Room Treatments............

[SWL]

I spent about $600 on bass traps, absorption panels etc. a few months ago. I'm sure this has been discussed before but hey, what the heck. The only thing I know for certain in my listening room is that I got rid of a lot of reflections and echoes. I can't say that it really made anything sound any clearer, tighter or more exciting in any way. Would I do it again knowing this? Of course because this hobby has made me nuts trying to get the perfect sound!!! Just wondering if anybody else did something in this manner to actually improve sq in addition to eliminating reflections and echoes. I know this is a big "diy thing" that the imagination can persuade you after you put hard work and money into the project but please try to be realistic. Thanx, Scott.

[picky]

First, welcome to the forum!

Can you describe your room for us to help us out? Dimensions, structure, layout, use and the existing treatments you've applied. An equipment list and listening preferences always helps, too. Thanks. -Glenn

[SWL]

Room is 19X14. Listening position is 10' away from TV and front speakers. There is a window directly behind the listening position 10' wide X 5' tall. Rear speakers also on the rear wall elevated about 6' high. Subs are on each side of the tv, one on the left and two RSW's stacked in the front right corner 5' from the tv. GIK absorption panels are 4'x2'x4" thick. Room is open to the dining room so there are only three corners. Each corner has a 4x2 panel as a bass trap. Panels are on each side of the room at the reflection points. (I used a mirror) Another 4x2 panel is behind the center channel that sits on top of the tv. I foun that the huge window behind the listening position needed some treatment so velvet drapes now cover approx. 60 percent of the window. Initially I had the whole thing covered but it made the room too "dead". This is a room used for 30%movies 70%music. Like I said, reflections and echoes are under control but sound quality never seemed to improve. It still sounds excellent, always did. Rock music gets played the most in this room (usually the worst sound quality).

[picky]

Scott: Our rooms are quite similar in size: 19' x 14' versus 10.5' x 19' for mine with 19 being the depth front-to-back. In smaller rooms such as ours, echo-time tends to all but non-existent. In my experience, the echo-time is more significant a factor while listening to music, rather than while viewing movies. My reason for saying this is because I feel that multi-channel movies tend to create more of an artificial "environment" for themselves within a room than does stereo music alone. Therefore, much of the room echo heard during a movie is directly from the DVD and then discretely reproduced by the surround system, thereby "fooling" the listener into believing the room is much larger than it really is. Despite the fact that stereo-mixed albums and CDs do contain echo on the recording, the system interprets and processes it in a different manner making the lack of room reverberation-time more noticeable. This is all purely my opinion.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

I have noticed the lack of echo-time in my room while listening to stereo sources. My room however, is not what I would consider "dead", even though I have a suspended ceiling with Sonex 2" thick melamine foam ceiling tiles installed. The sound is direct and comes right at you with no reflection from the ceiling and nothing noticeable from the concrete floor (it's a basement). Wall reflection is controlled by thick membrane I have installed in the walls between the studs and drywall.

You mentioned that you have to RSW subs stacked. Have you ever tried splitting them up and placing them in different areas of the room other than in a corner? Doing so may smooth the bass out, if that is an issue. My one 15" RSW sub is midway down the left side wall and it works perfectly in our space.

It certainly appears you have attempted to think of everything with all of the attention to treatments, but just about everything you mentioned has to do with absorption. I would agree that "too dead" a room is usually an undesirable quality, but given the fact that you have added all of these absorption treatments, shouldn't regaining some of the "liveliness" back into the room just be a simple matter of removing a treatment or two a time and the testing the effect? In going after the elimination of standing waves and reflection with your treatment, you are probably absorbing too much of the upper mid and high frequency range, thereby creating a "dead room". Perhaps, using some sort of diffusion technique (instead of absorption), you could fine tune the room to eliminate just the offensive frequencies while leaving others alone. I'm not suggesting that you spend addition monies, but there are projects listed on-line to assist you in building diffusion devices yourself using scrap materials.

Highly respected, fellow forum member mas has written a great deal of material over in the Architectural Forum about Large and Small room acoustics that I highly recommend you review. Here is the link:

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/796165.aspx I hope it helps you. -Glenn

[dkp]

Glenn-what is the name of that company, located in MI, that produces the (foam?)? I remember reading about them in one of the threads on the forum but cannot recall the name of the company.

Thanks!

-David

PS Hmm, is it "Foam Factory?"

[Strabo]

Welcome to the forum. Sounds like you are on your way to making the most out of your system.

As mentioned, definately check out the architectural forum for more information than I ever expected to learn.

You mention tv and subs, so I'm guessing that you have an SPL meter already.

Not the end all be all, but find a frequency generator and make some plots of the frequency response at the listening position. Focus on the valleys in your graph and set the generator to play them while walking around the room trying to find the high points that offset your low readings and put your panels or diffusion there. These points can be located at any height along the walls, or in the middle of the room.
It's not perfect but it's exponetially better than randomly throwing absorbtion around the room.

For example, I have a non-standard room with odd length walls and openings into other rooms. I found that only two of my corners needed any help. Front left on the floor, and right back on the ceiling. The other corners were fine. My biggest problem was in the middle of the room, right behind the tv (between the speakers), from 4 feet high up to the ceiling.

This example has no bearing on your room. It only serves as an example that you won't know it until you take some measurements. Even without measurements, definately check out the architectural forum for more information.

Also keep in mind, standard fiberglass panels don't do much below 100hz, and almost nothing as you drop below 80hz.

[xdetroitx]

The Foam Factory it tis...

Glenn-what is the name of that company, located in MI, that produces the (foam?)? I remember reading about them in one of the threads on the forum but cannot recall the name of the company.

Thanks!

-David

PS Hmm, is it "Foam Factory?"

[dkp]

The Foam Factory it tis...

Glenn-what is the name of that company, located in MI, that produces the (foam?)? I remember reading about them in one of the threads on the forum but cannot recall the name of the company.

Thanks!

-David

PS Hmm, is it "Foam Factory?"

Thanks!

[picky]

dkp: Actually, I wasn't aware of the Foam Factory. I have dealt with Memtech, Inc in Plymouth. They carry a lot of different items and they are a Illbruck / Sonex dealer. I purchased my Sonex Harmoni ceiling from them. Their contact's name is Dick Conroy, 800-634-4471

Memtech, Inc. : http://www.quietnoise.com/ Their architectural products: http://www.memtechacoustical.com/illbruck/noise-control/architecture.htm ProSpec barrier membrane: http://www.quietnoise.com/blocking.htmhttp://www.quietnoise.com/composite.htm'>

[dkp]

dkp: Actually, I wasn't aware of the Foam Factory. I have dealt with Memtech, Inc in Plymouth. They carry a lot of different items and they are a Illbruck / Sonex dealer. I purchased my Sonex Harmoni ceiling from them. Their contact's name is Dick Conroy, 800-634-4471

Memtech, Inc. : http://www.quietnoise.com/ Their architectural products: http://www.memtechacoustical.com/illbruck/noise-control/architecture.htm ProSpec barrier membrane: http://www.quietnoise.com/blocking.htmhttp://www.quietnoise.com/composite.htm'>

Just saw this; thanks, picky!

David

[consistent]

Hi

I had to treat my room which is 16 x 13 x 8.5 (ceiling), the bottom end of the Khorns was too big for the little room. It has 'perfect corners'. I built all the traps and deflectors myself using information that I pulled from the net including a Room Mode Calculator by Allan Devantier. There are also others as well as CAD kits (CD) you can buy to assist. It worked the room was 'tamed' and I kept some 'liveliness' by not over treating top end reflections. You can can simply test this by walking around your room clapping your hands an listening to 'slap back'.

Cheers

Steve

[wuzzzer]

I put up several 12"x12"x2" wedge panels in my room as well as 24"x3"x3" corner blocks. It definitely made my room much less echoey. I put up 4 squares on the side walls to absord the first reflections, and in the upper rear corners of my room and in the front upper corners. I think the foam cost me about $65 shipped through foambymail.com and I still have several squares and a couple of corner blocks left over.

I could tell a nice difference in sound, smoother overall. I'm used to it right now but I guarantee that if someone came over and tore all of it down and then brought me in the room blindfolded I'd be able to tell.