Vahorns Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 To Big Mike--- I indeed have made the rounds at Summit Point, with the Potomac Region members of the Porsche Club of America. Ran both of my Porsches there many times. I got tired of taking a 2nd mortgage to pay for the Porsche name on the parts that broke! That 92 you have sounds great. I autocrossed for many years, with my RX-7, both Porsches, even a fully prepared class 1972 Ford Pinto with the 2 liter German overhead cam motor. I also raced a 1988+1997 Civic, and a couple of muscle cars, including a 1970 Plymouth Duster 340 (don't laugh), a 1987 Camaro 5.7 liter Iroc-Z, and a bunch of others including a 1987 5.0 liter Mustang "stripper" no-options, police sedan. The Mustang was great fun for small $$$. I know of one 1969 PLymouth Valiant with a well-built 360, a 4 speed overdrive, a well-sorted suspension / brake package that has finished in the top 3-4 of the One Lap of America, and eclipses top end speeds of 168+ MPH! The car is real, and built with good old, cheap American, MOPAR factory parts throughout! Real basic, simple, and incredibly balanced! The guys with the M5s (modded) and M3s snicker, until they try to hang with this car! Drag strip = 11.5 ETs at about 119; Top end = 170+; Brakes are factory 12+" rotors and Chrysler Imperial discs in the rear. I have a good friend who recently (right after Christmas) took delivery of a 2002 Z06, black/black. I drove it; it is incredible, in the turns and in the straights. The engine revs to redline incredibly fast. His 1st pass at the strip yielded 12.19/118 MPH with POOR traction, and a POOR driver! NO MODS! Car had less than 1,000 miles total. I wish I could afford a new Vette but I may have to hold off, rather to build a new Klipsch home theater setup! I mean no disrespect to the young car enthusiasts, and their passion for imports. I think it is great that the car scene is back, after all the crap thrown at us in the '70s and '80s, i.e. emissions, engine management compromises, heavy bumpers, etc. But the law of physics are undeniable. Torque moves mass, and thats what the street driving is all about. Try moving an 18 wheeler with a small displacement overhead cam wonder...Try moving a cement truck or a bus with a low torque 4 cylinder...Its all about torque thats where the body gets crushed to the car's seat! There is incredible mis-information out there in the younger car buff community about the importance of torque to street driveability. They need to try it, and I am certain they will LIKE it! I understand most of the import buffs buy these cars because they fit the car insurance profile/up-front cost profile, that these guys/gals can afford. But it would be nice if they tried the big V-8/V-10 torque before condemning these, and thinking that hi-tech will outdo real muscle. The Chrysler Hemi in its current form, has been with us since its re-introduction in 1964 at the 1964 Daytona 500. This motor has the perfect cylinder combustion chamber geometry, and produces the most power of all mass production engines. Even mildly tuned versions of these engines produce upwards of 900+ horsepower totally reliably, in normally aspirated form ( NO TURBO, NO SUPERCHARGER, NO NOX). All throttle with NO bottle! Remember these engines DID NOT have to consider things like the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards, emissions or cost. It was designed without restrictions of today, and produced for 1 purpose, to make the most power. I think today's technology is incredible, i.e. the GM LS1 engine family is tremendous, with its ability to make gobs of power while meeting emissions and CAFE requirements. In fact, the LS1 engineers said the HEMI was part of the reference std. that they used, when they started with the clean sheet of paper. I love high-performance cars, especially German cars. But for bang-for-the-buck, it is impossible to beat good old American horsepower / torque. I'll take a new generation Vette or Viper anyday against what the world has to offer. With very few mods, these cars hang with the exotics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted February 5, 2002 Share Posted February 5, 2002 Vahorns, Another excellent post! I would imagine you are familiar with Bill Love at OG Racing then? I have purchased a number of safety features from OG (helmets, harnesses, PFC pads, etc) and although pricey, they are pretty good people. I believe Bill is a member of the Potomac Region as well. I have a friend named Gary L'Hommedieu that raced a modified 914 at Summit all the time (he was a member of that club for a while too). Like you, I have been in love with German sportcars all my life. I have also been a vette fanatic most of my life too. I have been in Z06's as well, and they pull like a demon in 1st and 2nd gear. I will probably get one one day, but it will be awhile. Keep the shiny side up... Mike Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QUiKSR20 Posted February 6, 2002 Share Posted February 6, 2002 I know what you mean bang for the buck you cant beat good ole american cars i just dont like there style or anything about them they are good in there ways i know. Also im not one for street racing like i said i race at the track and have tons of friends who do ITS SCCA and also autocross etc all the guys at www.se-r.net are mostly road racers. I have felt the low end of vettes and mustangs my friend has a 96 cobra revs to 7k and hauls *** for what it is. runs 13.4s with mild bolt ons but in my opinion just my opinion i like the feel of my buddys 96 supra much better. Once he hits boost at like 3500 the souund is amazing and he literally destroys the cobra and it has under 1000 dollars in mods too it. The cobra has alot more but is NA but then again its also a 4.6 vs a 3.0TT to each his own there 2 diff beasts i just like imports hehehe but i give respect to muscle cars and like them too just wouldnt own one i dont think. Just for shits and giggles ill show you guys a pic of my buddys racecar we have been working on for some time its a 1993 FWD Nissan Sentra SE-R with the infamous SR20DE 2.0 4 banger motor which is in NA trim in the USA but the rest of the world gets it boosted this is our 3rd season coming up and the car put down 650WHP last year on boost. This year we are search for 700 to 750HP with some nos and hopefully some Front wheel drive 8 sec passes to date it has run 9.83@145mph Stock crank and block are holding up fine still. This is the Worlds Fastest SE-R and FWD Nissan for that matter.. Wish us luck this upcoming season The first picture is how it sits now getting ready for a one piece frontend and new turbo and intake manifold for this season the bottem is how it looked last year still 100% original street body etc smaller turbo and stock intake manifold. ------------------ Thanks, Daryl Gregg MY Home Theatre Page Sony STR-DE975 HT Reciever Sony DVP-NS400D DVD SB-3 Mains SC-1 Center Quintet Rears KSW-12 Sub AR Proseries Interconects This message has been edited by QUiKSR20 on 02-06-2002 at 10:48 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vahorns Posted February 6, 2002 Share Posted February 6, 2002 This is for Quik--- Good luck with the Se-R this year. Hope you improve on the Sentra record. It is a lot of time, $$$, effort running a competitive car, been there and done that. Just for the record...do some homework on the history of motorsports, and since the Sentra is used for the drags, look into the '60s - '70s era of NHRA. I think you will enjoy learning about what was going on in Detroit, with the horsepower race, without need to be concerned about fuel economy, emissions, etc. It was a golden era, where the massive big-block engines from Detroit ruled, and still do (read=Hemi). I've driven SE_R's from the early '90s (when they were new) and considered buying one. Just no low-end torque and thats what I like on the street. Supras are nice cars, especially the interiors. Quality piece 4 sure. But I like low-end torque... Get someone with either a 2001 or 2002 Z06 to give you a ride, at the track of your choice. Same with a Viper You better be ready to have your eyeballs pinned to the back of your skull! T-O-R_Q-U-E! The Z06 also happens to be a blast to autocross. The Ford Cobra in 1996 switched to a multi-cam, overhead cam arrangement (READ=NO LOW END TORQUE of note). The Cobra uses a 4-valve per cylinder layout with 4 cams (READ = VERY COMPLICATED, STill no low-end torque). These cars get walked on by "best bang for the buck" $20,000 GM f-bodies, namely Camaro Z/28s and Trans Ams, in STOCK (no modifications) form. 4-valve per cylinder/4 cam motors DO NOT MAKE great street machines, because they DO NOT MAKE excellent LOW-END, LOW-RPM torque. Thats why the Cobra is slow off the line, unless you rev the be-jesus out of the thing! And the race is basically over by the 60 foot mark in the quarter mile. Do some Research the importance of an engine's torque curve with respect to street driveability, acceleration without turbo lag/spooling, at speeds in the 0-30-75 MPH range. You will see why diesels are used in large cement trucks, 18 -wheelers, buses, etc. ITS ALL ABOUT TORQUE. Get a primer on mechanical engineering, thermodynamics, and SAE papers for specifics about the relationships of power, torque and horsepower. It is all about the flatest torque curve, developing maximum torque ratings at the lowest possible RPM, and maintaining that high torque rating to redline. Ford's answer comes in 2003 with the new Cobra with 390 horsepower and 390 lb/ft. of torque. The way they got there was with a Eaton Supercharger added to the car! In normally aspirated form (normally aspirated form = NO TURBO(s), NO SUPERCHARGER(s), NO NITROUS (NOX), the Dodge Viper for 2003 will make in factory Bone-stock form, in excess of 500 horsepower, more than 525 lb/ft. of TORQUE. FACTORY STOCK, NO TURBO, NO NOTHING! Try a well-tuned, old USA classic 2-valve big-block like a Chevy 454, any Chrysler Hemi or big -wedge. Thats where the fun is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QUiKSR20 Posted February 6, 2002 Share Posted February 6, 2002 I already know about the whole HP/TQ thing we SE-R guys have the argument on how its important with honda fans IE Type R 195HP 111lbs of TQ where our se-rs have a great TQ Curve for the size of there motors. 140HP 136TQ out of a turn with the LSD and TQ we can outmanuver alot of cars with simular hp. When you turbo an SE-R the HP AND TQ Curve are so flat you would swear it was a small block chevy when you look at the dyno charts. STOCK 1991 SE-Rs were as fast from the factory as some earlier Stang GTS running in at 15.3 or so in stock trim. My friends 1992 ran 15.2 w/intake and timing advanced. I knwo alot about early muscle cars and the whole TQ HP thing but thats not always true. I have seen ALL MOTOR INTEGRA TYPE RS with not much TQ smoke MUSTANGS AND F-BODYS its all HP to weight ratio when honda has over 200WHP motors in civics they will smoke a 300HP FBODY that has 300LBS of tq my friends type runs 12.7s full interiour not gutted all motor with slicks.. thats fast and respectable and yes i know musclue cars have it down low instead of at 8000 rpms but it only takes a split second to hit 8k the muscle car might get it off the line but the type r will reel him in real quick with the insane top end. ------------------ Thanks, Daryl Gregg MY Home Theatre Page Sony STR-DE975 HT Reciever Sony DVP-NS400D DVD SB-3 Mains SC-1 Center Quintet Rears KSW-12 Sub AR Proseries Interconects This message has been edited by QUiKSR20 on 02-06-2002 at 06:41 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QUiKSR20 Posted February 7, 2002 Share Posted February 7, 2002 Just for shits and giggles heres a pretty cool movie i found online from a supra meet its like 30 megs but worth it.. http://planetfishy.tvheaven.com/suprameet2001mtx.mpg Heres another http://www.notabusinessracing.org/videos/Greg%20vs%20Mustang.mpg Its a street stang racing a eagle talon.. ------------------ Thanks, Daryl Gregg MY Home Theatre Page Sony STR-DE975 HT Reciever Sony DVP-NS400D DVD SB-3 Mains SC-1 Center Quintet Rears KSW-12 Sub AR Proseries Interconects This message has been edited by QUiKSR20 on 02-07-2002 at 11:52 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vahorns Posted February 7, 2002 Share Posted February 7, 2002 QUIK--- The cars you mention are few and far between, basically stock Integras and SE-R's that can beat well-built 5.0 liter Mustangs (NOT 4.6 overhead cam cars) or F-bodies with the LS1s. The LS1 cars in my area (I'm in the Mid-Atlantic), depending on drivers ability, run in the low to mid 13s, BONE stock. Best drivers run with these cars can run upper 12s, BONE STOCK. NOTHING ADDED, GET IT? Lets even this out one last time. Did you check the NHRA records, and do the research I suggested? Did you check out the Chrysler HEMI's record? Did you notice that the HEMI is basic form, holds all the NHRA records in Top FUEL Eliminator class (the fastest ET class in the 1/4 mile). Powerful 4 cylinder cars have their places. Its called a road circuit. On the drag strip, I'll take a V-8 anytime, and the Top Fuel people agree... Have you checked NHRA Pro Stock? V-8 cars again... When you get that SE-R or any Japanese import consistently in the 4 second range in the quarter mile, let me know. I have a couple of buddies in my area running Top Fuel rails that will want to run you at an NHRA sanctioned event. On the street, I 'll stay with the VIPER BONE Stock, in its upcoming 2003 form. 525 horsepower, 525 torque at low RPM. Find me one stock Japanese whatever that can hang with a Viper...Come up with one yet? Find Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 7, 2002 Share Posted February 7, 2002 Say your racing brackets with this car, you move through all the 4 cylinder competition and either win your bracket or move on to the next bracket. Oh No! Your up against V8's now. Now the little sentra's gonna give some V8's a hell of a run to that trap and probably do pretty damn well, it is a 9 second car. But bottom line is, the sentra is gonna get shut down by a V8 eventually. Even if you managed to get in a lower time bracket, where they are giving you handicap, it is still gonna happen. (No offense.) But it sure as hell would be fun to watch, It's nice to read posts about people who race, Period. I like watching those Maniacs on the Drag Harleys. THANX! This message has been edited by mike stehr on 02-07-2002 at 10:17 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QUiKSR20 Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 This convo is going no wheres i know v8 records we arent talking funny cars.. were talking drag cars like if u goto the track to see mustangs vs camaros where the car hits its power peak at 5k for a muscle car or 8k an import ive seen it again and again. muscle cars beat imports. then imports beat muscle cars.. I never talked about hemis i rarely see them at the track there awesome motors. but when i goto the track for like F-Body day or muscle mustang day. the fastest cars there run what? 7s? 8s? when you goto an import event they run that too. ROTARYS and Twin turbo 6's whether nissan, toyota etc are hitting 7.0s at 180+ mphs now that tops the fastest cars i see at FBODY and mustang events. which are tubed etc. again IM NOT TALKING FUNNY CARS and even little puny 4 banger AWD eclipses ive seen spank stangs ever hear of Jeff Hill? search on google or anywhers for him. FULL INTERIOUR street driven DSM runs 9.9 on radials no slicks. Imports are still not v8s cant match low rpm power but for what they are they are holding there own and there V8 cars coming out spank american ones in power per liter realiability and better yet resale value. Theres no reason for u to get an attiude im just stating facts i have movies i can show u of my buddys SE-R spanking WS6's and STANGS just ask and ill show you. the tape doesnt lie. i know these cars are faster stock but a well equiped 4 or 6 can hang with the best of 8s on the street. Check this out.. this is what im use too.. http://www.z10eng.com/daryl/rvsstang5.asx ------------------ Thanks, Daryl Gregg MY Home Theatre Page Sony STR-DE975 HT Reciever Sony DVP-NS400D DVD SB-3 Mains SC-1 Center Quintet Rears KSW-12 Sub AR Proseries Interconects This message has been edited by QUiKSR20 on 02-08-2002 at 10:34 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vahorns Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 SE-Rs are good 4-cylinder platforms, I said that before, and as I stated, I almost bought one in 1992. I owned 2 different Rx-7s rotaries. Totally fun cars, but nothing in the low end. Regularly autocrossed both. Remember I said I drive on the street...if I want to go to the drag strip track, I'll hitch a ride with my friend's 7 second, full bodied 1968 Dodge Dart HEMI. If I want to start with a base package for the street, give me a Corvette Z06, or a Viper ACR. Plenty of kids in my neighborhood have the Civics, the Supras, the 300 Zx TT. In stock form they are total toast to the F-bodies, and a well-tuned 5.0. Even after adding superchargers or turbos the Civics still can't make it. The Supras is definitely the best of the bunch. But too much boost...then BOOM! 300ZX = the same. I appreciate the kids becoming car buffs, we need all we can get. I love the fact they like to mod the cars to their liking. But unfortunately, they did not have the advantage of growing up with engines that were developed by Detroit, when all that mattered was who made the most torque and horsepower, without any regard for fuel economy restrictions, or emissions restrictions, or the like. This was the power race by the Big 3 USA manufacturers through 1970. I have owned plenty of high-quality European and Japanese high-end cars, as I previously stated. They have many fine qualities. I raced two Porsches, a 356B and a 911. Loved both. But todays Z06...try that one out if you ever get the chance! Viper same thing... BTW the NHRA Winternationals out West is this weekend. Qualifying the past 2 days: 1) Top Fuel - 4.6 ET - engine = Chrysler HEMI;trap speed over 300 MPH 2) Funny Car - 4.7 ET - " "; trap speed over 310 MPH 3) Pro Stock - 6.8 ET - Chrysler HEMI/Chevy/all V-8s; I rest my case. I wish you nothing but the best with the SE-R. I'll take my chances on the street with American Iron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QUiKSR20 Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 Thanks vahorns.. best of luck with your cars too. I know those cars are fast i said that but i wasnt talking about funy or nitro cars.. Your right nothing can hang with those yet.. But imports are picking up fast and are in the 7.0 second range and imports have only been popular for racing for 5 years musclecars have been doing it for tons of years over 50 FWD cars are hittin 8.0s out of 2.2 liters of power. So were getting there.. But ill agree with you.. LOWEND On detroit iron is nice.. But ill be happy if i had a moderatley built supra with 800hp and 750tq even though its not the oposite way around.. either or are fast cars its just what you prefer. I personally almost bought an 88 stang gt out of high school. Nice car. I think we pounded this enought hahhah Now one thing we can agree on. KLIPSCH SPEAKERS ARE AWESOME and thats why were here hahah you definatly know what your talking about when it comes to cars too.. Its been a good car chat ------------------ Thanks, Daryl Gregg MY Home Theatre Page Sony STR-DE975 HT Reciever Sony DVP-NS400D DVD SB-3 Mains SC-1 Center Quintet Rears KSW-12 Sub AR Proseries Interconects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 So the neighbor kid lets me borrow this DVD. Colorful. I must have watched that damn R/T Mopar frame by frame 20 times. It looks like that car pulled that wheelie off the line But only did it for about 10,15 feet. They filmed the begining of the wheelie, then spliced in the phony assisted wheelie from the side, then the rest of the short wheelie the car did. Unless they did the CG cover-up trip, it looked real I could not tell otherwise. (Compared to the earlier street races in the movies, which looked really phony.) But it looks weird, because the wheels go up, but yet the ***-end of the car isn't planted yet, then it seems to plant. I geuss you could pop the front end up, and double clutch and play with second and try to keep a wheelie, like on a bike. The train stunt curiously reminded of 'Dirty Mary Crazy Larry' but their Charger didn't make that Train. That movie, you root for 'em through the whole flick, they finally get away, and then they drive into a train at 90.(typical 70's flick.) That crash at the end wasn't phony, except where they used a ramp when he hit the truck. No CG there, you can see the stuntman's helmet, in the flip, that car gets buckled. What did that poor old Mopig do to them?!!! Then the Viper gets beat, I seem to sense Chrysler Prejudice in this movie. And speaking of the movie, who writes this Sh*t, Hiam Saban? It had the mentality of the Power Rangers. Cool cars though, I have to admit. I had a tape once of a race in the Nevada desert from about '90. It's a unlimited race for the quickest time,I think it was about 25 miles, one way, with a little jog, but mostly straight. The car that won at the time was a '69 Camaro with daul Gale Banks turbochargers with a 454 big Block monstrousity, 700 horse or something. It went 220 through the trap at the end of the course. They had to push start up to 55 to get it going in first, because of the tall gears. I'm sure there is quite a few Japenese vehicles that could do 220, properly modified. BLAH. This message has been edited by mike stehr on 03-06-2002 at 05:45 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partaymon Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 Ouch! Fellers! It is certainly entertaining to read about the pros and cons of verious four-wheeled, glass and steel encrusted cages, but, truth be told, my (mostly stock) little Suzuki SV will roast your chestnuts in just about ANY trial short of an endurance race! Ease up forcryinoutloud! If I had to choose between the '72 Olds Starfire I used to own (V-8 442, 4 bbl carb) '89 Porshe 911 Cabrio (owned by a buddy of mine) or the Subaru WRX that I test drove the other day.. it'd be the Subaru, hands down. Why? Same reason I (we) own Klipsch-- best bang for the buck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNEtubaPLYR Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 dunno about all you but i love my Lincoln Continental. i can fit my scalas in the trunk and listen to them on the road!!! i don't like the cars you have to fold your self into 20 little peice just to fit in the seat. i like the big relaxed luxury cars. ill take my lincoln over a honda anyday..........and i don't think we should talk about ride either. with a fully automatic leveling system i can ride in style and still push a 1/4 mile in 13.45 sec. and pull a trailer! LOL. here comes the american luxury vs. (others) luxury. MAY THE BEST CAR WIN! LOL Rob ------------------ My 2 cents... I'll put it on your tab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QUiKSR20 Posted March 6, 2002 Share Posted March 6, 2002 13.45? with a stock 302 in that tank? are you jokein me? A lincoln contintinnetal wont run even close to that without alot of work. what year we talkin what mods? Come on US luxury vs Jap and Euro .. are you joking lol... Lets see BMW, Lexus, lincoln ------------------ Thanks, Daryl Gregg MY Home Theatre Page Sony STR-DE975 HT Reciever Sony DVP-NS400D DVD SB-3 Mains SC-1 Center Quintet Rears KSW-12 Sub AR Proseries Interconects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggs Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 hahaha, 13.45 in a Lincoln. That thing better be heavily modified. It might do 13.45 in the 1/8th though. The best bang for the buck IMO, is the LS1. Too bad they aren't going to be around anymore. ------------------ My hodge-podge of equipment Denon AVR-2800 KG-4 mains (too bad the rest of my speakers aren't this good) Polk C-175 center (it's ok) Infinity RS-10 Surrounds (suck) Audiosource SW-15 subwoofer (excellent sub for it's price) Pioneer DV333 DVD Sony 5 disc CD player All in a 12x12 apartment bedroom. "What?! I can't hear you!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 There is a guy on the Corvette Forum who has a number of heavily modified ZR-1's and Callaway Twin Turbo's. He also has a modified Cadillac STS that runs 13.6's, I believe. Here is a pic... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggs Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 Ahhh, the Corvette Forum. All I ever hear about them is the John Hennessey controversy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 I used to hang out there a lot (luvmy92), especially when I was modding my 92. They have a lot of cry babies there and it is nowhere near as civil as this board... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted March 7, 2002 Share Posted March 7, 2002 http://www.supercars.net/premium-imageexample2.htmlLooks like they raided the tailights out of a old Galaxy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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