wuzzzer Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 I currently have the SVS PC 16-46+ subwoofer. Incredible low frequency response. Movies like War of the Worlds literally have the ceiling in my basement theater shaking. I've never experienced another subwoofer with the output the SVS has at low, low frequencies. Since its tuned to 16Hz, it doesn't do quite as well in the upper frequencies of bass however. There's an RSW-15 for sale nearby. I see that Klipsch rates it at 19Hz and up. I would think that the Klipsch sub would be a better choice to bring out more bass in music especially. I do listen to a lot of music in addition to the movies I watch. If you had the choice, which one would you choose and why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 lately I think I would go for more punch than depth, mainly because I listen to 90% music and 10% movies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted October 5, 2007 Share Posted October 5, 2007 I had an svs powered cylinder,nice company but sub not musical,imo.I sent it back and got the rsw 15,been happy ever since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted October 5, 2007 Author Share Posted October 5, 2007 Cool. If I can get a good deal on it I'll do it. It would be nice having something that doesn't resemble a giant water heater in the corner of the room too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Well the RSW-15 isn't exactly a small sub either... I would also probably go with the RSW-15. Larger radiating surface area means less cone movement which means less distortion. Also, passive radiators are far more linear than ports - so even less distortion. The difference between 16Hz and 19Hz is really going to be inaudible... But theory aside...I've had the opportunity to hear quite a few of the SVS offerings. While they all certainly sound good, I don't think they sound as refined as companies like Klipsch or Velodyne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arky Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 But theory aside...I've had the opportunity to hear quite a few of the SVS offerings. While they all certainly sound good, I don't think they sound as refined as companies like Klipsch or Velodyne. Doc: Are you talking musically here? I have a 2039+ with the upgraded driver, which I really like, but have been thinking of trying something different for DVD concert purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 I don't usually like to draw a distinction between "musical" and "not musical" because really all that matters is that the speaker faithfully reproduce the input signal. That said, you can usually get away with less refinement on movies because it's more about the explosion factor and really - who knows how the sound effects are supposed to sound? The Klipsch RSW-15 and Ultra2 subwoofer systems are both fantastic for DVD concerts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arky Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Thanks, I thought that's where you were going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAS Posted October 6, 2007 Share Posted October 6, 2007 Well the RSW-15 isn't exactly a small sub either... The difference between 16Hz and 19Hz is really going to be inaudible... Actually the 16-46+ is capable of deeper than 16 and the RSW-15 I'd more realistically quote closer to 25. The output of the 15 will be greater but the 16-46 will be audibly more capable at the subsonic. If you have material with lots of near to subsonic info then you'll hear the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted October 6, 2007 Author Share Posted October 6, 2007 I do like the subsonic capabilities of the SVS. That being said, I do also really like the slam or punch of a bass drum and a sub that can really pound you in the chest. I wonder if my wife would notice if I got the RSW-15 and kept the SVS too. [6] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 For what it's worth, the only RSW-15 I've measured has an F3 of 19Hz in room. Though it was a smaller HT, I think it is somewhat representative of what might be expected in an average listening environment (basically it wasn't a perfectly sealed room). The Ultra2's are good to about 24Hz ish - but still have decent output down to 16Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 HERE is an old article that is really fond of the RSW15's performance as a musical sub. The only SVS I have heard was a 20-39 (not sure which exact model, though) and I remember being very impressed with its low-end movie performance. But when the guy demoed some music on it, he turned the sub up to get it to perform reasonably in the range more commonly encountered in music, which, of course, made it very boomy for certain passages. Personally, I love my RSW15 for music, but I use it at least 95% of the time for that. I've never been watching a movie and thought to myself "gee, I wish my sub would go lower". But, I don't usually watch very many low-end effects laden movies. I find that there is almost an inverse proportionality between the low-end subwoofer "wow!" of a movie versus its overall quality. [] I watch a movie for the emotional experience, not for its bass (although, I admit that bass CAN add to the emotional experience). And, unlike the article in that link, I've measured my subwoofer in 3 different locations in 2 different homes, and it actually measures higher at 25Hz than at 30Hz, but it falls off fairly steeply at 22Hz and precipitously at 19Hz. I think there must be a brick-wall subsonic filter @ 19Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 oops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 "The output of the 15 will be greater but the 16-46 will be audibly morecapable at the subsonic. If you have material with lots of near tosubsonic info then you'll hear the difference." More like FEEL the difference. Unless you have ridiculously high spl's you cannot hear low bass ( in the region you suggest ). Any bass you might hear is second and third harmonics. For example a 22 hz fundamental, with the subwoofer generating overtones at 44 and 88 hz. How do I know? I can generate better than 135 db at 20 cps in my car. I can hear a 14 hz sinewave BARELY at very high amplitudes .... but I can sure feel it shake the lower mounting of the seat. 10 hz.... ridiculous shaking. This is with a large high displacement driver ( 15" TC Sounds TC 3000 ) and a lot of power. For most music, as long as a subwoofer has relatively flat output with power at 23-25 hz, that will do most all music justice. Movie special effects is a whole other ball of wax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted October 7, 2007 Moderators Share Posted October 7, 2007 "The output of the 15 will be greater but the 16-46 will be audibly more capable at the subsonic. If you have material with lots of near to subsonic info then you'll hear the difference." More like FEEL the difference. Unless you have ridiculously high spl's you cannot hear low bass ( in the region you suggest ). Any bass you might hear is second and third harmonics. For example a 22 hz fundamental, with the subwoofer generating overtones at 44 and 88 hz. How do I know? I can generate better than 135 db at 20 cps in my car. I can hear a 14 hz sinewave BARELY at very high amplitudes .... but I can sure feel it shake the lower mounting of the seat. 10 hz.... ridiculous shaking. This is with a large high displacement driver ( 15" TC Sounds TC 3000 ) and a lot of power. For most music, as long as a subwoofer has relatively flat output with power at 23-25 hz, that will do most all music justice. Movie special effects is a whole other ball of wax. I have no doubt he can generate 135 db at 20 cps in his car ! [:|] Ever sit in one of them high power massage chairs, well that has nothing on his car ! It was not really loud but it was there, you can feel it all the way through your body. It kind of messes with your inner ear or something, I could still feel the effect 30 minutes later, no [bs] . You could torture people if you were to lock them in there for a long time. When I got out of his car I told him " You are not normal ! ", he just smiled []. I think he really just uses it to shake the snow off his car in the winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAS Posted October 7, 2007 Share Posted October 7, 2007 More like FEEL the difference. Of course.....what I intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted October 8, 2007 Author Share Posted October 8, 2007 Thanks for all the input and sivadselim thanks for the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 The only SVS I have heard was a 20-39 (not sure which exact model, though) and I remember being very impressed with its low-end movie performance. But when the guy demoed some music on it, he turned the sub up to get it to perform reasonably in the range more commonly encountered in music, which, of course, made it very boomy for certain passages. You guys can debate which sub you like all you like, but I am fascinated by the above statement! Is this in comparison to the level he set for movies and explosions? If so, I would say that you would definitely hear some boom! Levels for music are typically lower than for explosions in a home theater! In fact, with a properly balanced sub level, you won't even know its there until there is actual material that extends below the reproductive limits of the rest of the system. It simply augments the frequency reproduction, it is not meant to EQ the system! If the above is the manner in which you are listening to the sub, you would want the sub that sounds better with explosions. Forget the more 'musical' (read "accurate") sub! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 The only SVS I have heard was a 20-39 (not sure which exact model, though) and I remember being very impressed with its low-end movie performance. But when the guy demoed some music on it, he turned the sub up to get it to perform reasonably in the range more commonly encountered in music, which, of course, made it very boomy for certain passages. You guys can debate which sub you like all you like, but I am fascinated by the above statement! Is this in comparison to the level he set for movies and explosions? If so, I would say that you would definitely hear some boom! Levels for music are typically lower than for explosions in a home theater! In fact, with a properly balanced sub level, you won't even know its there until there is actual material that extends below the reproductive limits of the rest of the system. It simply augments the frequency reproduction, it is not meant to EQ the system! If the above is the manner in which you are listening to the sub, you would want the sub that sounds better with explosions. Forget the more 'musical' (read "accurate") sub! Yes, this is how the sub was demoed to me. My point was that the sub, when adjusted (not sure whether he calibrated it or not) properly for movies, lacked output and performed poorly in the upper ranges more often encountered with music. This is why the guy turned it up for music listening. How far did he turn it up? I have no idea, but he knew where he liked it to be set for movies vs. music. I also have no idea what sort of crossover setting he used in his AVR (or his sub, if that was how his stuff was connected). Hearing this friend of a friend's system's movie performance was actually the beginning of my finally considering upgrading my old Pro-Logic receiver and buying a new matching 5.1 set of speakers and a subwoofer in the first place. Perhaps a sub that is flat to 20Hz, but doesn't perform well around the crossover setting and above is not the best sub for music. Perhaps subs that are "musical" are not flat, but instead "peaky" (as the article I posted a link to calls it) in the upper ranges. But if a subwoofer is crossed in at the typical 80Hz, you SHOULD hear it perform with music from there down to at least an octave (40Hz) below that. The low "E" string on a bass guitar is ~41Hz. There IS a lot going on in music in the octave from 40Hz to 80Hz. A subwoofer that's crossed in at 80Hz and is capable of it will also still have significant output within the octave above (160Hz) the 80Hz crossover setting, too. It doesn't surprise me at all that a 16-46 (which is tuned to 16Hz) is not very articulate within the range that's around an octave on either side of an 80Hz crossover setting. Wuzzzer's not the first person to complain about a bottom-feeding sub not being very "musical". A sub may be flat with a sine wave from 120Hz down to 20Hz but that says nothing about how articulate that sub will be at 60Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laneza01 Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 just keep em both. you can't have to much bass. and i know, cancellation and all that yada yada, find a way to make it work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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