Bose 901 VI

[Def Leper]

Def Leper-<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Having owned and used 901 IIs, and <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Cornwalls, Khorns, Las Scalas and Heresies, I agree with your relative assessment of the 901s vs. Cornwalls. Maxg asked you to confirm that you are using the Bose EQ; again as a former owner, I strongly suspect that you are. Without the EQ, the 901s live up to that joke, No highs, no lows, must be Bose.

Not being a Bozophile, Im not certain at which series the 901s went from sealed MDF enclosures to ported plastic enclosures. Its my recollection that they switched at the same time from black 4.5 cloth surround full range drivers with four mounting holes to blue 4.5 foam surround full range drivers with three mounting holes. The foam surrounds are notoriously prone to deterioration. Bose is expert at using cheap components to produce spectacular (not necessarily accurate) sound.

As I mentioned to Maxg, I'm indeed using the crossover and it has been rebuilt with new components. I can compare it with my other, unrebuilt crossover to confirm that the rebuild was effective. When the crossover is cut out, it's easy to hear why the 901's are not audiophile speakers in any sense of the word-- Any loudspeaker that needs that much active equalization to have acceptable sound is not based on sound engineering. The comparison is striking, and yes, the Cornwalls can be completely merciless with respect to poor program material, but that's not a shortcoming, it's a blessing.

Bose went to the foam surrounds and porting with the Series III speakers. I specifically selected the Series II speakers just for that reason-- They are considered by Bose collectors to be the most representative of the 901 sound that Dr. Bose intended, with some cosmetic, mechanical and electronic improvements over the Series I system but with much tighter and disciplined bass than the ported designs. (and foam surrounds that self-destruct.) As a music and antique phonograph collector, I wanted to add a set of these speakers because I consider them one of the iconic speaker designs of the 1960's and early '70's.

[Erik Mandaville]

Def Leper (who, if there is such a person, has my sympathy)

The extra information you provided with this was interesting, and adds to the knowledge presented in this thread. I wasn't aware that the series III were a highly praised edition of the the 901 system.

Max: Sorry about that, but I am very interested to hear what you think about them with the hefty amplifier you mentioned. I want to go and listen to them again, too, and to find out more than I did the first time around about related 'peripherals.'

And: "The foam surrounds are notoriously prone to deterioration. Bose is expert at using cheap components to produce spectacular (not necessarily accurate) sound"

Replacing surrounds is something I've done three or four times, and it wasn't as much fun as some other DIY audio repair projects. However, it's the last sentence that really caught my attention -- where you mention the possibility of cheap (easily obtained, lower cost) components that, in the right hands, are capable of spectacular (not necessarily accurate) sound. The implications of that statement are significant. I have to say that, if given the chance to choose between two 'classifications' of sound reproduction, where to ME one was, as you say, 'spectacular' and the other 'accurate,' I think I would tend to be more likely to give the spectacular example the nod. I want music to be engaging, both in terms of composition and other musical elements, as well as in terms of how it's represented and reproduced at home. IMO, 'spectacular' is more of an emotionally derived judgement, where I guess I sort of feel that 'accuracy' is more, well, almost clinical in a way. For something to be accurate or inaccurate, I guess I would like to have a basis of comparison from which to judge; since I find it hard to know if anything is accurate or not unless an original version, or 'live' version of the event or thing, is present and available at the same time. We get into aesthetics and philosophy, and I'm too tired now for either. That sentence was provocative.

Erik

[maxg]

We have hopefully postphoned the visit till Sunday so I can get organised. I am planning to take 2 amp/pre-amp combos with me to play with.

The first will be the Yamaha/Klimo mentioned earlier - the second the ZTPRE/Tsakiridis (150 wpc into 8 ohms).

It will be interesting to compare - and I might well take a CD player with me as I know what that sounds like too.

I am not altogether sure what I am expecting. I have this theory that the reflected sound might actually produce a very lifelike feel to the music (as in more like an auditorium). That means big and airy but without the highly defined imaging I am used to with Horns. Depth will be interesting too - could be like panels in that respect - or could be non-existant.

Ultimately I am trying to control my expectations here as I want to go in with an open mind as possible - but the more I read and the more I look at the underlynig technology the more interesting it gets.

On the foam surrounds - I am aware of this but there are repair kits available so whilst it might be a PITA it is not a deal breaker. Just hope all 9 drivers in each speaker dont go at the same time....

[Erik Mandaville]

Max:

Great, have a good time with that. I've seen the refoam kits on ebay, too. Absolutely, I agree that shouldn't be a deal breaker, either. Our Lowthers have foam surrounds, and they are still in good shape after 10 years.

Erik

[maxg]

Erik,

Just as a heads up if you do decide to go for a pair - used, I found this site with all the why's and wherefore's of buying the different versions of the 901 - and the potential pitfalls:

http://www.epinions.com/content_4691894404

There appears to be more to buying this speaker than most - due to the equalizer - which changed with different versions of the speaker. Get a mismatched pair and the results are apparently disasterous.

Who knew?

Also interesting - the newer ones seem to have less of a power need than the older ones. For the 901 V6 Bose (helpfully - not) say an amp of between 10 and 450 wpc is required. I guess even you have a 10 wpc amp somewhere.....

On the other hand - does this mean that 901's need less power than Heritage? If only the colourful feathered one was still posting here......[]

[Roc Rinaldi]

You have been listening to Erik and Max convince themselves that BOSE makes high quality speakers.

You have even seen them plan how they will deal with the myriad of problems created by the BOSE manufacturing processes.

God bless them and God protect them. They will be busy little beavers supporting the high maintenance requirements of the 901s.

This is what makes the world go round.

[Roc Rinaldi]

BOSE 901 VI

MSRP: $ 1499.00

Review Date: March 19, 2007

Overall Rating: 2 of 5

Value Rating: 1 of 5

Used product for: More than 1 year

Price Paid: $900.00 from Private (used)

Summary:
Wow. Is there any other audio product out there that gets such extreme reviews? I can only bet that someone that is reading this is waiting to see if I am a Bose basher or praiser. I am neither, but please believe me when I say I have over 30 years of audio listening experience with everything that could be considered high end or mid or low end.
The facts are the facts. One man's listening pleasure is another man's displeasure.
Believe people when they say that the room, and placement are critical for getting nice sound. I say nice sound, but I have to say that while the sound is ok for the most part, it is not high-end nor is it worth the money that these cost whether new or used.
Build quality is embarrassing. 9 paper cone midrange drivers, heavily equalized to 'try' and produce 20 to 20,000 Hz is just an embarrassment. Spring clips for connections?
The sound, as I say is ok. But to the reviewers who say these speakers can produce low freq bass, well I take extreme issue with that. I have a Paradigm Servo-15 for low bass, not to mention a pair of Klipschhorns AND Cerwin-Vega RE-38's. Have I made my point yet? I know what low accurate loud bass is. Truth be told, my CV's kick the crap out of any speaker I have heard for bass, but that is another review.
I can honestly see why many people could love the sound of the Bose 901's. My father does. However he is also of the mentality to leave the bass and treble controls (just forget about a regular eq for him) in the off position because he does not like loud music, 'altered' music, nor does he like dance-music type bass. He does like the artificial imaging that the Bose speakers attempt from silly reflections. To my father's credit he does not consider himself an audiophile nor would he argue that my other equipment mentioned above does not just totally outclass the Bose 901's.
Forget about the 901's in a HT setup, just forget about it.
Forget about using the 901's for a party with some trance, hip-hop or dance music.
I have some really diverse jazz and blues cds that sound ok with the 901's, the silly direct/reflect characteristics of these speakers add a nice ambience when used for low level background music.
Vocals are accurate and clear, as they should be for (9!) midrange drivers.
I only bought the 901's in the first place because my father was excited about them, and I had enough money to get them even with all my other gear.

Strengths:
- Clear vocals and midrange in general
Direct/reflect sound is interesting, but so was the spacial expander button on my Realistic 12 band EQ that I bought in the 80's. Don't laugh but it sounded nice with dance music but even back then I was not confused enough to consider that high end sound.
- 901's really can stand enormous power levels. But let's be realistic here, the 500 watts of clean power out of my Crown amp is being sent to 9 drivers for an approx 55 watts of power per driver. My Minimus 7's from back in the day could handle 40 watts themselves and sounded amazing for their size and 69.99 price tag. If you are feeding the Bose 901's with 200 watts does this really impress you that each driver is handling 22 watts?
- Unique stands and shape of speakers give the speakers a 'conversation piece' characteristic.
- No issues with speaker foam rot *yet*

Weaknesses:
- Build quality, just embarrassing. Spring clips for speakers connections? Paper cones with foams edges just waiting to rot? Cheap veneer finish?
- Useless for dance or bass heavy music, but my opinion on this point could be skewed if you note some of the other equipment I own above. My father thinks they have a lot of bass.
- Room placement for any speaker can make a big difference, but these 901's are insane for this. Believe the other reviewer's when they say that even moving the speakers 6 inches one way or the other totally changes the sound
- No imagining, none. Reflected sound is NOT imaging people, sorry.
- I will sign off by saying that I strongly encourage people out there to listen carefully before actually purchasing the 901's. Who knows you may like them and if you do, I respect that.

Similar Products Used:
You name a speaker company, I have either owned it or listened critically to it.

If you want bone jarring loud bass then buy the big Cerwin-Vegas

If you want real imaging I really like Martin-Logan (I realize the price tag)

If you want HT speakers then buy the Paradigm speakers and Servo-15 sub

If you want to buy the Bose 901's then do not use any of these reviews as a basis for your decision, but please set aside a lot of time to listen to these before you buy them. If possible take them home for 2 weeks for a no pressure audition in your own home. I gave the 901's a '1' for value rating because of the embarrassing build quality. I gave them a '2' for overall rating because they provide nice background music for everyday sound, or parties (but do you really need to spend ~$1000 dollars to do this?!!?)

[Roc Rinaldi]

Here is some more to help you sleep better.

Bose Wave radio CD

Description: Stereo AM/FM/CD alarm clock

Rating
Reviewed by:

jhencken
(Casual Listener)

Review Date
February 25, 2006

Overall Rating
2 of 5

Value Rating
1 of 5

Used product for
Less than 1 month

Price Paid: $500.00 from Bose retailer

Summary:
Engineering varies enormously from one CD to another, and more importantly, EARS vary from one person to another. I don't like too much bass, and much modern engineering over-emphasizes bass. As I get older I will be losing some of my ability to hear the higher frequencies, and the Bose wave audio system doesn't allow me to do what every cheap boombox on the market (and Bose's own car systems, which I have) would permit -- alter the "tone" characteristics. I can't imagine anyone who takes classical music seriously (I know there aren't many of us left!) not having a problem with it. The only way I can think of to account for the alleged lack of complaints is that they are using the product just as a clock radio, and for their "real listening" they use something else. I wanted to use this for "real" listening because it looks great, takes up little room, and has otherwise good sound.

Strengths:
looks great, small footprint, good sound if you are satisfied with the engineering of the original CD and are under 40

Weaknesses:
It never occurred to me to ask the salesperson, and why should it? -- that while there are all kinds of options for time (which I don't need), clock radio functions (which I don't need) and random playing of tracks (which I may use twice a year)... there is no bass/treble control for CDs. What genius made this decision?

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Bose Wave radio CD

Description: Stereo AM/FM/CD alarm clock

Rating
Reviewed by:

compaqguy
(AudioPhile)

Review Date
November 17, 2005

Overall Rating
2 of 5

Value Rating
1 of 5

Used product for
More than 1 year

Price Paid: $350.00 from 1-800-444-BOSE

Summary:
well, I bought one of these when I didn't know any better. When I was in 7th or 8th grade, I thought that Bose produced the best sound around. I will not get into what I currently think of Bose Corporation in this review. A guy at my church showed me his Wave Radio because I wanted something small that sounded good, and I was taken back by the sound, granted. This radio sounds much bigger than it looks. The booming, one notish bass and piercing highs grabbing you at first listen. Bose uses a well known smoke and mirrors trick that boosts the bass and highs to make their products sound more pleasing at first to the ear, but it gets fatiguing quickly. It never dawned on me why I would love the sound at first, but shut the radio off after about 15 minutes of sitting and listening to it because I had a headache. I admit my hearing it sensitive, but vocals aren't supposed to be spitty if cleanly recorded. Violins and Harps took on a hard, metallic quality that was not pleasing to listen to. Everything that had high frequency content to it became edgy and artificially compresed, causing the fatigue. It sounded like the response in the treble was like a roller coaster, and quite louder than the midrange. TYPICAL BOSE. The bass is just as bad, really tubby. It doesn't sound like there is any control. If you listen to a well recorded stand up bass, such as Diana Krall's Love Scenes, the bass lags behind everything else. To say the least, this is not at all how something of this price ($350) should perform. Bose tries to get a driver that is too small to produce bass by pumping up midbass level. This creates a booming effect, and makes the Wave Radio easily outperformed by its competitors. One of them being the Soundworks Radio. I now own the Soundworks Radio in grey. As far as using the radio, it really does not get any easier. Everything is right there and up on the top. I like the remote, and Bose sent me some velcro so I could attach the remote to something so I wouldn't lose it. However, at that price they better load up on features. It is funny that the Soundworks Radio has a very similar remote to the Wave, with less buttons. Soundworks wins again, offering even more features than Bose for a little more than half of the price. I loved the alarm ramp up feature on the volume, so it wouldnt blast you out in the morning, as well as the dual alarms. And truth be told, it really is beautiful. But, bottom like, the sound BLOSE!!!!!! ESPECIALLY given the fact that you paid $350 for nothing more than a clock radio! The Soundworks Radio simply sounds MUCH better, has tone adjustments, AN ACTUAL WOOFER, and is LOTS cheaper to boot!!! It still has the dual alarms as well, and they are easier to set. Soundworks Radio 730 is $199 740CD is $299 for $200, Onkyo has a shelf system that will beat the pants off of both of these systems, and even has a CD plaver built in, with 2 way speakers built out of real wood. I have heard this as well, and it is exquisite. You don't get the alarms, just a straight up music system. Onkyo CS-210 I wrote a review of the Wave Radio a few years ago on another website before I became educated on it. I have since prevented someone that has an Acoustimass home theater system from buying one, and has instead purchased a Paradigm Monitor 7 based home theatre system

Strengths:
beautiful design, striking in black, heavy, auto dimming clock, ramping alarm, bose name

Weaknesses:
clipped highs, terrible bass, PRICE , you cant control anything about the sound, bose name

Similar Products Used:
Cambridge Soundworks 730 radio

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Erik and Max, enjoy your new 901s.

[Roc Rinaldi]

Too Old to Rock and Roll, Too Young To Die....

How old is "Too Old to Rock and Roll"?

I need to know because maybe I'm too old also.

[Roc Rinaldi]

http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html

[oldtimer]

"If only the colourful feathered one was still posting here......"

Thread would be locked by now...not that I don't miss him also....

[Roc Rinaldi]

"If only the colourful feathered one was still posting here......"

Thread would be locked by now...not that I don't miss him also....

What's his name and why are you so enamored with him?

Was he inflammatory?

[oldtimer]

He is speaking of parrot and I don't know about "enamored" but he did sometimes make things interesting around here, and yes he was at times inflammatory, sort of like a lit match near gasoline...

[wstrickland1]

I think getech can get you a killer deal on Bose 901s

[Guest " "]

" They will be busy little beavers supporting the high maintenance requirements of the 901s."

to be fair...and I think I can be since I own the 901's, Khorns, LaScala's, 3 pairs of Heresy's, and had some cornwalls...I, like most other Heritage product owners have re-capped, replaced standard xovers with univesals, replaced universals with extreme slope, changed my mid drivers, changed my tweeters, changed my woofers, etc.....however, I have never had to do anything to my 901's....If I have been busy...99% of that busy time has been with the Heritage products.

[DizRotus]

Speakerfritz-

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

You said, ...I, like most other Heritage product owners have re-capped. . .

I would agree that many Heritage owners on this forum have performed some update, such as re-capping networks, but I would be surprised if it is anything close to most. I would be even more surprised if anything approaching a majority of Heritage ownersmost of whom have probably never seen this forumdo anything more than listen to and enjoy their speakers.

[Guest " "]

DizRotus

Ok, change from most to some.

[Erik Mandaville]

Roc:

Thanks for contributing those reviews of the Bose products. I notice that you selected particularly negative responses, and am just wondering if in your quest for support of your own view you found any positive comments regarding Bose speakers in general or the 901 system in particular? I've done some homework, too.

Honestly, since I joined this forum, an element that constantly amazes me is the level of egocentricity that frequently surfaces -- whether the subject happened to be capacitor type/brand, crossover slope, low power/high power, cathode resistor bypass/unbypass, and whatever else that we have hit back and forth over the years -- it seems that it is inherently difficult for some to comprehend the idea that what they prefer in terms of all of those factors (caps, amps, crossover networks, etc.) just might not be the same for someone else; and based on that will immediately write-off or deem ignorant any view or taste in sound that does not happen to gel with their own.

Erik

[Erik Mandaville]

Max:

I wish I could join you on Sunday. What I respect is your willingness to listen again for yourself before making a judgement -- pro or con.

Erik

[Painful Reality]

Honestly, since I joined this forum, an element that constantly amazes me is the level of egocentricity that frequently surfaces -- whether the subject happened to be capacitor type/brand, crossover slope, low power/high power, cathode resistor bypass/unbypass, and whatever else that we have hit back and forth over the years -- it seems that it is inherently difficult for some to comprehend the idea that what they prefer in terms of all of those factors (caps, amps, crossover networks, etc.) just might not be the same for someone else; and based on that will immediately write-off or deem ignorant any view or taste in sound that does not happen to gel with their own.

Erik

You started a freakin thread on Bose speakers in an Audio forum for Christ's sake. What did you expect from that? A "100%-two-thumps-up-whoopee-you're-so-right" type of answer by everyone?

The only other thing I can think of in order to systematically get your a_ss kicked is to wear a Spandau Ballet t-shirt in a Hells Angel convention. Oh wait, maybe attending Jerry Falwell's funeral wearing a Tinky Winky outfit might also cause an equivalent stir.

Everybody knowledgeable knows that the only thing below Bose in the Great World of Audio is a KR tube.