Questions on Heritage HT Setup

[dtel's wife]

If you want pics of how our Forte IIs are mounted to the rear wall let us know and we can post a few. Dtel built the brackets himself![H]

[shinerman]

Dtel's wife,

That would be great, would love to see how you guys mounted the forte's to the wall. I assume Dtel make the brackets from metal?

Jack,

Those are footballs (incased in glass) on top of the belles. I'm in Amarillo, but did live in your neck of the woods about 10 years ago (VIctoria).

[dtel]

Nice looking room, nice color also.

The brackets are ugly but work, the space I had did not give me much choice. There is nowhere else for speakers for rear or sides. I mounted them at that angle because the seating is under and just in front where they are pointing. Also I did not want to see them when you walk in the front door, about 16' behind that beam and pole. I would have angled them a little more forward but that would have put them lower where you would see them from everywhere. Many people don't notice them when they walk into the room, until the look back, the ceiling by the speakers ia 10' high.

[oldbuckster]

WOW, Double WOW, damn fine room you have there !!!!!!!!!!!!!! A few Guitar Greats on the wall ....... EH! Lucky Man, indeed..

[dtel]

Other side of that room 18' deep 24' wide, to give you an idea how 6 Fortes and 2 Cornwall lll's are set, for now at least.

[dtel]

Almost forgot that box in the corner is a 5 CF sub, and Grandsons WII in the middle of the floor.

[shinerman]

dtel,

Thanks for showing how you mounted the forte's. What gauge of metal did you use for the brackets? Did you just screw brackets into the studs and then just lay the speakers into the brackets?

Buckster,

Thanks, this room has been in the works for the last 8 months and I'm just now gettin to play, but havin lots of fun!!!!

[oldbuckster]

You are a VERY LUCKY MAN.....Enjoy...Sweet Equipment, some of you guys are in a whole different league than myself ...WOW !!!

[dtel]

"Thanks for showing how you mounted the forte's. What gauge of metal did you use for the brackets? Did you just screw brackets into the studs and then just lay the speakers into the brackets?"

1/4", Yes screwed into the wood, That was an original wall, when the addition was added I put a 2" x 12" on each side of the wall with the old studs in between to make a beam, the brackets are connected to that with 3" lag bolts. One set is actually bolted a little to close to the ceiling, when I slid the Forte ll in there ( with help ) it scratched a line in the ceiling ! Will fix it someday!

[oldbuckster]

Ol' dtel has a nice set-up too............Lucky Guy, and a tractor too........

[dtximages]

This is for the original post. First of all, I like the way you ahve it set up but i would use the khorns as my main two channels and the belle in the center. Use only two corns for surrounds... take your other corns and play with them elsewhere. i dont think you need four 100+ lb speakers for surround.. waste of good sound to me.

I would also remove those two subwoofer looking things next to the bell in the center. location is probably bad and theres no way they can keep up with any of your speakers. i say trash them and get a huge sub and hide it in the best sounding position. remember, sub position can make or break your sound. there are certain locations were you will not even hardly know the sub is on so be careful... my suggestion is to hook only your sub up and set it on your couch in your listening position.. walk around the room and find the sweetspots (where the bass sounds the best) and try to use one of those locations for your sub.

good luck

if that doenst work i would probably sell all the speakers to me. that has worked best for most people i know

[IndyKlipschFan]

The only real problem is you have Bobby Knight to deal with. I loved him as a coach.... much less desireable as a person. It is a shame, he was soo different depending on the situation!

Fantastic room, I bet people drool too!

[jmdore]

I'm a relative newcomer to the forum, started a couple of threads (Khorns in a HT vs the Ultra2s, HT Guidance...) for which the responses were infrmative and helpful, and even was potentially "blasphemous" (perpas ignorant is a better charaterizaion at that point) by suggesting in one thread that I look for a single Belle for use as a center channel in a HT setup. That said (please help):

1) I am the original owner of Khorns (WO, year is W =~1982?) and "can't" part with them (all original, never upgraded).

2) I have come accross a pair of Belle's (WL, year is T=~1979) in NJ (I'm near Chicago) for $1,600 (blanket wrapped, not boxed or crated) delivered to me (presumably (from pictures) all original AA crossovers, K77, K55V - woofer unkown: same as my Khorns). From pictures, they appear to be in pretty good shape (edge veneer on one side of one speaker likely needs to be replaced, edge veneer near one corner looks like it has a ~1" light scrape on the edge).

3) Don't know the seller (not orginal owner) though the email dialogue has been friendly and straightforward - noting that NJ is a long ride... Is this a fair price? Any suggestions how to get greater comfort (we have not yet discussed the mechanics of payment). Note that I posted a wanted ad in Audiogon as per the suggestion in another thread here (yes it is still running), and the prospective seller responded to the ad.

4) Even if I get comfort with the above, is the Belle the best way to go for a center channel? Is it practical to place 2 side by side (I don't have room elsewhere for the 2nd Belle) and use both as centers (room is ~165" wide - the Khorns are in the corners; Belles effectively would be recessed into the wall and would not be in the direct sound path of the Khorns)?

5) Should I otherwise look at a La Scalla or a La Scalla II? Which of the three (including the Belle) is the best timbre match?

6) As I complete the speaker setup (7.1 is the goal) would the Ultra2 selections (4 KS or 2 KL and 2 KS) for sides and rears be a mismatch (I must hang speaker on the wall - so cornwalls are out, and heresy's may prove too bulky as well)?

7) In the alternative, should I skip the Belle, the La Scalla, the La Scalla II, and go with an RC-64 and RS-62's for the surrounds and rears (or RC-7 and RS-7 if I can find used at a decent price?

8) Will the Ultra2 subs with the KA amp work well with the Heritage?

9) Is it completely crazy to think in terms of the Ultra2 system down the road in addition to the Khorns and Belle/La Scalla (looking at the history, seems like PWK personally had a 3 channel stereo setup)?

I'm all over the map as to what I want to do and what I should do - but I've caught the bug. While I am not in a rush per se, I would like to make signficant progress before the end of the year (though I may have to do it piecemeal over time relative to my initial intentions).

BTW - I've been to Best Buy, Tweeter, Barretts, Sounds Deluxe, Audio Consultants and the Little Guys over the last 2 weeks. While the last 4 all have credible set-ups, the Little Guys are the only ones that had either the Hertitage line (setup primarily for stereo) and the Ultra2s (setup in a HT) in separate rooms. Wow - it was like a Klipsh nirvana - both sounded great. At this point though, which set up do you guys think is best primarily for movies?

Looking forward to some input.

[DrWho]

How big is your room?

A Belle center and the Ultra2 subs would work very well. I think the choice for surrounds will depend on the size and layout of your room. Something like a Heresy might work well, but only if you're not sitting like 2 ft away from them.

[jmdore]

To paint an image - I'll call the walls A, B, C and D. A and C are 165", while B and D are 208". A has a 98" wide, 24" deep inset - centered between walls B and D. Therefore the length of the room effectively becomes 232" when measured from A to C by a line centered between B and D. Note that I tried to maximize room dimensions in part due to placement of stairs adjacent to the room, support poles for the structure above, access to the electric and low-voltage panels... The door (opted for 48 double doors) placement had to be on B, near A. I placed 7" (48" deep) risers running the width of the room (165") 136" from A and again 184" from A, and installed 4 (closer row) and 5 (deeper row) stadium style seats on each of the risers. Viewing distance for the closer seats will be ~170" from A, while the second row is ~218" (leaving the heads ~14 inches from D).<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

While this second row would be used by friends of my kids (therefore I am less concerned about their experience), I am nonetheless concerned about the rear speaker placement and selection (likely place ~2 above the heads, and inclined to go with the WDST KS 525s vs the direct firing Heresy or 650/525 LCR THXs). In addition, I plan on acoustical treatments, but thought it premature to do so until everything else is determined and installed. That said, I am still open to surround and rear speaker suggestions.

Note also that I considered placing the Khorns on the long wall (and knew it would likely be better for sound), but ultimately went in the other direction - may have been a mistake, but... due to the door placement (limited choice due to load bearing supports), if I had placed the khorns on the long wall, I would have had to forgo the risers, or at least changed the seating configuration dramatically such that the seating likely would have been quite awkward.

Interesting that you prefer the Belle in this setup to the LaScala (I or II).

FYI Im the guy from <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Naperville.

[DrWho]

Well....the lascala II is probably better than the belle, but the differences aren't going to be huge. I thought you had a good deal on the Belle and then many people prefer them for their aesthetitc value.

In fact, if money were no concern I might suggest going with three LaScala II's up front as long as your subwoofage was potent enough to keep up. In my opinion, the khorn sacrifices some midbass performance in exchange for its lower frequency extension. If you can crossover at 80Hz (which you should do anyway for movies), then the low frequency extension is really wasted performance and the midbass performance becomes more critical. This would also make the positioning and toe-in of your mains more flexible since the lascala isn't forced to a 45 degree angle in the corner.

It is often less expensive to consider acoustical treatment during the design stage since it can be incorporated into the construction.

[IndyKlipschFan]

I will double what Doc said.. The 3 scala's up front are wonderfull, and more flexible than say a K horn. (You can turn them in, (toe) and not wall dependent.) You can get a fantastic sub(s) in the THX KSW 120 and KA 1000 amp combo.. I have this at home, and it is a marriage made in heaven!

Make sure the three up front are the same.. Timbre is important in movies/ HDTV action.

[zork52]

To comment on your sig quote. If you're wife looks as good ( OR BETTER , DON'T FORGET BETTER ) then you're all set. I've only got 2 Khorns for the front.

[Frzninvt]

Stick with the Klipschorn's, get the Belle's to use one at center, sell the additional one (always someone looking for a single Belle for center use), use the recouped funds to purchase four (4) Heresy's for the rear. Please god don't ruin a good Heritage HT by putting those nasty soundspraying echo box XS-XX series speakers - talk about ruining the timbre' of a system.

I have tried a large number of Heritage combinations before settling on my current arrangement. I have been there.

[DrWho]

It takes about 10 feet for the sound from each driver in the heresy to

converge into a single coherant wavefront. A wide dispersion speaker is

going to have much greater intelligibility in the nearfield and a more

cohesive sound. It is absolutely a decision that must be made based on

the acoustical situation of the room in question.

Also, mounting a speaker in a different position in the room

automatically changes the timbre - by a huge magnitude actually. So any

arguments of perfect timbre matching - especially for a surround

speaker mounted up high - are theoretical at best. In other words, I

think many would be surprised by how well the Ultra2 series surrounds

mate with Heritage up front...

(in fact, didn't Boomac replace his Heresy with the KS-525?)