pcats were all lit up like a xmas tree, so it was getting a workout. But I was probably only at 1/2 of what they had to give, well maybe a little more. But there was a good amount of headroom left. As I slowly kept bringing the volume up it just sounded better. Yes louder of course, but still very live and concert like feel to it. All the instuments sounded very tight, especially the drums as they hit me in the chest. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 "The wonderful aspect of horns is that there is no reason not to use Class A amplifiers. You don't need gobs of power, so taking advantage of Class A is easy. " Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Button Posted May 5, 2007 Author Share Posted May 5, 2007 I was kinda looking for a modest class A, SS amp. Thanks for the responses, however. BS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z4! Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Monarchy SM-70 Pro! Class A zero feedback design, sound great on Klipsch heritage! I know someone posted recently that they gave the Monarchy's (bridged as mono's) a try and didn't like them; I think that person was in the minority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 The wonderful aspect of high effeceincy horns is that no real tangible reasons exist too limit your use to a pure Class A amplifier (except maybe to brag that your amp is pure class A). With well design A/B push pull amps you rarely ever going to push the amps out of Class A operation so why not take advantage of the benefits of the other classes of operation too improve efficiency, decrease size, increase power, or improve the life of output devices, or all three. When you have 60W or 100W or 300W it doesn't mean you have to use it!! So when you only need a dozen or so watts the other well designed topologies will deliver the Class A at a much lower cost of ownership with the side benefit that you can shake the walls down for those let your hair down moments. Why limit the versatility of your system?? Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeW Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 How many watts does it take to "shake the walls down for those let your hair down moments." ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 That would depend on many variables. All amps will shake the walls but not all amps will sound great doing it and also sound great while not doing it. I've read so many posts where people say "my xxx low watt amp will drive me out of the room it plays so loud" my silent reponse is always the same..... Yup it sure will drive you out of the room playing loud wanna no why [] Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeW Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 That would depend on many variables. All amps will shake the walls but not all amps will sound great doing it and also sound great while not doing it. I've read so many posts where people say "my xxx low watt amp will drive me out of the room it plays so loud" my silent reponse is always the same..... Yup it sure will drive you out of the room playing loud wanna no why [] Craig I don't know, Because the amp went into class B [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 Well then I'd say it's not a class A amp then [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 The wonderful aspect of high effeceincy horns is that no real tangible reasons exist too limit your use to a pure Class A amplifier (except maybe to brag that your amp is pure class A). With well design A/B push pull amps you rarely ever going to push the amps out of Class A operation so why not take advantage of the benefits of the other classes of operation too improve efficiency, decrease size, increase power, or improve the life of output devices, or all three. When you have 60W or 100W or 300W it doesn't mean you have to use it!! So when you only need a dozen or so watts the other well designed topologies will deliver the Class A at a much lower cost of ownership with the side benefit that you can shake the walls down for those let your hair down moments. Why limit the versatility of your system?? Craig Be careful Craig, such common sense may get you into trouble. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 The wonderful aspect of high effeceincy horns is that no real tangible reasons exist too limit your use to a pure Class A amplifier (except maybe to brag that your amp is pure class A). With well design A/B push pull amps you rarely ever going to push the amps out of Class A operation so why not take advantage of the benefits of the other classes of operation too improve efficiency, decrease size, increase power, or improve the life of output devices, or all three. When you have 60W or 100W or 300W it doesn't mean you have to use it!! So when you only need a dozen or so watts the other well designed topologies will deliver the Class A at a much lower cost of ownership with the side benefit that you can shake the walls down for those let your hair down moments. Why limit the versatility of your system?? Craig Be careful Craig, such common sense may get you into trouble. [] Yea well what can I say... I have a knack many things positive and negative like most humans... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 The wonderful aspect of high effeceincy horns is that no real tangible reasons exist too limit your use to a pure Class A amplifier (except maybe to brag that your amp is pure class A). With well design A/B push pull amps you rarely ever going to push the amps out of Class A operation so why not take advantage of the benefits of the other classes of operation too improve efficiency, decrease size, increase power, or improve the life of output devices, or all three. When you have 60W or 100W or 300W it doesn't mean you have to use it!! So when you only need a dozen or so watts the other well designed topologies will deliver the Class A at a much lower cost of ownership with the side benefit that you can shake the walls down for those let your hair down moments. Why limit the versatility of your system?? Craig I think the "tangible" reason is better sounding music at all listening levels.[] Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@silverfox@ Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 For my edification does an amplifier exhibit the same charastic wether a 3,5,25 , watt ss or tube played in class "a" as a 30, 50,125, tube or ss amplifier design for a/b played in class "a" what would be the defficiences of the class a/b amp. please not trying to irritate or incite seems to me that one is beign infered i'am looking for clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted May 5, 2007 Share Posted May 5, 2007 The wonderful aspect of high effeceincy horns is that no real tangible reasons exist too limit your use to a pure Class A amplifier (except maybe to brag that your amp is pure class A). With well design A/B push pull amps you rarely ever going to push the amps out of Class A operation so why not take advantage of the benefits of the other classes of operation too improve efficiency, decrease size, increase power, or improve the life of output devices, or all three. When you have 60W or 100W or 300W it doesn't mean you have to use it!! So when you only need a dozen or so watts the other well designed topologies will deliver the Class A at a much lower cost of ownership with the side benefit that you can shake the walls down for those let your hair down moments. Why limit the versatility of your system?? Craig I think the "tangible" reason is better sounding music at all listening levels.[] Josh Well Josh it wasn't all that long ago that you thought bridging a pair of stereo MC225 in mono of CLASS B per channel was the end all be all [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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