Arizona Dan Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I am trying to learn about the various options for refurbishing or upgrading a pair of Klipschorn. I have seen Bob Cries and ALK Engineering website. Also, Bob was kind enough to exchange a few emails with me. Does Dean Westcott have a website? If not, does anyone know his email address. I am not ready to buy any of the available kits yet, but would like to know what my options are. Are there other options that I should look at? Sincerely Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groomlakearea51 Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 "DeanG" on the forum; you can contact him by sending an email by way of the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Dean has a computer, but it's one of the older coal-fired models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Dan Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 Thanks for the replies. I will email Dean and maybe send him some fuel for the computer. How much does a lump of coal cost? Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erland Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Hi, I built a pair of DIY-Khorns last year. I used Klipsch plands for the woofer unit. The only mod I did, was to use a router to slightly round of the edges of the wooferboard. This was reccomended by a man who had built a few pairs. I used the Trachorns from Alkeng, with K55V driver for the squeaker, and the C125 from Bob Crites for the tweeter. XO is Alkeng's ES 400/5800 I have not looked back since the day I hooked them up. These are highend sound with a dynamic headroom I have never heard elswhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Dan Posted April 9, 2008 Author Share Posted April 9, 2008 Erland Your speakers look very nice. Good job. Does anybody have any opinions on how the Trachorns from Alkeng sound compared to the K-400, or any other stock Khorn? Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Does anybody have any opinions on how the Trachorns from Alkeng sound compared to the K-400, or any other stock Khorn? I've never heard them but was going to buy them when I had my Khorns. Virtually everyone that has posted a comment about hearing them has loved them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Erland Your speakers look very nice. Good job. Does anybody have any opinions on how the Trachorns from Alkeng sound compared to the K-400, or any other stock Khorn? Dan I do....................................... I've now run Al's Trachorns with a variety of different drivers, including the stock K55s and various other Altec drivers and different networks, passive and active. I've also compared them to the stock K400 as well as other potential upgrades (511s, which I run in the back with my Belles). Trachorns have an effortless quality about them that simply sounds less congested than K400s. More separation of instruments and much less pinching at higher volumes. Another surprise was their excellence in reproducing higher frequencies. I decided to upgrade drivers to new Altec 902s and was going to pair the 902s up with the 511 horns to run two-way. I ended up running the 902s with the Trachorns and they handle the top end nicely, without beaming in my room. I highly recommend Trachorns. I've moved on since then to deal with the known mid-bass issues and the speakers are now where I want them - and I am finally not left wanting more. But all of that stuff is a little bit beyond the scope of your question. Good luck and happy shopping. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Dan Posted April 9, 2008 Author Share Posted April 9, 2008 Hi Erland Thanks for your post. Sounds like you have your speakers tuned just the way you want them. As you might of guessed, you have me interested in the other mods that you have made. Please tell me more about known mid-bass issues and how you corrected them (or better yet, how one could correct them in a Khorn). Maybe I forgot already, but what twetters, crossover, and bass driver are you using. Sorry for all of the questions, but this speaker stuff is fun. Sincerely Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Dan, I think your last post was directed at me - and I'm Carl, not Erland - so I will respond accordingly. If your last post was only directed towards Erland - I apologize for interjecting again. I have used a variety of different horns and drivers with the Khorn. The only constant has been the drivers in the bass bin - the K33s. PWK designed the Khorn bass bin to be optimized with a certain type bass driver - with certain parameters and small excusion. Absent going to a particularly expensive TAD bass driver (forum member Maron runs them), changing out your woofers in your bass bins will be a step backwards. That leaves your top end to play with. Before I get much more into further mods, let me say that I ran a somewhat similar setup to what Erland is running - for quite awhile and really liked it. I used Al's Trachorns with the stock K55 Klipsch mid drivers with Al's extreme slope top ends (ES5800) and gentle slope bottoms (APT12-350). I also changed to Eminence tweeters (APT-50), the same drivers that Erland referenced as Bob Crites tweeters. The sound on the upper end was clean and smooth, and the speakers sounded excellent. Erland's crossovers are the same, with the exception that he has Al's extreme slope bottoms - with an extreme slope in between the bass bin and the squawker. They are about $600 more than the crossover that I opted for, but surely are much better on the bottom end. Going the direction that Erland went is probably the best bang for the buck without going radical (see below). I highly recommend the Trachorns, the Eminence tweeters (Bob Crites' tweeters), and a nice ALK crossover, and you will be shocked at the improvement. In fact, I have a very similar setup like that with my rear Belles, with the exception that I regularly switch back and forth between the Eminence tweeters and some much more expensive JBL 2404 tweeters. My rear modded Belles sound very, very good. But, I just could not stop playing around with a fantastic-sounding speaker - and started foolin' around again. I've had a number of different Klipsch and non-Klipsch speakers in my setup over the years, and even after adding Trachorns, ALK crossovers, and better tweeters, I wanted some more oompf in the mid-bass from my Khorns that I had with some of the other speakers. That led me to go a somewhat radical direction - - and I'm not sure that you are prepared to follow down that road - but I'll share my thoughts anyway. After all, its just a fun hobby, right? The mid-bass situation that I referred to is the known inability of the Khorn bass bin to hit well up into 400 or 500 hz cleanly and smoothly. This is apparently a function of the way the bass bin was designed - you can only get so high frequency response out of it. Many much smarter than I have measured, etc. a drop off and a ragged response starting out about 200 hz upwards. If you browse or search the forum archives, primarily in the updates and mods section (as well as two-channel), you will see that the limited top end of the bass bin poses a problem for the mid driver upgrades because 1 inch drivers such as the K55 will only go down to 400 hz (to mate up with the bass bin) if the driver is phenolic (as opposed to aluminum or titanium which will not go down low enough). Al arranged for the Trachorn because it was one horn designed for a one-inch driver that would go down to 400 hz. And, just for historical sake, it was apparently the limitations of the Khorn that inspired PWK and Roy Delgado to design the Jubilee bass bin as a replacement – since it can go much higher and much smoother – and therefore open up your options on the top end. And I will say one thing for the extreme slope bottoms that Al Klappenberger offers (such as the crossover Erland uses), that would help minimize any bass/mid bass issue since both the bass bin and the squawker would come to a screeching halt at 400 hz (120 db slope). So, that's something to think about. Some others have upgraded to larger throated drivers (2 inch) that can go down to 400 hz (and lower) much easier, but then you face the problem of finding a good horn to mate. There are some good, but expensive newer options if you go to a larger throat driver as well as some older horns (Altec 288) that would allow you to take the mid horn lower than even 400 – and perhaps down to 200-300 to deal with the mid-bass issue of the Khorn bass bin. For example, I believe that Cut-throat uses 288 horns with his Khorns (placing them on top) Forum member John Warren has a website that outlines some of his known solutions to the mid bass problem that some others have used. Look here: http://home.comcast.net/~wooferboy/The_Audio_Engineering_League.html Inspired by some of John’s designs, I went a different direction. First, I replaced the K55 Klipsch driver with new Altec 902 drivers and started using an active crossover (more flexibility). That allowed me at first to convert the Khorns to two-ways (and eliminate the tweeters), by crossing over at 500 hz. But, as I said, the Khorns do not really make it up to 500 hz very well. I then took two traditional 8 inch JBL pro drivers – mounted them in a cabinet on top of the Khorn bass bin (with the upper horn on top of that). I ran the Khorn bass up to about 300 hz, then the 8 inch mid drivers from 300 to 1000 and then the upper Trachorn from 1000 all the way up to 15000+. I built a nice fascia around the woofers so that it looked pretty nice, and it was an upgrade over my last version of the Khorn. But, finally, I took an existing pair of Forte Is that I had in my system, and integrated the Fortes bass woofers (12 inch) with my Khorn instead of the 8 inch JBL drivers. I now use the Khorn bass bin to about 200 hz, then use the Forte drivers (and enclosure) from 200 hz to about 700 hz and then use the Trachorn from 700 hz all the way upwards. It works for me (see the photo in my avatar), and I got a bit carried away.......... Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Erland, Beautiful work. Hard to imagine Khorns sounding any better than what you've got. In my experience the CT125 and trachorn are very nice mods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob H Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Dan if you are interested in building or replacing the mid range horn let me know I just finished building one for my klipschorn. Contact me and i can send you some pictures. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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