Creative Peach Wireing and Amp Switcher Questions???? Separating TV from 2-Channel

[meagain]

If anyone can help my small brain work through this, I'd appreciate it. My goal is to create an amp-switching scenario to separate TV from the higher end audio since we don't have a dedicated HT or 2-channel room - everything is all mixed up together. My goal is to save tube life on my tube amps. I have a 5:1 setup - 2 pairs khorns with a cornwall center. The Peach's HT Bypass is used for TV/DVD. While I still want to watch some TV through the Tube amps (VRDs) like concerts on PBS, music critical HD shows, etc. I don't need to be wasteing tube life watching something like Countdown with Keith Olberman on MSNBC. Right? OK.... sooooo....

The initial thinking was an amp switcher (Niles DPS-1). What I don't like about this gadget is that it only allows up to 14g wire and that wire should be bare. I don't want to get into a wire debate, but I'm at 10-12g now and while I can stomach 14g for the TV piece, I'd rather not go smaller on the VRDs to be able to accommodate the Niles. I've been on the verge of buying/making speaker wire for a bit now and if I HAVE TO get this Niles - need to take this into account.

Mostly, my problem is this: I keep stareing at the Peach and it's selector switch and can't help but wonder if I'm missing an option here. My mind keeps thinking there must be some creative way to almost be able to use the Peach as some type of switcher to somehow toggle between my HK AVR and VRDs. I also have a Creek gadget for a remote which I think is really a preamp.

Is there any creative way I can use what I have to accomplish my goal? Some clever use of the Peach's Tape Loop/HT bypass, etc. etc? Or am I forced to buy a Niles amp switcher, new smaller 14g speakerwire, etc?

[Me Loves Khorns]

I have the same issues. The same room with tubes and ss.

I use the Niles switcher. Don't notice any problems with it. I too am running larger gage wire with my speakers. I got some little speaker plug in things from Radio Shack where you take the large gage wire, put it into them, it then narrows down to a smaller plug in. This then fits nicely into the back of the Niles. Otherwise, it would be rather hard to wire into the back of it. This has worked seamlessly. I too don't really want to be running my Mac amp just for watching TV news, etc.

Paul

[mark1101]

I had a similar situation and some of the frustrations and here's what I came up with. I forgot about it.

Tube amps and pre amps require warm up periods to sound their best, and do not enjoy the on/off cycles normally associated with watching TV here and there.

Get a repectable s/s HT receiver for the use of TV, DVDs and those concerts. It will sound marvelous and function fully for that use, especially with subs, and multi channel. They are not that expensive.

When you are ready for the 2 or 3 channel audiophile extended music listening experience, relish in the tube sound and have have the best of both worlds.

It's gotten so I only turn on my Peach and VRDs when I "have the time"...like weekends. They sound so much better after a few hours of being on.....and sometimes I only want to listen for awhile. That's when I turn on the HT and use the s/s.

Just MHO but trying to use the Peach and VRDs for HT or TV duty is simply a bad idea. Yes...it can be done with the fancy switch boxes and such, but look at all the issues you have. They are not made for that type of use.

[Chicago_Pete]

I had a similar situation and some of the frustrations and here's what I came up with.  I forgot about it.

Tube amps and pre amps require warm up periods to sound their best, and do not enjoy the on/off cycles normally associated with watching TV here and there.

Get a repectable s/s HT receiver for the use of TV, DVDs and those concerts.  It will sound marvelous and function fully for that use, especially with subs, and multi channel.  They are not that expensive.

When you are ready for the 2 or 3 channel audiophile extended music listening experience, relish in the tube sound and have have the best of both worlds.

It's gotten so I only turn on my Peach and VRDs when I "have the time"...like weekends.  They sound so much better after a few hours of being on.....and sometimes I only want to listen for awhile.  That's when I turn on the HT and use the s/s.

Just MHO but trying to use the Peach and VRDs for HT or TV duty is simply a bad idea.  Yes...it can be done with the fancy switch boxes and such, but look at all the issues you have.  They are not made for that type of use.

This is exactly what I did. Crappy Kenwood that makes you appreciate the good gear when you fire up the tubes. Plus the remote comes in handy for switching off the sound for incoming phone calls. Pete

[frankphess]

http://www.4electronicwarehouse.com/products/niles/ps-1.html?id=1519&utm_source=yahoomarketing&utm_campaign=niles&utm_medium=ppc

The link above is for the Niles "PS-1" which accepts RCA plugs to switch back and forth between sources or amplifiers, rather than speakers.

[meagain]

I'm confused how the PS-1 differs from the DPS-1.

PS-1 says....

Enables the connection of two audio sources into a single source input.

May be used to switch between any line-level sources

A and B are fully isolated

Tabletop unit

Gold-plated RCA connectors

2 audio 'sources' into a single source input?
Do amps fall into the category of "line level sources"?

Mark - Not being able to listen to the stuff on our computer, concerts on TV, music/concerts on DVD, Music on SACD & DVD-A through the better sounding amps for the main speakers - is beyond not an option.

[frankphess]

You have a mixed bag of an integrated receiver, a seperate preamp and seperate amplifiers. The PS-1 would be used to switch between a (let's say) seperate SS amp and a seperate tube amp, the PS-1 would switch between the two. You would need a seperate amplifier rather than using the amplifier section of the HT receiver. I don't see a good way to use the integrated amplifier for TV without disconnecting and reconnecting cables, whether it be interconnects or speaker cable.

[meagain]

Frank - I have no idea what you're talking about.
Maybe I'll call Niles to sort out the differences between these 2 gadgets.

I'm thinking....... If I wanted to have 3 scenarios... 1) 2-channel with tubes 2) Peach HT bypass for surround using tubes for mains 3) strictly AVR The Peach allows toggling between the first 2 options. Already have that. So a switchbox would go where in the system to get the 3rd option? I'd switch the Peach to HT bypass - then the switchbox to toggle between HT bypass and strictly AVR/HT receiver? Is that about right?

Me Loves Khorns - Could you describe a bit better these adapters you're using in the Niles? Are they perhaps the flexy banana type ends? It's really a shame Niles choose to limit the holes to 14g.

[mark1101]

What I suggested more or less was both options 1 and 3. You could use a switch box to switch the main 2 speakers from AVR to VRDs. You then would not use the Peach and VRDs at all unless you wanted 2 channel music listening.

I have found that for movies, TV, and concert DVDs, the AVR is the way to go over the Peach/VRD setup. I'm not saying the Peach/VRD combo doesn't sound good, I am saying that it is not optimal and most of that programming favors multi-channel anyhow + subs.

Separate systems sharing the speakers.

You could add a PWK mini box and feed it back into the AVR to power the center channel if you want 3 Ch.

I think you'd be tons happier and have far less problems. You also would not be misapplying the VRDs.

[Coytee]

I don't need to be wasteing tube life watching something like Countdown with Keith Olberman on MSNBC.

This might be a shocker but when I'm listening to music or dvd concerts, I'm playing through the Peach/McIntosh/Jubilees. Sometimes when I watch the news, I listen through the same (TV is plumbed through the Peach)

There ARE times I don't want to have the house heater on (McIntosh) and quite shockingly, I listen to the TV speakers!!

[]

[meagain]

What I suggested more or less was both options 1 and 3. You could use a switch box to switch the main 2 speakers from AVR to VRDs. You then would not use the Peach and VRDs at all unless you wanted 2 channel music listening.

I have found that for movies, TV, and concert DVDs, the AVR is the way to go over the Peach/VRD setup. I'm not saying the Peach/VRD combo doesn't sound good, I am saying that it is not optimal and most of that programming favors multi-channel anyhow + subs.

Separate systems sharing the speakers.

You could add a PWK mini box and feed it back into the AVR to power the center channel if you want 3 Ch.

I think you'd be tons happier and have far less problems. You also would not be misapplying the VRDs.

Mark - The concept of purposefully listening to music through lesser quality gear while better sounding gear sits right next to it collecting dust is so incredulous to me that it's hard for me to even form a response here. LOL You must have a super-killer high end AVR?

[frankphess]

Frank - I have no idea what you're talking about.

Maybe I'll call Niles to sort out the differences between these 2 gadgets.

I'm thinking....... If I wanted to have 3 scenarios... 1) 2-channel with tubes 2) Peach HT bypass for surround using tubes for mains 3) strictly AVR The Peach allows toggling between the first 2 options. Already have that. So a switchbox would go where in the system to get the 3rd option? I'd switch the Peach to HT bypass - then the switchbox to toggle between HT bypass and strictly AVR/HT receiver? Is that about right?

Me Loves Khorns - Could you describe a bit better these adapters you're using in the Niles? Are they perhaps the flexy banana type ends? It's really a shame Niles choose to limit the holes to 14g.

The problem is option 3 - You can not have "strictly AVR" because your AVR (& your speakers ) are going through your Peach and VRD's. Now if you had a seperate outboard amplifier for use with "strictly AVR" - that's what the PS-1 would switch between. Because you're using your preamp out from your receiver, your AVR amplifier section is not being used. In order to use your AVR, you would need to run a seperate set of speaker wires from AVR to the speakers and disconnect the preouts, or get ANOTHER amplifier to utilize the PS-1. E-mail me and I'll send you my phone number if you'd like to discuss over the phone. It's a little difficult to get across in print. Frank.p.hess@sargentlundy.com

[mark1101]

Meagain, you don't get out much do you? I love my VRDs but they are not the best sounding amps on earth. There's a ton of AVR units that sound better with the media you mention, plus have the proper multi channel capabilities to decode the original signal and produce the intended effect, 5 or 7.1.

Are you kidding me? You would rather watch a concert DVD or a movie DVD in 2 Ch with a tube amp, than 5 or 7.1? It does not take a high end AVR to best the VRDs for that experience.

I also forgot to mention my 2-3 ch system consists of Khorns and a center channel cornwall with Peach / VRD. My HT consists of 2 Jubilee clones and 3 LasCalas, plus 2 Velodyne subs.

If you came over to my house you would understand. I would never WASTE my VRDs for TV. You have exactly the opposite feeling. I have no problem with that at all.

[Coytee]

I also forgot to mention my 2-3 ch system consists of Khorns and a center channel cornwall with Peach / VRD. My HT consists of 2 Jubilee clones and 3 LasCalas, plus 2 Velodyne subs

Sounds like a bunch of plug ugly boxy stuff to me!

Now that I've just killed it's market value by letting the secret out, I'll happily take it all off your hands for $100.... it's my final (and quite generous I might add) offer!

[A]

[mark1101]

Just so long as I get to keep my Denon AVR so I won't have to use my VRDs to hear concert DVDs.....and you have a deal.

[meagain]

Frank - So if I had a separate little amp - then I can pull off whatever you're suggesting? If so, wonder if one of those cute, small, cheap digital amps might help me. I'll PM/email you after I get done with Mark.

Mark - I'm not listening to DVD concerts, etc. in 2 channel. I have an AVR (Harman Kardon). The music comes out of my 4 khorns and 1 cornwall - Right?. The only difference here, and why the Peach is so cool, is that out of the 5 speakers, the 2-mains are going through the VRDs. The 2 speakers that have the most stuff coming out of them. The rest of the speakers are driven by the AVR. Because most of the music comes out of the mains that's powered by the VRDs, this 5:1 situation sounds far better to me than driving all 5 via the AVR.

I knew enough before buying this stuff that a tube preamp with a method to do this like the Peach's HT bypass mode - was a desireable thing to have. Also have the TV rack's computer iTunes thru the VRDs. Further, there are times when I just want to select 2-channel stereo on a concert DVD - then it can go thru the VRDs solely but bypasses the Peach pre.

Have you not run your HT bypass in this fashion? It's awesome.

[frankphess]

Correct, if you had a seperate little amp, you would use that for "normal" television. You could then switch back and forth with the PS-1 between your tubes and the digital (or SS), thus saving your tube amps from being used during "normal" TV.

[mark1101]

After rereading earlier posts I fgured out that you did have 5.1. Sorry. But no, I never considered using the VRDs for the fronts and AVR for the rest. In my HT most of the sound actually comes out the center. As awesome as my speaker line up in my HT is......it's a bit disappointing to hear most everything come out the center, some come out the L/R, and next to nothing come out the rears. But that's HT, and I would rather save my tube equipment for critical music listening. I would just never listen to a concert DVD in 2 Ch with my VRDs.

The other issue is that the ALK Jr. networks in my LaScalas lend themselves very well to the dynamics of DVDs and HT in general. I have ES networks in my Khorns for music listening purposes. They are not optimized for HT sound.

I'm fortunate to have the opportunity to have separate systems as I mention....and I do consider it an opportunity. If I was forced to have only one system for everything....all the tube equipment would be sold instantly and I would get a high end s/s AVR system and be done with it.

I absolutely love tubes for music listening, but that's as far as my need for tubes goes.

[meagain]

I see no distinction between music from a concert DVD to your "HT sound". To me, it matters not what the format is - I want ANY music to sound it's best. I have concert DVDs that blow away 80% of my music collection soundwise. They have the option of 2-ch stereo vs. surround in the menu option - different mixes. I see no point to running them thru a lesser quality amp that might detract on the sound just because they are called a 'DVD or SACD or DVD-A' etc. I also don't understand why critical listening doesn't apply to this stuff. Certainly I want to listen to them through the best gear I own.

Frank - I'm heading out for a bit and will email you when I get back.

[NOSValves]

I have the same issues. The same room with tubes and ss.

I use the Niles switcher. Don't notice any problems with it. I too am running larger gage wire with my speakers. I got some little speaker plug in things from Radio Shack where you take the large gage wire, put it into them, it then narrows down to a smaller plug in. This then fits nicely into the back of the Niles. Otherwise, it would be rather hard to wire into the back of it. This has worked seamlessly. I too don't really want to be running my Mac amp just for watching TV news, etc.

Paul

Bingo problem solved..

I bet this is what he is referring too

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2470644&cp=2032058.2032231&cp=2032058&f=Taxonomy%2FRSK%2F2032231&categoryId=2032231&kwCatId=2032058&kw=speaker+termination&parentPage=search

So you buy the Niles amp switcher and terminate the ends of 12 gage wire with these to allow the use of the larger wire in the Niles switcher.

Craig