Diesel may come on strong in U.S. in 2008-2010

[mas]

The oil sands of Alberta Canada are no longer prohibitively expensive, just as domestic exploration as well as domestic oil shales are no longer such as well.

Another interesting fact is that there is no shortage of domestic natural gas - only limitations in the distribution system which is currently easily interrupted and also relatively easily corrected if the correct focus is employed.

And folks, while an electric or hybrid electric car sounds nice and does indeed result in less point source emissions, to a great degree it simply shifts the primary site of the pollution from the car to the generating plant with a concomitant waste in energy that is fundamental to grid flat losses. Additional research into superconductivity, if only for applications in high voltage transmission lines would effectively give us an effective increase of almost 30% increase in the number of power generation stations.

I can't help but think any imagined one size fits all solution is doomed to fail. But instead a primary focus should be on 'appropriate alternative technologies' - both active and passive - that leverage local availability and suitability to reduce the net demand upon the system.

And I can't help but think of how so many wait for the amorphous "they" to solve their problems, rather than assuming control for much of their own situations. I mean, how many complain about the quality and safety and cost of food yet fail to have a garden!? Why do I tend to be a bit pessimistic as long as most simply sit on their butts wondering when "they" - either technology or the guberment - will magically solve their perceived dilemma?

I mean, for instance, how many of you complaining (here! Right now!) actually have the DOE suggested R46 level of insulation in the attic for say Texas (or whatever is recommended in YOUR area)? And I hazard to guess what the folks int he northern states actually have in theirs? The most effective and economical change you can make??? And there are even government incentive plans administered locally as well as tax incentives for such TRADITIONAL measures as simply increasing the insulation in your house, and yet most sit and complain as to when they will develop some magical new technology. I mean, how simply can it be and yet we still whine and wait for "them" to solve OUR problem.

Here's a simple idea...get off of your butts, insulate your attic, seal air leaks, replace your lights with electronic ballast fluorescents (and LEDs as they become available!) and start a garden. If everyone that could, did, we would be well on our way to not only saving money and significantly reducing demand, increasing self sufficiency and (at least up north!) staying just a bit warmer, and (in the south) staying just a bit cooler! ;-) - we just may manage to be just a bit thinner!

[Daddy Dee]

In my side of central Arkansas:

Unleaded Regular $2.94.9

Diesel; $2.64.9

Today's news says expect prices to increase by $.50 in the summer.

Diesel is looking better.

[Jay481985]

I remember a Volkswagen Golf modified diesel manual got better gasmileage than a prius.

[CECAA850]

I think the particulate filter is meant to catch the "soot" that was charactistic of diesels. I am not exactly sure of the chemistry, but for some reason the ability to filter this out required the sulphur content of diesel fuel to gp to almost zero. This makes a slightly "poorer" fuel in BTU content and takes out much of the natural lubricating quality of the diesel fuel. Supposedly, they then add back in some sort of "lubricity" agent to replace that. Net result is expected to result in a few less percent in power and efficiency.

The particulate filter is designed to reduce NO2. The ultra low sulpher diesel, although deemed safe, may cause pump seals to leak in the older diesels designed for fuel with the higher sulpher content. It reminds me of the time when leaded gasoline was being phased in.

Those that would run "off road" or "farm" diesel (read no highway tax) in their trucks to save a buck are in for a big surprise when they run a tankful through their new UL Sulpher trucks.

[Daddy Dee]

I think the particulate filter is meant to catch the "soot" that was charactistic of diesels. I am not exactly sure of the chemistry, but for some reason the ability to filter this out required the sulphur content of diesel fuel to gp to almost zero. This makes a slightly "poorer" fuel in BTU content and takes out much of the natural lubricating quality of the diesel fuel. Supposedly, they then add back in some sort of "lubricity" agent to replace that. Net result is expected to result in a few less percent in power and efficiency.

The particulate filter is designed to reduce NO2. The ultra low sulpher diesel, although deemed safe, may cause pump seals to leak in the older diesels designed for fuel with the higher sulpher content. It reminds me of the time when leaded gasoline was being phased in.

Those that would run "off road" or "farm" diesel (read no highway tax) in their trucks to save a buck are in for a big surprise when they run a tankful through their new UL Sulpher trucks.

What would happen in this case. I know that farm and highway diesel can be distinguished by a coloring agent, but didn't know there was a difference in the fuel chemistry.

[BEC]

For most of the history of diesel fuel, the farm stuff was exactly the same as the road diesel and just a color (red) was added to the farm diesel to identify it as being for farm use and exempt from the road tax.  With the advent of low sulphur diesel and now ultra low sulphur diesel, I don't know if that still applies.  Before, the "red" diesel worked fine in the highway rigs as long as you did not get caught by the Highway Patrol when you used it.  Now, if the farm diesel is one of the high sulphur fuels, it would quickly ruin the catalyst in the exhaust system of a vehicle that requires ultra low sulphur diesel.

[LarryC]

I think the particulate filter is meant to catch the "soot" that was charactistic of diesels. I am not exactly sure of the chemistry, but for some reason the ability to filter this out required the sulphur content of diesel fuel to gp to almost zero. This makes a slightly "poorer" fuel in BTU content and takes out much of the natural lubricating quality of the diesel fuel. Supposedly, they then add back in some sort of "lubricity" agent to replace that. Net result is expected to result in a few less percent in power and efficiency.

The particulate filter is designed to reduce NO2.

The particulate filter appears to be separate from the NO2 catalytic converters, as shown in the diagrams a third of the way down this web page.

The difference between particulate filters and NO converters is mentioned in the rather general description of the Bluetec system in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlueTec.

[Jay481985]

probably clog the fuel system as well

[SCOOTERDOG]

I drive a 2002 Ford F250 Crew Cab 4x4 with the 7.3 Powerstroke diesel under the hood. I have it modified some to allow for flexibility. I run a 6 position Bully Dog chip( up to an extra 125 HP & 125lbs torque) I have this because it give me additional power for towing up and over the beautiful Sawtooth mountains here in Idaho without breaking a sweat. An Airaid intake system to feed it lots of clean air and a 4" Borla exhaust so it can breath better. Not only does this give me a HP and torque rating of 370hp and 615 lbs of torque I get 15-16mpg city and 22-23mpg Hwy at an avg speed of 84mph. To top it off when I pull my 30' 5th wheel I avg. about 16mpg at an avg. speed of 70 (depending if its real windy or not. Real windy I slow down to 60-65... Scary).

There is no way I would ever go into a gas powered truck. The only thing on the market that comes close in power ratings is a V10 from Ford or Dodge and then you are really sucken up the gas. The 7.3 Powerstroke is built to go 500,000 miles with proper maintenance, try that with a gas engine. Yeah oil changes are twice as much, but I don't have to do tune ups either...no spark plugs. Yeah Glow plugs will need to be replaced as well as injectors at some point, but so will injectors on gas engines too. I have 124k on my truck and it is just broken in. The only thing I have done to it besides regular maintenance is replaced the glow plug relay ($42.00) took me 10 minutes and that is it! Oh I have put in new brakes but I think that is maintenance.

I do my own maintenance except change the oil because it is more cost effective to have it done. However, I do take them the oil filter I want installed instead of the one they supply. I use a fram for my diesel because it has a special valve that keeps oil in the filter (2 quarts) that way on start up it moves up the engine fast.

So what does this all mean? Buy a diesel. Whether it be a hybrid car or a full size truck and you will not regret it. Oh BTW they are not the noisy smelly things of the past. They are fun to drive, lots of balls and I love when I decide to take on my fellow teenagers with their mustangs and rice rockets. The expression on the face of a kid that just got his clock rung by a big 4 door 4x4 7000lb crew cab truck is priceless. []

[Jay481985]

I remember a Volkswagen Toureg that was running around 900 lb torque with the v10 diesel. Boy did that think have power, not head snapping but like a 747 taking off the runway, you get pushed into your seat

[oldbuckster]

We use too much gas here..................We have been spoiled way too long, now we are paying the fiddler for the dance.......Hurts the pocket book, time to pay up for all the cheap gas we have had in the past................Sorry, pay at the pump.................EH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CECAA850]

For most of the history of diesel fuel, the farm stuff was exactly the same as the road diesel and just a color (red) was added to the farm diesel to identify it as being for farm use and exempt from the road tax. With the advent of low sulphur diesel and now ultra low sulphur diesel, I don't know if that still applies. Before, the "red" diesel worked fine in the highway rigs as long as you did not get caught by the Highway Patrol when you used it. Now, if the farm diesel is one of the high sulphur fuels, it would quickly ruin the catalyst in the exhaust system of a vehicle that requires ultra low sulphur diesel.

There are currently 2 issues that I'm aware of in regards to off road diesel. 1, as you have mentioned, is the fact that they are currently not ULS blends and will quickly clog particulate filters. The second is the fact that most off road fuel is stored in less than ideal containers. Rust particles, condensation, organics and misc contaminates abound. In the past, this was not an issue. With the advent of High Pressure (27,000 psi) Common Rail diesels, there is less tolerance for such items. The old mechanical pumps would chew it up and the pop off style injectors would pass it through. Now, the metering is so fine that the least bit of trash can hang an electronic injector open and melt a piston. Plus, it is still ilegal.

[CECAA850]

I think the particulate filter is meant to catch the "soot" that was charactistic of diesels. I am not exactly sure of the chemistry, but for some reason the ability to filter this out required the sulphur content of diesel fuel to gp to almost zero. This makes a slightly "poorer" fuel in BTU content and takes out much of the natural lubricating quality of the diesel fuel. Supposedly, they then add back in some sort of "lubricity" agent to replace that. Net result is expected to result in a few less percent in power and efficiency.

The particulate filter is designed to reduce NO2.

The particulate filter appears to be separate from the NO2 catalytic converters, as shown in the diagrams a third of the way down this web page.

The difference between particulate filters and NO converters is mentioned in the rather general description of the Bluetec system in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlueTec.

I don't believe that both systems are currently running in the new US trucks, just the particulate filters.

[CECAA850]

Something else to consider on the new diesels is the fact that the low ash engine oil (required) is currently roughly twice the price of the conventional oils. Expect to see oil changes in excess of $100.00 dollars.

[LarryC]

I don't believe that both systems are currently running in the new US trucks, just the particulate filters.

Sounds right, Mercedes only talks about having put the entire Bluetec system in 10,000 European trucks and buses so far (I think I've got that much right). You and BEC clearly are up to speed on what's going on, I'm only pulling stuff off the web and am sometimes unclear about US vs. Europe.

M-B still has another stage of emission control to be approved, its "Adblue" injection to reduce NOx to the 50-state level requirement, before its Bluetec diesel can be sold in the remaining 5 states including NY and CA. It hopes for the approval during the 2008 model year.

[CECAA850]

Dodge shouldn't need it right away as their '07 models meet the 2010 requirements. Ford is somewhat up to speed. Chevy is lagging slightly behind. Their lagging emission standards have given them the edge in torque bragging rights for now.

[Jay481985]

I don't believe that both systems are currently running in the new US trucks, just the particulate filters.

Sounds right, Mercedes only talks about having put the entire Bluetec system in 10,000 European trucks and buses so far (I think I've got that much right). You and BEC clearly are up to speed on what's going on, I'm only pulling stuff off the web and am sometimes unclear about US vs. Europe.

M-B still has another stage of emission control to be approved, its "Adblue" injection to reduce NOx to the 50-state level requirement, before its Bluetec diesel can be sold in the remaining 5 states including NY and CA. It hopes for the approval during the 2008 model year.

I think the one to make it 50 state legal is the one that uses urea, yeah the one that everyone pee's out. You just need to carry a separate tank of urea to make the diesel 50 state legal... Drink up guys and gals

[Me Loves Khorns]

I drive a Ford Excursion 4X4 diesel, 2004. Essentially a F 250 enclosed...

Ideal for bringing speakers to Hope, BTW!!![Y]

I love my diesel. Had the same truck with the V10 in the past. It had power, was terribly thirsty. I now get almost twice the mileage now. And, diesel has just recently come down to less than gas!!!! Love that![]

Paul

[oldbuckster]

Diesel is still made from crude oil...............How will it help? There is no easy answer..............Drive Less.............

[mas]

Diesel is still made from crude oil...............How will it help? There is no easy answer..............Drive Less.............

Diesel can be produced from renewable organic sources, although the cost to do so exceeds that of petroleum sources.

And in addition, if you actually analyze the total aggregate 'energy/carbon footprint' that is required to do so, the process is not a pretty picture. In every category it is worse than the problem they seek to solve! But many would have you think that the reason we are not all doing this is simply because of the oil companies stopping us rather than looking at the actual economic reality.

But, for the sake of the idyllic notion of many, you are not supposed to notice that 'man behind the curtain'!