McIntosh C220 tube preamp

[mdbrien]

I have the chance to buy a McIntosh C220 tube preamp. Can anyone share their thoughts on this preamp. I was looking at the C2200, but I was told the C220 is very close to the C2200. Any comments are greatly appreciately.

[jwc]

I've only heard good things of the C220. Not sure whether it bests the C2200 or not. The phono stage on the C220 could potentially be better. The C2200 Phono stage got suboptimal reviews.

There are a bunch of combos out there with C220 and the MC252.

jc

[rcarlton]

C2200 trumps the C220. It is next up on the food chain.

Only one lukewarm discussion about the phono stage in Stereophile:

"The C2200's line-stage performance was superb. I couldn't ask for more. But what of the phono stage?

Less than stellar.

Though it's nice to know it's there, many C2200 owners will have no
need of a phono stage; it probably made no sense for McIntosh to pull
out all the stops and provide exceptional phono performance. As it was,
I thought the C2200's phono performance was very good—quite acceptable,
in fact. Just not stellar.

I'll put things in perspective: You
could pay $4500 for a line-level preamp, not get any phono stage at
all, and have nowhere near the convenience features offered by the
McIntosh C2200. You could pay $4500 or more for a phono stage alone.
What the C2200 offers for "free" is not at all bad.

But, using my Shure Ultra 500 in the SME 309 arm on an AR ES-1 turntable, I preferred the sound of my long-term reference, the AcousTech PH-1
phono stage, available for $1200 directly from Acoustic Sounds. I heard
tighter, better-defined bass. The C2200's phono stage sounded slightly
muddy by comparison. I heard better definition and detail overall, a
more natural, more spacious presentation of, er, space. More "there"
there, in other words.

A lot might depend on your phono needs.
If LPs are a secondary, occasional source, then the C2200's phono stage
might be all you need. The sound was full-bodied and dynamic. But
compared with the AcousTech, the C2200's onboard phono stage seemed to
accentuate surface noise. The grooves seemed quieter with the
AcousTech.

Remember, if you don't use the C2200's phono stage,
the four tubes in the phono section won't turn on. And if you
reconfigure the phono section as an additional line-level input,
they'll never turn on. You could easily add an outboard phono preamp and let the onboard phono section lie dormant.

The C2200's phono stage provides 40dB of gain. The phono sensitivity is
given as 4.4mV for 2.5V output at 1kHz. In addition to moving-magnet
cartridges, you can probably use most medium- to high-output
moving-coils. Using the additional gain available from the line stage,
you might even get by with a low-output (maybe below 1mV) MC. But you'd
probably have to put up with some noise. Of course, you could always
use a step-up transformer.

Meanwhile, I'm not sure I ever
heard the outboard AcousTech phono stage sound better, which is a
tribute to the C2200's line-stage quality."

[Guest " "]

Either one will do just fine. Check audiogon for price comparison. If you find the price you're paying is run of the mill, best bet would be to find a dealer to do buisness with. There are trade in advantages and support senerio's that migh make paying a few hundred more worth the peice of mind.

My take is that you're not going to get into dramatic differences until you jump into a split chasis topology and pure balanced architecture.

[jwc]

Ron. I surely am not knocking the C2200. I have heard more comments about the phono stage than just the stereophile review. I initially heard dissatisfaction of the phono stage from Audiokarma comments.

Other than that.....people love it. I haven't heard it or the C220.....

I dropped the whole preamp thing when I got the MDA1000.

jc

[whatever55]

I have the 220 along with a 252 driving a pair of Jubilees.

From what I read the 220 phono is an improvement over the 2200, but I still had to replace the phono tubes with Russian ones. The stock tubes had noise when the volume was at 30. With the new tunbes I can go over 60 before I hear any noise.

If you have any questions please contact me.

[mark1101]

Through a couple of strokes of luck, help from buddy JWC, plus some smart shopping I now have the C220 / MC-252 combo running on my avatar speakers. The first thing I did was turn the phono tubes OFF. No need for those. []. A very nice feature of the C220 so you don't just burn up tubes you won't be using.

I honestly never thought I would have equipment of this caliber even though it is modest Mcintosh stuff. I had the MC252 for a few weeks before the C220, and was using the Peach preamp with it. That combo was a warm detailed pairing that had me pretty much completely satisfied. Excellent. The MC252 hid among the tubes never exposing that it is s/s. However, I wound up with the C220 afterward and that addition has been quite an improvement in clarity, dynamics (punch), and imaging. It really was a startling change. I still love my Peach and have no plans to sell it. A classic for sure, and to anchor a strong second system as long as I have this Mac combo. The C220 is not as warm sounding as the Peach, but has a definite tube sound and this Mac combo has integrated perfectly with my Jolida JD-100 tubed CDP. The C220 / MC-252 is just so smooth and sweet to listen to. Ultra detailed from top to bottom with no fatigue whatsoever. So much more detail than anything I've had in my home but a very tube like sound in every way.

Once again, I have to thank JWC for steering me right and bumping me upward. Honestly, and I've said it before.....I was never crazy about the Mac sound. I always thought it was too dark. But these new units have all the top end anyone could ever want and my speakers, particularly my TAD HF drivers are responding with detail I have never had before.

[jwc]

Thanks for the kind words Mark.

I looked into this for awhile.....I demoed the C2300 and the C220. Both sound the same and many on the audiokarma forum have said somewhat of the same thing.

I don't recommend the stock tubes. Marks has the NOS tele smooth plates in the line stage. Many have raved about how well those sound in the MAC preamps.

I've heard the C2200 many times in the MAC store...but never demoed it at home.

jc

[Boxx]

C2200 trumps the C220. It is next up on the food chain.

Only one lukewarm discussion about the phono stage in Stereophile:

"The C2200's line-stage performance was superb. I couldn't ask for more. But what of the phono stage?

Less than stellar.

Though it's nice to know it's there, many C2200 owners will have no need of a phono stage; it probably made no sense for McIntosh to pull out all the stops and provide exceptional phono performance. As it was, I thought the C2200's phono performance was very good—quite acceptable, in fact. Just not stellar.

I'll put things in perspective: You could pay $4500 for a line-level preamp, not get any phono stage at all, and have nowhere near the convenience features offered by the McIntosh C2200. You could pay $4500 or more for a phono stage alone. What the C2200 offers for "free" is not at all bad.

But, using my Shure Ultra 500 in the SME 309 arm on an AR ES-1 turntable, I preferred the sound of my long-term reference, the AcousTech PH-1 phono stage, available for $1200 directly from Acoustic Sounds. I heard tighter, better-defined bass. The C2200's phono stage sounded slightly muddy by comparison. I heard better definition and detail overall, a more natural, more spacious presentation of, er, space. More "there" there, in other words.

A lot might depend on your phono needs. If LPs are a secondary, occasional source, then the C2200's phono stage might be all you need. The sound was full-bodied and dynamic. But compared with the AcousTech, the C2200's onboard phono stage seemed to accentuate surface noise. The grooves seemed quieter with the AcousTech.

Remember, if you don't use the C2200's phono stage, the four tubes in the phono section won't turn on. And if you reconfigure the phono section as an additional line-level input, they'll never turn on. You could easily add an outboard phono preamp and let the onboard phono section lie dormant.

The C2200's phono stage provides 40dB of gain. The phono sensitivity is given as 4.4mV for 2.5V output at 1kHz. In addition to moving-magnet cartridges, you can probably use most medium- to high-output moving-coils. Using the additional gain available from the line stage, you might even get by with a low-output (maybe below 1mV) MC. But you'd probably have to put up with some noise. Of course, you could always use a step-up transformer.

Meanwhile, I'm not sure I ever heard the outboard AcousTech phono stage sound better, which is a tribute to the C2200's line-stage quality."

I agree.. I use my C2200, with pair of McIntosh 275's and the product is outstanding.