Don't get too overhyped in the newest and best!!

[IndyKlipschFan]

Some rants from from my dealer... and some reading in magazines... and some hunches of my own.....

1080P was way oversold.. (you can get it in Sams club or Costco now... as well as your dealers...) Most do not get more than 720p 0r at best 1080i over a select cable box... AND they estimate most have no idea how to switch it or set it up properly.. I talked to my own Comcast rep and dealer... Most consumers all think because you have a HDTV, all the channels will look HD, and look great.. hahahahaha You need a HD box and a HDTV too. Don't forget again, Comcast is 720p- 1080i.

And, what will your projector do.... Native... THAT is where it should be set..

Will Feb 2009 really be the cut off date for HDTV... (You have to remember in 1982 I was at CES, they said in 5 years or less this would happen...and it is 2007 today! lol)

Not all HD content is really as good as the other channels HD content.. Picture wise..AND sound wise...

At CES IMO we will see probably a new picture format... greater than 1080p.. again will the movie makers adopt it as well??

HD vs Blue Ray? IMO we need to adopt one system for high def movies.. And make no mistake... copy protection is what this is really about! The problem is... look around, kids are pretty savvy today to break codes... Give us better and more films... You will make money..

LED's will replace bulbs in projectors making them run cooler, last a lot longer, and become very very small.... and silent!

Optical cable, is optical cable... if it works, it works... Spending more on some crazy brand is meaningless...

I am sure you have some thoughts and ideas looking into your own crystal ball too?

I will add more later!

[Guest srobak]

LED's will replace bulbs in projectors making them run cooler, last a lot longer, and become very very small.... and silent!

Optical cable, is optical cable... if it works, it works... Spending more on some crazy brand is meaningless...

I'd really like to see the LED thing - but I do think it is a ways off. That is a LOT of energy to get out of an LED to make it a worthwhile brightness, and it has to be absolutely precise in order to maintain picture quality, in this HD world. Un-equal light dispersion will be hugely exaggerated when blown up to 80 to 120 inches.

On the optical cable note... same for DVI, HDMI, and Digital Audio Coax. The quality of 1's and 0's do not change from point a to b.

[shepjk01]

1080p was oversold to an extent but do not forget that all the 1080p sets I can think of have better contrast, colors, sharpness and the important other areas of performance over their 720p or 1080i brethren. Also to take full advantage of the new hi def formats you need a display that accepts and properly displays 1080p. Also re guarding the adoption of one format I agree, but competition drives down prices. Without two formats battling it out the price of hd dvd/ blurays players would have never came down as much as they have.

The next format on the horizon is 4k which is a long way off for the consumer unless you have alot of money to spend.

In closing hopefully lasers replace both led and bulbs.

[Hunt]

Weren't we supposed to be driving "flying cars" to work by now - like the Jetsons?

I'm tired of adopting, just to have to change things out again. Like that SACD/DVD-A player I just had to have. Guess I'll just give up on Quadrophonic sound.

So just how long can this Blue Ray/ HD DVD battle rage on? I'm sitting this one out, until they are giving them away - wait, they are almost there already. Guess I'll have to break down soon and jump on the bandwagon.

When is HDMI 1.793,200 coming out? I hope it is in time for Terminator 45.

[Me Loves Khorns]

I usually like to wait a bit for the newest technology to come down in price, let them get the bugs out, then replace as older stuff goes out.

My best stuff, McIntosh, etc, is not based on latest greatest but time honored principles.

Things like DVD players and TV's seem to have less of a life span. By definition, newer tech will then be available.

Paul

[michael hurd]

One thing is for sure, I won't be jumping on the HD bandwagon any time soon. Competing formats, HDMI protocol revisions, early pieces not working properly or at all with newer units, makes for a VERY agitated consumer. Want to watch a particular movie on your HD display device.... oh WAIT, our player does not do that.... we need another one... [:@]

Also, glancing at the retail front here ( Thunder Bay On, is the closest ) Future Shop, has HD-dvd's.... mostly rehashed older movies... like "The Breakfast Club", with a few NEW movies rendered in TRUE HD.

Sorry, but it is the same with dvd's, where you had old VHS transfers for crying out loud, with no remixing, no LFE channel.... pure garbage. Passed off as "dvd" quality or whatever marketing term that is supposed to resemble.

When not watching a HD signal on a HD display, most look terrible, IMHO. Now with satellite CO's being forced to change compression schemes ( Mpeg-4 instead of Mpeg-2 ) things are only going to get worse. More crappy channels... soon there will be nothing worth watching. They will continue to downgrade the service by cramming as many highly compressed channels onto a single transponder as they can get away with. Sort of the video equivalent of a Mp-3..... and no one is complaining>?

Bring back the Big Ugly Dishes ( or BUD for short ) with great picture quality.... add HD content, and maybe more will jump off the fence. Cable companies are missing the boat as well, with most smaller areas ( think rural to small cities ) with little or NO HD support. Where does this leave the consumer? Amidst a pixelated and noisy picture trying to watch their local programing, while their latest and greatest display looks like an early color set fed by rabbit ears.

[michael hurd]

Competing formats does not drive the price down in my opinion. Marketing costs are higher, as each format is trying to "entice" the public. I don't think that Mac computers being available drives down the price of PC's. Does having for instance 3 different versions of repackaged minivans with different namebadges drive the price down? ( think back to Chrysler town & country, Dodge Caravan, and Plymouth Voyager )

They are all trying to appease the same market..... and how is having 3 similar products, with 6 different ( or more ) color options saving anyone money? If the industry had adopted ONE format, and had drive makers, film producers all on the same bandwagon, prices would be less than what they are now. Same goes for HDMI vs. DVI..... having support for both requires more software and costs more for the player manufacturer. This affects the end cost to the consumer.

[bigdaddy]

How long did it take dvd players to break the 200 barrier? The hd formats have only been out Less than 3 years(closer to 2 I think) and walmart sold a 99 dollar hd-dvd player.

As far as hd content on broadcasts go it will eventually all be 1080p but there are still not enough tvs out there for the broadcasters to justify it. When the deadline hits and more tvs are capable of 1080p the broadcasters will be forced to make their signal look as good as the other company. And I mean forced by the market where ratings will suffer because a picture doesn't look as good as another channel. On a side note hd is not always your friend, there is an actress on a show I watch that I always said was just gorgeous but on hd several skin blemishes show and really make her look harsh. Look at your local newscasters face you'll see what I mean.

[bigdaddy]

The copy protection issue is not what the format war is about. It's about the percentage the company that developed the format gets from disk sales. Toshiba made billions when their format for dvd was chosen and sony doesn't want that to happen again. I think it really is a moot point because a really good upscaling player will make an sd movie look fantastic on hd tv. the general public just doesn't care enough to replace all their old movies. I'm afraid these players will go the way of the laser disc and just be a footnote in the history of electronics. I have an hd dvd player but have not bought very many movies. I just use it for a good upconverting player. Which it is. Do I care which format wins? Not at all.

[customsteve01]

Roger,

On the optical cable coment.

You are right that optical cable is optical cable, BUT, where the end treminates it is very critical thea the glass is polished smooth and defect free. That does make a differance. What I am not saying is that the more expensive ones are better. With out the proper tools and magnafier I really don't know how a person would tell which one is better.

Steve

[Guest srobak]

of course the optics have to be clear and clean and perfect... otherwise it won't work period. It is an all or nothing technology. If you are getting sound, then it is working. Dirty or bad optics aren't going to randomly choose 1's and 0's to drop... if it will drop one, it will drop them all... it is not a dynamic medium.

[IndyKlipschFan]

That was going to be my reply on optical.... If it works, it works.. if not.. well....

[j-malotky]

I'll be waiting to see how processors handle uncompressed audio before I make the move to Blue Ray or whatever.

I really thought about getting a 1080 projector at my last bulb change. I'm glad I decided to wait.

I am really happy with my upscaling PC. With my latest software updates I was able to do a lot more color corrections and make my ancient projector look good again.

JM

[DrWho]

Hey John, I'm actually surprised by the improvement you can get with your fancy software upscaling...that's some very cool processing you've got going on.

For what it's worth, it's pretty much a go that in January 2008 the move to all digital TV will be enacted. The entire RF band is being redefined and it's gonna wreak havoc on some of the wireless audio systems. However, just because TV will be digital doesn't mean that it will be HD. Any digital channel would be capable of delivering HD though, but that requires the television station to be broadcasting in it.

[oldbuckster]

Indy, I've stated this for well over 2 years..............It's all about Piracy, copyright protection, whatever word you want to use...not giving the consumer better product

And, Aren't there 2 types of Optical Cables.........Glass, and clear plastic ? It's a question I'm asking here....................

[Guest srobak]

sure are. The difference is in efficiency. Ultra thin, glass fibers are what is used in the networking and telecomm industry to do extremely long hauls, and still be able to retain high signal strength. When I say extremely long hauls - understand that I am referring to hundreds to thousands of miles over something like an OC-12 circuit. They also use lasers for light transmission - not LEDs, as found in your home audio. With your home audio, you could easily do 2 laps around your house using a poly optical cable, and come back in the front door to your receiver, and still have perfect sound. The delay would be less than 1 millisecond. The data I send over optical circuits to/from our factories in Mexico and China arrives in approximately 30 and 95 milliseconds, respectively.

[shane_0_mac]

The overhyped 1080p thing is my rant as well. Also the 2009 all HD Channels is false. it was going to 2007 now its 2009 and its not all HD, its all digital. If it goes into effect in 2009 analog TV will have to have a digital box, but it is not HD. A non HD TV will still work. On the 1080P sure blue ray is awesome on a 1080p TV, but Dish, DirecTV and cable boxes are struggling to thier boxes to handle more 720p/1080i channels now. They are long ways off from having 1080p on the boxes. I have a 720p projector and for the price difference I am very happy with the choice I made. Because the majority of the time I am watching Dish and not Blue Ray.

[Rivendell61]

of course the optics have to be clear and clean and perfect... otherwise it won't work period. It is an all or nothing technology. If you are getting sound, then it is working. Dirty or bad optics aren't going to randomly choose 1's and 0's to drop... if it will drop one, it will drop them all... it is not a dynamic medium.

You are sending a signal to a converter, and presumably using the embedded clock, in which case an optical cable--even in short 'home use' lengths--certainly may degrade a 'digital' signal enough to be audible.
As with most things digital this subject rapidly becomes complex but the notion of perfect digital is frequently forfeited in the hardware/software reality--unless *lots* of care is taken.
The scale of this particular problem will ultimately depend on the quality of the D/A converter. My very minimal exposure to HT products (brief look at a high-endish $4k receiver) did not look encouraging re D/A quality--which is not a surprise.
Should anyone worry about this for watching movies? I doubt it.

Mark

[IndyKlipschFan]

I think we all agree, it is about copy write protection.. = $$ for the movie business. I use DVI, which is HDMI without the audio anyhow...

Cable providers, your right, are struggling with 720p to 1080i for now.... and NO PLANS AT ALL on a 1080p system for broadcasters. It is a shame too, in a way, but as soon as we get comfortable with 1080p we will have 2160p or 4320p I am sure... And at some point, for home the customer, he/ she will say, "Look it is good enough, and my wallet will only keep up with this nonsense for so long." Were getting close to that in my opinion, as the newness or "cool factor' for the "average Joe" to have this technology is now at his local COSTCO or Sams Club. ( good, but sad in a way too...) not to sound elitist, but it comes out that way... But if everyone has the "ideal best thing" it is no longer cool. Be like if everyone had a Rolex... what's the point of it being special and something you may have worked for or gotten in recognition?

I do not get mad anymore when I hear something that is just not true from my local kid at the electronics store or department I visit. In my 30's and younger I would have challenged them. Now I say really? Where did you learn that? I now give them the benefit of the doubt that he/ she is just miss informed or full of it...

I often ask them what THEIR dream system is...then again, ask WHY it is their dream system? Sometimes the systems are pretty crazy.

Sad thing is, without innovation, not to contradict myself,...... too... Perhaps there is something on the horizon, that in 5 years will blow us all away. If so.. I just hope Klipsch is tuned in and aware of it to share it with us too. Kinda like dolby , pro logic, dpl-IIex I enjoy today... Over stereo for movies... it is just awesome in 7.1. I would of never in my wildest dreams thought I would build a theater in my house to this extent. But I am so happy I did. []

[DrWho]

You are sending a signal to a converter,
and presumably using the embedded clock, in which case an optical
cable--even in short 'home use' lengths--certainly may degrade a
'digital' signal enough to be audible.

Do you have a
source for that claim? Modern CODECs have multiple clocks and even
detect the edges of the signal itself. They have their own little
buffer inside where I'm sure one could verify that the signal is always
bit for bit identical to the input. If I was feeling more energetic, I
could run any DAC through my lab bench to verify accuracy rates...but
it's really a lost cause. ANY errors are going to be drastically
apparent as clicks and pops. You can't get partial degredation of a
digital signal. I'm certainly not an expert on the subject, but I'm
doing two design projects right now that involve direct hardware and
software interfacing with Codecs, DACs and ADCs (from both TI and
Analog Devices). Digital accuracy certainly is not an issue. In fact,
if one were to claim that there is data loss, then one would need to
explain why the I2S or SPI standards have no problems perfectly
communicating digital information in just about every digital device on
the market...it's just serial data. Heck, how long has RS-232 been around?

As with most things
digital this subject rapidly becomes complex but the notion of perfect
digital is frequently forfeited in the hardware/software
reality--unless *lots* of care is taken. The scale of this particular
problem will ultimately depend on the quality of the D/A converter. My
very minimal exposure to HT products (brief look at a high-endish $4k
receiver) did not look encouraging re D/A quality--which is not a
surprise.

The D/A's being used in "HT products" are
identical to what you're going to find in most any over priced exotic
product. If there is any difference, it is probably going to be in the
analog output section for the unit - I've been told that usually the
biggest
difference is the cheap DC blocking electrolytic caps in series with
the output, but I suppose crappy opamps could be used too. IF really
really cheap D/A's are being used, then the
audible result is most likely going to be in the noise floor (usually
due to crappy dithering and anti-aliasing filters). Nevertheless,
D/A's are a totally different issue than digital input buffers...

In fact, I would be kinda impressed to see any digital transport
showing a loss of accuracy. All you gotta do is send a known digital
signal and then store the output of the receiving end into a buffer and
then compare the results. I could probably write a script that
automatically compares the difference just to see how long it takes
until a single error pops up...then I can store the sample and listen
to the audible result to see how much it matters.

All I gotta say is that if accuracy were a concern, then engineers
would have already come out with a solution that is 100% perfect. The
fact of the matter is that the issues involving serial data transfer
were solved in the 60's...

It's quite possible that I could be wrong about all of this, but I
would be much more interested in facts or demonstrations that I could repeat on my own. I think some of my profs would be interested too (one in particular who worked extensively on digital standards).