Construction time" HELP"

[chambers1517]

Well it's time to begin my theater. It will be 21' wide by 26' long. I will build a false at the front to recess my center Lascala into. I am also considering recessed L&R Lascalas. If I do this I will use my Khorns in the rear. I hate the thought of wasting the Khorns as surround speakers but they would dissapear in the back and I could hide my fronts behind cloth. I am also considering 4 18" subs in the front wall setup as Infinite Baffle. Another issue is my ceiling construction. I have over 8' of clearance overhead and above that is plumbing. I will need to drop down about 16" from the joist.I have heard a suspended ceiling is not ideal acoustically. To sheetrock will take lots of frameing. I considered a room within a room but I dont think I can span the 21' width. I need lots of help, any ideas about ceiling construction, Khorns in the rear or anything else.

[billybob]

Woww...lots of sound! What about acoustic ceiling tiles/panels? http://www.acousticalceilingtiles.com/

Or..... http://www.discountsoundproofing.com/curr_inventory.htm

[IndyKlipschFan]

Well
it's time to begin my theater. It will be 21' wide by 26' long. I will
build a false at the front to recess my center Lascala into. I am also
considering recessed L&R Lascalas. If I do this I will use my
Khorns in the rear. I hate the thought of wasting the Khorns as
surround speakers but they would dissapear in the back and I could hide
my fronts behind cloth. I am also considering 4 18" subs in the front
wall setup as Infinite Baffle. Another issue is my ceiling
construction. I have over 8' of clearance overhead and above that is
plumbing. I will need to drop down about 16" from the joist.I have
heard a suspended ceiling is not ideal acoustically. To sheetrock will
take lots of frameing. I considered a room within a room but I dont
think I can span the 21' width. I need lots of help, any ideas about
ceiling construction, Khorns in the rear or anything else.

Chambers1517

First off, Welcome to the forum. You will get some great ideas and listen to what people have done before you both good and bad I am sure.

Your room will sound great having 21' wide to work with. By all means if you have the room, (and you do), you can always look into building a false backs for your K horns and keep them up front! If you want to later put La Scala's up there... No problem!

IMO It would be a HUGE waste to use K horns for rears.. Especially if your gonna cross them over at 80 Htz for HT. The Bass on these will put a La Scala to shame. (Sad, but true!)

Look Into the THX ka1000 amp with 2 THX 120 subs. It is a fantastic match with the La Scala's and K horns too!

That said./.. Left center and Right with 3 La Scala's is pretty impressive.. (that is what I did too! ) Keep the K horns for someplace else in your house. Look for old beater La Scala's that you can hide behind a cloth. if you do this it will be seamless with timbre so things sound exactly as they should from all your speakers. Especially critical up front!

Unless you have a LOT of experience and knowledge with your sub ideas be careful. Some DIY projects really do not match well with Klipsch big boys. (You do not want a boom box bass sound when everything else is crystal clear?) You can spend a LOT of money and not get anything close to a well designed sub system!

I would insulate and drywall the ceiling. Most drop down tiles will rattle, not all of course, but most! Picky (Glen) in here used some amazing stuff to absorb sound in his, feel free to message him. His theater has been in many publications!

What about side surrounds???

[gaspr]

Ther are two issues you need to research. One is room acoustics...how the shape and size of the room you are constructing will affect the overall sound...this would include issues such as reflections off of walls and room modes etc. The second issue is sound isolation...is it a priority that the sound in your theater stays there, that it will not disturb others outside of your theater. One very informative website regarding sound isolation topics can be found here. Good luck and keep us up to date on your progress.

[Youthman]

One very informative website regarding sound isolation topics can be found here.

Wow, no wonder they call it Green Glue. It takes a lot of "green" to pay for the amount of tubes he would need. By my estimation (if he has 10 foot ceilings) it would cost him $2839.68 to put Green Glue on all four walls, ceiling and floor.

[chambers1517]

Thanks for the replies. I have posted pictures of my previous system on here before. I had the center behind an acoustic screen. The main reason I was thinking rear Khorns is because of the way they disappear into the corners compared to a Lascala. I will have a riser for the rear seating and the heigth of the Khorns would work really well in the rear. Like has been said, I hate to waste them in the rear but they would work out really well there. I probably won't be able to stand the thought of it though. I have heard an IB sub and nothing really compares. This would allow a good use for the cavity behind my front wall. I would build a box to set the Lascala or Lascalas into so I could seal the cavity behind the subs. This large cavity, about 21'x3'x9' allows the subs to play below 10hz. I need lots of help from you guys. I will keep everyone updated on progress. I was considering Green Glue but WOW, never knew it was so expensive.

[IndyKlipschFan]

Youthman... hahahah You have no idea to what extreems some go too... During my own fact finding mission I discovered Quiet Rock.

http://quietsolution.com/QRock545THX_dsheet.pdf

Hey man, I got the worlds only THX certified - qualified gypsum solution!

11 layers of blah blah blah...

and cost me.. blah blah blah....

OK, So does it work.. Yes. To a point.

I did a room within a room for my HT. At that time the QR 530 was over 120 dollars per 4x8 sheet! With no dealer in Indy I had to drive to get it too. Add the quiet seal... for everg gap... a LOT of MONEY!!!

That seemed to help as well. (it's very nice and there is little to no rumble upstairs..at normal movie volumes. Crank it up.. yes some is there..but again very little..and manageble.) And remember if you isolate all of that sound into the room to stay there... Your going to need a lot of treatment to stop it from bouncing around and diffuse some of it too.. This includes electrical outlets door openings, air pathways, it goes on and on. Another round of big $$ too from companies like Auralex as well! Trust me, it never ends..

Having said that... Save some cash for some kind of room treatment after your done. This is a better route, use of $$ than to blow it all on the isolation. If you have enough money to do the QuietRock 545 THX sheets anyhow... Build yourself another building on or next to your house.. That will really isolate it! LOL

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[chambers1517]

I have the 3 Lascalas sitting in the basement right now, The Khorns are in the livingroom. We use our projector and a wall between them for movie night for now but my wife says once the theater is finished they must go. The only wall in the livingroom suitable is 15' wide and probably not ideal anyway since there is a couch close to the left speaker.

[chambers1517]

I have alot to consider. We generally watch movies as a family and the kitchen is above the theater, so I really don't know how much isolation is necessary.

[IndyKlipschFan]

Check out our very own award winning theater expert....

Glenn and Verna are awesome people, and did a really great job too!

http://www.smallhouseweb.com/

[gaspr]

Wow, no wonder they call it Green Glue. It takes a lot of "green" to pay for the amount of tubes he would need. By my estimation (if he has 10 foot ceilings) it would cost him $2839.68 to put Green Glue on all four walls, ceiling and floor.

If he is in a basement situation, he will not have to do the floor. Sounds like his wall height may be closer to 8'...at full coverage...1300 sq/ft X .92= $1196.

Many users have reported very good performance using anywhere from a half rate to three quarter rates. As far as bang for your buck, it still outperforms anything else out there that I know of.

[TheSoundBroker]

Remember, there are itwo aspects to acoustics...Isolation to keep the sound IN the room, and acoustics to make the room and system sound better. Isolation is NOT always necessary or needed. It depends on the person, the design of the house, and the budget. If budget is limited, acoustics are ALWAYS first. There are things you can do that are not horrifyingly expensive but still help...such as staggered studs, dual drywall layers and using higher density Roxul Mineral wool insulation for the stud cavities instead of low density pink/white fiberglass. These don't cost that much more and will provide some level of isolation. Green Glue isn't cheap, but dollar per dollar is is exceptionally effective and WAY more cost effective (argueably more acoustically effective) than Quiet Rock. Quiet Rock is $$$, but allows you to get good isolation with a single layer of drywall. Also remember...if you isolation the heck out of the room, then put standard HVAC ducts in, you'll get nearly as much noise in your other rooms as if you had done no acoustic isolation at all. The HVAC ducting system must be isolated or it becomes a HUGE noise pathway to the rest of the house.

Speaker wise...if the K-Horns don't work in the room, sell them and use the money for something that does. To keep them just for the sake of having them doesn't make sense. Blasphemy? Maybe...but they either work or they don't work. They are not only overkill for surrounds, but it is very much arguable they will be a problem since to get coverage to the front seats with a rear raised platform will be difficult since the rear seatbacks may block the surround info. A trio of LaScalas with upgraded crossovers with Heresy's in the back and a really kick @ss sub system sounds absolutely incredible as a home theater. K-Horns are FABULOUS loudspeakers, but if they aren't appropriate, then they aren't appropriate.

As for Ultra 2 subs with a KA-1000 with the LaScalas, nice, but there is an even better match in the same price range...the Danley DTS-20. It is the ideal match in this setup being that everything will be behind a screen wall. The Danley is horn loaded so it just flat out WORKS with the big horn loaded Heritage. It is the only modestly sized horn sub that gets ultra deep and has the sound quality to truly match perfectly with Heritage. It is just under 8' tall and 20" on a side, but his setup is tailor made for it. The problem I see with IB sub setups is they give you a lot of deep bass, but they do lack a bit of that direct slam you in the chest feeling and a quad 18" IB setup may not keep up dynamically with a Heritage front array. If you can swing making everything horn loaded up front that is the ideal setup in my book.

[gaspr]

Just an FYI... just looked at the Quietrock website and I see they are now selling a product called Quietglue that looks to be very similar to Greenglue...it is priced quite a bit cheaper as well.

[redtop]

I used green glue in my 15' x 26' x 9' theater room. It was all I used for sound isolation. No risc clips or "room in a room" or foam tape on the studs. Just a standard 1/2" drywall - green glue - standard 1/2" drywall sandwich. It is great stuff, but IMO you do not need the full coverage as prescribed. I put mine on at a 67% rate and it was plenty. 100% is for guys that need to know they are getting the "ulitmate" performance in sound isolation. No sound leakage in the mid or high frequency range. I suspect that it would also be good enough at 50% for most rooms.

Hope that helps.

Brad

[TheSoundBroker]

Just an FYI... just looked at the Quietrock website and I see they are now selling a product called Quietglue that looks to be very similar to Greenglue...it is priced quite a bit cheaper as well.

Cool! Thanks for the Heads up on that one!

[gaspr]

After further research over at AVS Forum it looks like the Quietglue product is in fact inferior to the Green Glue product...